General & Others "Even Whitebeard" Why Context Matters
- Thread starter Rosella.Fiamingo
- Start date
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I don’t understand how that line “even Whitebeard” could be interpreted as Big Mom admitting inferiority... It’s clear by that she means she considered Whitebeard as the bigger threat among her rivals if she was to fight against the other Yonko, that is bigger than Shanks and Kaido, but not necessarily bigger than her.
And yeah, it’s clear Yonkos don’t fight each other because the loses would be too many and they’d be heavily weakened from a fight given how balanced each other’s forces are, and that’d open the door to a third force (be it another Yonko or the WG) to attack them while they’re weak.
Now, I won’t get into who’s stronger than who, because I frankly don’t care.
And yeah, it’s clear Yonkos don’t fight each other because the loses would be too many and they’d be heavily weakened from a fight given how balanced each other’s forces are, and that’d open the door to a third force (be it another Yonko or the WG) to attack them while they’re weak.
Now, I won’t get into who’s stronger than who, because I frankly don’t care.
The point is that "even WB" is just a small tassel in a way larger picture and that picture is called "WB was the ruler of his age". Imo BM considers too WB the past ruler but even if we say she doesn't consider it it matters not since everybody else recognizes WB as the forner ruler:
We have multiple statements that WB was the strongest man alive and the age after Roger had his name until he died. Buggy said he was the closest to the one piece and strongest man, Garp hyped him too as the ruler of the seas, Sengoku as somebody who can destroy the world, then Oda himself put him in action in Marineford and indeed he was undoubtely the strongest by a good portion, at the end of Marineford there is also BB proclaming that now this is his age (him and his crew killed WB and he even stole his df). Then after the time skip we have Doffy speech which explains how now that the former ruler is dead all the other major powers are on the move to try to seize the throne and then lastly there is this small tassel you mentioned aka "even WB" by BM. It doesn't matter if BM considered him stronger than her or not, he simply was and everybody (imo BM too) recognizes it.
We have multiple statements that WB was the strongest man alive and the age after Roger had his name until he died. Buggy said he was the closest to the one piece and strongest man, Garp hyped him too as the ruler of the seas, Sengoku as somebody who can destroy the world, then Oda himself put him in action in Marineford and indeed he was undoubtely the strongest by a good portion, at the end of Marineford there is also BB proclaming that now this is his age (him and his crew killed WB and he even stole his df). Then after the time skip we have Doffy speech which explains how now that the former ruler is dead all the other major powers are on the move to try to seize the throne and then lastly there is this small tassel you mentioned aka "even WB" by BM. It doesn't matter if BM considered him stronger than her or not, he simply was and everybody (imo BM too) recognizes it.
I've been meaning to make this thread for months now so here it is.
I have seen far too many posters who misinterpret a certain panel in which Linlin proclaims that she would have already attainted the title of Pirate King if not for Lola's rebellion and failure to marry Loki.
This panel in which she proclaims that with the connections she would have secured with Elbaf, that she would have been able to crush her other Great Pirate Rivals in Kaido, Shanks and "Even Whitebeard" My problem is not with the panel itself but rather the somewhat extreme conclusions people make. Many in the One Piece fandom use Linlin's proclamation as "proof" and "evidence" that she is a weaker combatant than Newgate and that she puts him above herself. The goal of this thread is to dispel such notions because with an application of context, logic and an analysis of Linlin's own personality, it is rather evident that she does not declare herself individually inferior to Edward Newgate.
Part 1: Context And Great Power Politics
First, it is imperative to apply context in almost every panel when it comes to any power scaling discussions especially with Oda who time and time again discards power levels to progress plot. Context in this instance is necessary because any proclamations that Linlin considers herself individually weaker than Newgate misses the fact that the whole conversation and premise of her statement was about all out war against her rivals.
I don't want to particularly delve deep on specific theories of international relations but, a commonly notion held by realists, rationalists, idealists and other schools of thought lying outside and within these primary schools is that great powers do not fight each other. The explanations as to why Great Powers at least in post WWII world do not engage in full blown wars and resort to low level proxy wars are many but, one of the more popular explanations is that wars between great powers is far too costly. Costs in this context can range from human life, infrastructure, resources and even global political image. This particular explanation is very in line with the One Piece World and the maintenance of the status quo between the Great Powers.
The Ace novel elaborates on the power dynamic in the world and why the Great Pirate Crews do not engage each other in an all out war. The answer to this is because it is simply too costly. It is important to understand that the Great Pirate era is far different from the old Era in that individual power and combat strength means far less than in the bygone Era. In this Great Pirate age, the strongest in the world cannot freely conquer the world or showcase their strength because other Great powers and pirates serve as checks and balances. What these checks and balances mean is that if a full scale war is to occur between two Yonko crews, the winner of the conflict would have taken immense loses in all types of resources. The power balance exists because these Great Pirate Crews balance one another and are in perpetual conflict.
The Great pirate crews are in a stalemate because their individual strength is not enough to tip the balance of power. This is why Kaido for all his bloodlust and savagery, is not concentrating on making himself stronger but rather, the entirety of his forces through the use of artificial devil fruits and the mass production of arms. Linlin, in all her distrust for all that is not blood is willing to accept people not related to her by blood into her pirate crew, and seeks cloning and giantification technology to enhance the strength of her forces. Teach, even with two devil fruits is constantly seeking other devil fruit powers to bolster the power of his crew.
So, what does all of this mean? It means that Linlin's proclamation has nothing to do with individual strength. For Linlin to become the Pirate King, she would have to defeat Kaido and the entirety of his forces in an all out war, do the same to Shanks, and do the same to Newgate. As I have previously highlighted, to face 1 single Yonko crew would leave any emperor depleted to such an extent that other Emperors would quickly capitalize on the opportunity to acquire territory and erase the victor of the war. No matter how strong Linlin is individually, with her current forces, she is not beating 3 Yonko crews consecutively. The aforementioned does not even take into account the forces of the World Government which would obviously be another road block for her to overcome on her way to becoming the Pirate King.
Linlin knows something about Elbaf that we the readers do not know yet. The giants may have access to an ancient weapon or, the giant army is simply that strong. But, what the connection to Elbaf would permit her is the ability to take all the loses she would take from each rival in an all out war, and still have enough military might to overcome the WG and become the Pirate King. The entire premise of her statement with any application of context and logic makes it clear her words had nothing to do with individual strength. (I have my opinions as to why Linlin is the strongest character in the one Piece verse) but, her statement has nothing to do with individual power like many assume. The only thing that we might be able to assume or the only leap of logic we can make from her words, is that she might consider Newgate are bigger threats to her goals than Shanks and Kaido.
The explanation as to why she considers Newgate a bigger threat is made rather clear in the Ace Novel. The novel states that WB had the largest fleet/crew of any of the Emperors and had the most territory. Manpower and the overall strength of one's forces is very important in this Era where individual might yields very little because there is little freedom to exercise it. A larger fleet = a bigger fighting force. Now, I would like to quickly dismiss any attempt at dismissing the importance of numbers and manpower. A counter argument might state "COC goes Brrr" But, as we have seen in this arc and in past arcs like the MF War, numbers are important. If numbers were not important, the Marines wouldn't employ so many soliders. The Emperors would make no attempt to expand the sizes of their armies, etc etc. Additionally, more territories means a greater pool of resources to draw from in an all out war. It is also worth noting that due to Linlin's distrust of anyone that is not her family,a large majority of her army in the form of chess soldiers are actually soul constructs rather than actual human soldiers. Her unwillingness to trust non relatives likely inherently restricts the size of her forces. So, with all this in mind, we can somewhat understand why Linlin might consider Newgates a bigger threat than Shanks and Kaido but again, such considerations say nothing about who is the stronger combatant.
Part 2: Linlin's Personality
First and foremost, Linlin is a conqueror and one of the Great Pirates in the history of the One Piece world. She stands at the pinnacle of strength with the other great pirates of past and present. Reaching such heights is not suited for those who accept inferiority in any capacity. If we use any competitive endeavor as an example, it is rare to see the very best in their field proclaim that they are inferior to their rivals. To reach the highest level, one must truly believe they are the very best and can accomplish anything they set their mind to. Any proclamation that Linlin views herself as inferior to Newgate based on this panel directly contradicts her personality and character portrayal.
1. We witnessed Kaido threaten Linlin with death because she said she wanted to come capture Luffy in Wano. Despite Kaido's warning and Linlin coming without her full force, she balked at his threat and continued to levy her threats to his strongest subordinates even in chains. She fear no one and has no respect for anyone if that respect clashes with her interests. Kaido is a character who has greater "hype" surrounding his individual might than Newgate yet, she does not hesitate to engage him in a war even while outnumbered.
2. Linlin is an egomaniac who believes her actions are just no matter what she does. She is willing to subjugate others if it means realizing her dream of a Utopia for all races. She openly insults Katakuri who is her strongest subordinate for even thinking of defending her because she is just "lowly son" She insults Jinbei for "using strength" against her and that he is just a "mere shark" and has no right to think that he can match her in a contest of strength. There are other instances of this behavior but, these two instances are the most stark and highlight just highly she thinks of herself in regards to individual strength.
The personality that Oda has given Linlin thus far which is one of supreme self confidence bordering on hubris lies in direct contradiction with any notion that she assumed inferiority to Newgate. No Great Pirate reaches the status that Linlin has attained with the notion that they are individually inferior to any rival pirate.
Part 3: Conclusion
Every time someone says "Even Whitebeard", it is necessary to understand the context and true implications of such a statement. The application of even the barest of context and logic contradict the notion that Linlin's statement is one that admits inferiority to Edward Newgate. First and foremost, such a conclusion ignores the clear power dynamics that exist in the world and reduces all conflicts between great powers as 1 v 1's. A war between Great Powers is more than a 1 v 1. Such a war requires the use of all latent and manifest resources thus, it is illogical to assume that when Linlin claims she would crush her rivals, she was only speaking about individual combat. Second, any regard her personality would further invalidate such claims because it is out of character for an egomaniac like Linlin who considers herself just, righteous and the most powerful in all measures of powers to assume any level of inferiority.
I have seen far too many posters who misinterpret a certain panel in which Linlin proclaims that she would have already attainted the title of Pirate King if not for Lola's rebellion and failure to marry Loki.
"The Panel In Question"]
This panel in which she proclaims that with the connections she would have secured with Elbaf, that she would have been able to crush her other Great Pirate Rivals in Kaido, Shanks and "Even Whitebeard" My problem is not with the panel itself but rather the somewhat extreme conclusions people make. Many in the One Piece fandom use Linlin's proclamation as "proof" and "evidence" that she is a weaker combatant than Newgate and that she puts him above herself. The goal of this thread is to dispel such notions because with an application of context, logic and an analysis of Linlin's own personality, it is rather evident that she does not declare herself individually inferior to Edward Newgate.
Part 1: Context And Great Power Politics
First, it is imperative to apply context in almost every panel when it comes to any power scaling discussions especially with Oda who time and time again discards power levels to progress plot. Context in this instance is necessary because any proclamations that Linlin considers herself individually weaker than Newgate misses the fact that the whole conversation and premise of her statement was about all out war against her rivals.
I don't want to particularly delve deep on specific theories of international relations but, a commonly notion held by realists, rationalists, idealists and other schools of thought lying outside and within these primary schools is that great powers do not fight each other. The explanations as to why Great Powers at least in post WWII world do not engage in full blown wars and resort to low level proxy wars are many but, one of the more popular explanations is that wars between great powers is far too costly. Costs in this context can range from human life, infrastructure, resources and even global political image. This particular explanation is very in line with the One Piece World and the maintenance of the status quo between the Great Powers.
The Ace novel elaborates on the power dynamic in the world and why the Great Pirate Crews do not engage each other in an all out war. The answer to this is because it is simply too costly. It is important to understand that the Great Pirate era is far different from the old Era in that individual power and combat strength means far less than in the bygone Era. In this Great Pirate age, the strongest in the world cannot freely conquer the world or showcase their strength because other Great powers and pirates serve as checks and balances. What these checks and balances mean is that if a full scale war is to occur between two Yonko crews, the winner of the conflict would have taken immense loses in all types of resources. The power balance exists because these Great Pirate Crews balance one another and are in perpetual conflict.
The Great pirate crews are in a stalemate because their individual strength is not enough to tip the balance of power. This is why Kaido for all his bloodlust and savagery, is not concentrating on making himself stronger but rather, the entirety of his forces through the use of artificial devil fruits and the mass production of arms. Linlin, in all her distrust for all that is not blood is willing to accept people not related to her by blood into her pirate crew, and seeks cloning and giantification technology to enhance the strength of her forces. Teach, even with two devil fruits is constantly seeking other devil fruit powers to bolster the power of his crew.
So, what does all of this mean? It means that Linlin's proclamation has nothing to do with individual strength. For Linlin to become the Pirate King, she would have to defeat Kaido and the entirety of his forces in an all out war, do the same to Shanks, and do the same to Newgate. As I have previously highlighted, to face 1 single Yonko crew would leave any emperor depleted to such an extent that other Emperors would quickly capitalize on the opportunity to acquire territory and erase the victor of the war. No matter how strong Linlin is individually, with her current forces, she is not beating 3 Yonko crews consecutively. The aforementioned does not even take into account the forces of the World Government which would obviously be another road block for her to overcome on her way to becoming the Pirate King.
Linlin knows something about Elbaf that we the readers do not know yet. The giants may have access to an ancient weapon or, the giant army is simply that strong. But, what the connection to Elbaf would permit her is the ability to take all the loses she would take from each rival in an all out war, and still have enough military might to overcome the WG and become the Pirate King. The entire premise of her statement with any application of context and logic makes it clear her words had nothing to do with individual strength. (I have my opinions as to why Linlin is the strongest character in the one Piece verse) but, her statement has nothing to do with individual power like many assume. The only thing that we might be able to assume or the only leap of logic we can make from her words, is that she might consider Newgate are bigger threats to her goals than Shanks and Kaido.
The explanation as to why she considers Newgate a bigger threat is made rather clear in the Ace Novel. The novel states that WB had the largest fleet/crew of any of the Emperors and had the most territory. Manpower and the overall strength of one's forces is very important in this Era where individual might yields very little because there is little freedom to exercise it. A larger fleet = a bigger fighting force. Now, I would like to quickly dismiss any attempt at dismissing the importance of numbers and manpower. A counter argument might state "COC goes Brrr" But, as we have seen in this arc and in past arcs like the MF War, numbers are important. If numbers were not important, the Marines wouldn't employ so many soliders. The Emperors would make no attempt to expand the sizes of their armies, etc etc. Additionally, more territories means a greater pool of resources to draw from in an all out war. It is also worth noting that due to Linlin's distrust of anyone that is not her family,a large majority of her army in the form of chess soldiers are actually soul constructs rather than actual human soldiers. Her unwillingness to trust non relatives likely inherently restricts the size of her forces. So, with all this in mind, we can somewhat understand why Linlin might consider Newgates a bigger threat than Shanks and Kaido but again, such considerations say nothing about who is the stronger combatant.
Part 2: Linlin's Personality
First and foremost, Linlin is a conqueror and one of the Great Pirates in the history of the One Piece world. She stands at the pinnacle of strength with the other great pirates of past and present. Reaching such heights is not suited for those who accept inferiority in any capacity. If we use any competitive endeavor as an example, it is rare to see the very best in their field proclaim that they are inferior to their rivals. To reach the highest level, one must truly believe they are the very best and can accomplish anything they set their mind to. Any proclamation that Linlin views herself as inferior to Newgate based on this panel directly contradicts her personality and character portrayal.
1. We witnessed Kaido threaten Linlin with death because she said she wanted to come capture Luffy in Wano. Despite Kaido's warning and Linlin coming without her full force, she balked at his threat and continued to levy her threats to his strongest subordinates even in chains. She fear no one and has no respect for anyone if that respect clashes with her interests. Kaido is a character who has greater "hype" surrounding his individual might than Newgate yet, she does not hesitate to engage him in a war even while outnumbered.
2. Linlin is an egomaniac who believes her actions are just no matter what she does. She is willing to subjugate others if it means realizing her dream of a Utopia for all races. She openly insults Katakuri who is her strongest subordinate for even thinking of defending her because she is just "lowly son" She insults Jinbei for "using strength" against her and that he is just a "mere shark" and has no right to think that he can match her in a contest of strength. There are other instances of this behavior but, these two instances are the most stark and highlight just highly she thinks of herself in regards to individual strength.
The personality that Oda has given Linlin thus far which is one of supreme self confidence bordering on hubris lies in direct contradiction with any notion that she assumed inferiority to Newgate. No Great Pirate reaches the status that Linlin has attained with the notion that they are individually inferior to any rival pirate.
Part 3: Conclusion
Every time someone says "Even Whitebeard", it is necessary to understand the context and true implications of such a statement. The application of even the barest of context and logic contradict the notion that Linlin's statement is one that admits inferiority to Edward Newgate. First and foremost, such a conclusion ignores the clear power dynamics that exist in the world and reduces all conflicts between great powers as 1 v 1's. A war between Great Powers is more than a 1 v 1. Such a war requires the use of all latent and manifest resources thus, it is illogical to assume that when Linlin claims she would crush her rivals, she was only speaking about individual combat. Second, any regard her personality would further invalidate such claims because it is out of character for an egomaniac like Linlin who considers herself just, righteous and the most powerful in all measures of powers to assume any level of inferiority.
If Yonkos could defeat each other in 1v1 fights then they would have already done it but it's not that simple, Yonkos are all overconfident in their personal strength Kaido said that he will kill Big Mom while Big Mom said that you can try it, it's clear that nether of them don't take each other seriously and think that they are the strongest.
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I've been meaning to make this thread for months now so here it is.
I have seen far too many posters who misinterpret a certain panel in which Linlin proclaims that she would have already attainted the title of Pirate King if not for Lola's rebellion and failure to marry Loki.
This panel in which she proclaims that with the connections she would have secured with Elbaf, that she would have been able to crush her other Great Pirate Rivals in Kaido, Shanks and "Even Whitebeard" My problem is not with the panel itself but rather the somewhat extreme conclusions people make. Many in the One Piece fandom use Linlin's proclamation as "proof" and "evidence" that she is a weaker combatant than Newgate and that she puts him above herself. The goal of this thread is to dispel such notions because with an application of context, logic and an analysis of Linlin's own personality, it is rather evident that she does not declare herself individually inferior to Edward Newgate.
Part 1: Context And Great Power Politics
First, it is imperative to apply context in almost every panel when it comes to any power scaling discussions especially with Oda who time and time again discards power levels to progress plot. Context in this instance is necessary because any proclamations that Linlin considers herself individually weaker than Newgate misses the fact that the whole conversation and premise of her statement was about all out war against her rivals.
I don't want to particularly delve deep on specific theories of international relations but, a commonly notion held by realists, rationalists, idealists and other schools of thought lying outside and within these primary schools is that great powers do not fight each other. The explanations as to why Great Powers at least in post WWII world do not engage in full blown wars and resort to low level proxy wars are many but, one of the more popular explanations is that wars between great powers is far too costly. Costs in this context can range from human life, infrastructure, resources and even global political image. This particular explanation is very in line with the One Piece World and the maintenance of the status quo between the Great Powers.
The Ace novel elaborates on the power dynamic in the world and why the Great Pirate Crews do not engage each other in an all out war. The answer to this is because it is simply too costly. It is important to understand that the Great Pirate era is far different from the old Era in that individual power and combat strength means far less than in the bygone Era. In this Great Pirate age, the strongest in the world cannot freely conquer the world or showcase their strength because other Great powers and pirates serve as checks and balances. What these checks and balances mean is that if a full scale war is to occur between two Yonko crews, the winner of the conflict would have taken immense loses in all types of resources. The power balance exists because these Great Pirate Crews balance one another and are in perpetual conflict.
The Great pirate crews are in a stalemate because their individual strength is not enough to tip the balance of power. This is why Kaido for all his bloodlust and savagery, is not concentrating on making himself stronger but rather, the entirety of his forces through the use of artificial devil fruits and the mass production of arms. Linlin, in all her distrust for all that is not blood is willing to accept people not related to her by blood into her pirate crew, and seeks cloning and giantification technology to enhance the strength of her forces. Teach, even with two devil fruits is constantly seeking other devil fruit powers to bolster the power of his crew.
So, what does all of this mean? It means that Linlin's proclamation has nothing to do with individual strength. For Linlin to become the Pirate King, she would have to defeat Kaido and the entirety of his forces in an all out war, do the same to Shanks, and do the same to Newgate. As I have previously highlighted, to face 1 single Yonko crew would leave any emperor depleted to such an extent that other Emperors would quickly capitalize on the opportunity to acquire territory and erase the victor of the war. No matter how strong Linlin is individually, with her current forces, she is not beating 3 Yonko crews consecutively. The aforementioned does not even take into account the forces of the World Government which would obviously be another road block for her to overcome on her way to becoming the Pirate King.
Linlin knows something about Elbaf that we the readers do not know yet. The giants may have access to an ancient weapon or, the giant army is simply that strong. But, what the connection to Elbaf would permit her is the ability to take all the loses she would take from each rival in an all out war, and still have enough military might to overcome the WG and become the Pirate King. The entire premise of her statement with any application of context and logic makes it clear her words had nothing to do with individual strength. (I have my opinions as to why Linlin is the strongest character in the one Piece verse) but, her statement has nothing to do with individual power like many assume. The only thing that we might be able to assume or the only leap of logic we can make from her words, is that she might consider Newgate are bigger threats to her goals than Shanks and Kaido.
The explanation as to why she considers Newgate a bigger threat is made rather clear in the Ace Novel. The novel states that WB had the largest fleet/crew of any of the Emperors and had the most territory. Manpower and the overall strength of one's forces is very important in this Era where individual might yields very little because there is little freedom to exercise it. A larger fleet = a bigger fighting force. Now, I would like to quickly dismiss any attempt at dismissing the importance of numbers and manpower. A counter argument might state "COC goes Brrr" But, as we have seen in this arc and in past arcs like the MF War, numbers are important. If numbers were not important, the Marines wouldn't employ so many soliders. The Emperors would make no attempt to expand the sizes of their armies, etc etc. Additionally, more territories means a greater pool of resources to draw from in an all out war. It is also worth noting that due to Linlin's distrust of anyone that is not her family,a large majority of her army in the form of chess soldiers are actually soul constructs rather than actual human soldiers. Her unwillingness to trust non relatives likely inherently restricts the size of her forces. So, with all this in mind, we can somewhat understand why Linlin might consider Newgates a bigger threat than Shanks and Kaido but again, such considerations say nothing about who is the stronger combatant.
Part 2: Linlin's Personality
First and foremost, Linlin is a conqueror and one of the Great Pirates in the history of the One Piece world. She stands at the pinnacle of strength with the other great pirates of past and present. Reaching such heights is not suited for those who accept inferiority in any capacity. If we use any competitive endeavor as an example, it is rare to see the very best in their field proclaim that they are inferior to their rivals. To reach the highest level, one must truly believe they are the very best and can accomplish anything they set their mind to. Any proclamation that Linlin views herself as inferior to Newgate based on this panel directly contradicts her personality and character portrayal.
1. We witnessed Kaido threaten Linlin with death because she said she wanted to come capture Luffy in Wano. Despite Kaido's warning and Linlin coming without her full force, she balked at his threat and continued to levy her threats to his strongest subordinates even in chains. She fear no one and has no respect for anyone if that respect clashes with her interests. Kaido is a character who has greater "hype" surrounding his individual might than Newgate yet, she does not hesitate to engage him in a war even while outnumbered.
2. Linlin is an egomaniac who believes her actions are just no matter what she does. She is willing to subjugate others if it means realizing her dream of a Utopia for all races. She openly insults Katakuri who is her strongest subordinate for even thinking of defending her because she is just "lowly son" She insults Jinbei for "using strength" against her and that he is just a "mere shark" and has no right to think that he can match her in a contest of strength. There are other instances of this behavior but, these two instances are the most stark and highlight just highly she thinks of herself in regards to individual strength.
The personality that Oda has given Linlin thus far which is one of supreme self confidence bordering on hubris lies in direct contradiction with any notion that she assumed inferiority to Newgate. No Great Pirate reaches the status that Linlin has attained with the notion that they are individually inferior to any rival pirate.
Part 3: Conclusion
Every time someone says "Even Whitebeard", it is necessary to understand the context and true implications of such a statement. The application of even the barest of context and logic contradict the notion that Linlin's statement is one that admits inferiority to Edward Newgate. First and foremost, such a conclusion ignores the clear power dynamics that exist in the world and reduces all conflicts between great powers as 1 v 1's. A war between Great Powers is more than a 1 v 1. Such a war requires the use of all latent and manifest resources thus, it is illogical to assume that when Linlin claims she would crush her rivals, she was only speaking about individual combat. Second, any regard her personality would further invalidate such claims because it is out of character for an egomaniac like Linlin who considers herself just, righteous and the most powerful in all measures of powers to assume any level of inferiority.
I have seen far too many posters who misinterpret a certain panel in which Linlin proclaims that she would have already attainted the title of Pirate King if not for Lola's rebellion and failure to marry Loki.
"The Panel In Question"]
This panel in which she proclaims that with the connections she would have secured with Elbaf, that she would have been able to crush her other Great Pirate Rivals in Kaido, Shanks and "Even Whitebeard" My problem is not with the panel itself but rather the somewhat extreme conclusions people make. Many in the One Piece fandom use Linlin's proclamation as "proof" and "evidence" that she is a weaker combatant than Newgate and that she puts him above herself. The goal of this thread is to dispel such notions because with an application of context, logic and an analysis of Linlin's own personality, it is rather evident that she does not declare herself individually inferior to Edward Newgate.
Part 1: Context And Great Power Politics
First, it is imperative to apply context in almost every panel when it comes to any power scaling discussions especially with Oda who time and time again discards power levels to progress plot. Context in this instance is necessary because any proclamations that Linlin considers herself individually weaker than Newgate misses the fact that the whole conversation and premise of her statement was about all out war against her rivals.
I don't want to particularly delve deep on specific theories of international relations but, a commonly notion held by realists, rationalists, idealists and other schools of thought lying outside and within these primary schools is that great powers do not fight each other. The explanations as to why Great Powers at least in post WWII world do not engage in full blown wars and resort to low level proxy wars are many but, one of the more popular explanations is that wars between great powers is far too costly. Costs in this context can range from human life, infrastructure, resources and even global political image. This particular explanation is very in line with the One Piece World and the maintenance of the status quo between the Great Powers.
The Ace novel elaborates on the power dynamic in the world and why the Great Pirate Crews do not engage each other in an all out war. The answer to this is because it is simply too costly. It is important to understand that the Great Pirate era is far different from the old Era in that individual power and combat strength means far less than in the bygone Era. In this Great Pirate age, the strongest in the world cannot freely conquer the world or showcase their strength because other Great powers and pirates serve as checks and balances. What these checks and balances mean is that if a full scale war is to occur between two Yonko crews, the winner of the conflict would have taken immense loses in all types of resources. The power balance exists because these Great Pirate Crews balance one another and are in perpetual conflict.
The Great pirate crews are in a stalemate because their individual strength is not enough to tip the balance of power. This is why Kaido for all his bloodlust and savagery, is not concentrating on making himself stronger but rather, the entirety of his forces through the use of artificial devil fruits and the mass production of arms. Linlin, in all her distrust for all that is not blood is willing to accept people not related to her by blood into her pirate crew, and seeks cloning and giantification technology to enhance the strength of her forces. Teach, even with two devil fruits is constantly seeking other devil fruit powers to bolster the power of his crew.
So, what does all of this mean? It means that Linlin's proclamation has nothing to do with individual strength. For Linlin to become the Pirate King, she would have to defeat Kaido and the entirety of his forces in an all out war, do the same to Shanks, and do the same to Newgate. As I have previously highlighted, to face 1 single Yonko crew would leave any emperor depleted to such an extent that other Emperors would quickly capitalize on the opportunity to acquire territory and erase the victor of the war. No matter how strong Linlin is individually, with her current forces, she is not beating 3 Yonko crews consecutively. The aforementioned does not even take into account the forces of the World Government which would obviously be another road block for her to overcome on her way to becoming the Pirate King.
Linlin knows something about Elbaf that we the readers do not know yet. The giants may have access to an ancient weapon or, the giant army is simply that strong. But, what the connection to Elbaf would permit her is the ability to take all the loses she would take from each rival in an all out war, and still have enough military might to overcome the WG and become the Pirate King. The entire premise of her statement with any application of context and logic makes it clear her words had nothing to do with individual strength. (I have my opinions as to why Linlin is the strongest character in the one Piece verse) but, her statement has nothing to do with individual power like many assume. The only thing that we might be able to assume or the only leap of logic we can make from her words, is that she might consider Newgate are bigger threats to her goals than Shanks and Kaido.
The explanation as to why she considers Newgate a bigger threat is made rather clear in the Ace Novel. The novel states that WB had the largest fleet/crew of any of the Emperors and had the most territory. Manpower and the overall strength of one's forces is very important in this Era where individual might yields very little because there is little freedom to exercise it. A larger fleet = a bigger fighting force. Now, I would like to quickly dismiss any attempt at dismissing the importance of numbers and manpower. A counter argument might state "COC goes Brrr" But, as we have seen in this arc and in past arcs like the MF War, numbers are important. If numbers were not important, the Marines wouldn't employ so many soliders. The Emperors would make no attempt to expand the sizes of their armies, etc etc. Additionally, more territories means a greater pool of resources to draw from in an all out war. It is also worth noting that due to Linlin's distrust of anyone that is not her family,a large majority of her army in the form of chess soldiers are actually soul constructs rather than actual human soldiers. Her unwillingness to trust non relatives likely inherently restricts the size of her forces. So, with all this in mind, we can somewhat understand why Linlin might consider Newgates a bigger threat than Shanks and Kaido but again, such considerations say nothing about who is the stronger combatant.
Part 2: Linlin's Personality
First and foremost, Linlin is a conqueror and one of the Great Pirates in the history of the One Piece world. She stands at the pinnacle of strength with the other great pirates of past and present. Reaching such heights is not suited for those who accept inferiority in any capacity. If we use any competitive endeavor as an example, it is rare to see the very best in their field proclaim that they are inferior to their rivals. To reach the highest level, one must truly believe they are the very best and can accomplish anything they set their mind to. Any proclamation that Linlin views herself as inferior to Newgate based on this panel directly contradicts her personality and character portrayal.
1. We witnessed Kaido threaten Linlin with death because she said she wanted to come capture Luffy in Wano. Despite Kaido's warning and Linlin coming without her full force, she balked at his threat and continued to levy her threats to his strongest subordinates even in chains. She fear no one and has no respect for anyone if that respect clashes with her interests. Kaido is a character who has greater "hype" surrounding his individual might than Newgate yet, she does not hesitate to engage him in a war even while outnumbered.
2. Linlin is an egomaniac who believes her actions are just no matter what she does. She is willing to subjugate others if it means realizing her dream of a Utopia for all races. She openly insults Katakuri who is her strongest subordinate for even thinking of defending her because she is just "lowly son" She insults Jinbei for "using strength" against her and that he is just a "mere shark" and has no right to think that he can match her in a contest of strength. There are other instances of this behavior but, these two instances are the most stark and highlight just highly she thinks of herself in regards to individual strength.
The personality that Oda has given Linlin thus far which is one of supreme self confidence bordering on hubris lies in direct contradiction with any notion that she assumed inferiority to Newgate. No Great Pirate reaches the status that Linlin has attained with the notion that they are individually inferior to any rival pirate.
Part 3: Conclusion
Every time someone says "Even Whitebeard", it is necessary to understand the context and true implications of such a statement. The application of even the barest of context and logic contradict the notion that Linlin's statement is one that admits inferiority to Edward Newgate. First and foremost, such a conclusion ignores the clear power dynamics that exist in the world and reduces all conflicts between great powers as 1 v 1's. A war between Great Powers is more than a 1 v 1. Such a war requires the use of all latent and manifest resources thus, it is illogical to assume that when Linlin claims she would crush her rivals, she was only speaking about individual combat. Second, any regard her personality would further invalidate such claims because it is out of character for an egomaniac like Linlin who considers herself just, righteous and the most powerful in all measures of powers to assume any level of inferiority.
1- was talking about 5 years ago ... when Kaido didn't had flying 6 and 1 supernova and 500 Zoan , Shanks was JUST a Yonko
2- she didn't knew WB is sick
so ... while Prime Beard MOST likely is strongest of all Yonko ... it don't means beating him was truly hardest 5 years ago let alone 2
very evident when BM attacked Kaido.
I am fairly certain that he was the most powerful pirate on the sea.
what I do not think is that this translates to all 1v1 fights or vs everyone.
think about Enel in skypiea. he was undeniable the strongest being there. yet Luffy could defeat him.
because of a hard counter, sure, but think of a counter less severe. still a factor that most do not even consider.
WSM means -> beats everyone and anyone 1v1...
hard disagree
I am fairly certain that he was the most powerful pirate on the sea.
what I do not think is that this translates to all 1v1 fights or vs everyone.
think about Enel in skypiea. he was undeniable the strongest being there. yet Luffy could defeat him.
because of a hard counter, sure, but think of a counter less severe. still a factor that most do not even consider.
WSM means -> beats everyone and anyone 1v1...
hard disagree
Until the day of his death WB was the strongest pirate.
But of course there are people especially some downplayers
who discredit this conversation of Sengoku and Kong because they say "WAS" It is obvious that they will say was because that conversation is after the war where WB had already died lol They are not having that conversation with WB alive ...
Incredible that that has to be explained.
Regarding Big mom what she says I take it that it is something that she believes but it is not that it is a fact and I mean that it was seen how WB defeated giants with one hit and Jozu could lift something much bigger and heavier than several giants In addition to the fact that no giant that I remember to date has shown anything to classify it as top tier,medium or even low tier. Maybe someone mentioned Dorry and Brogy but they were subdued by Mr 3 so ...
But of course there are people especially some downplayers
who discredit this conversation of Sengoku and Kong because they say "WAS" It is obvious that they will say was because that conversation is after the war where WB had already died lol They are not having that conversation with WB alive ...
Incredible that that has to be explained.
Regarding Big mom what she says I take it that it is something that she believes but it is not that it is a fact and I mean that it was seen how WB defeated giants with one hit and Jozu could lift something much bigger and heavier than several giants In addition to the fact that no giant that I remember to date has shown anything to classify it as top tier,medium or even low tier. Maybe someone mentioned Dorry and Brogy but they were subdued by Mr 3 so ...
Until the day of his death WB was the strongest pirate.
But of course there are people especially some downplayers
who discredit this conversation of Sengoku and Kong because they say "WAS" It is obvious that they will say was because that conversation is after the war where WB had already died lol They are not having that conversation with WB alive ...
Incredible that that has to be explained.
Regarding Big mom what she says I take it that it is something that she believes but it is not that it is a fact and I mean that it was seen how WB defeated giants with one hit and Jozu could lift something much bigger and heavier than several giants In addition to the fact that no giant that I remember to date has shown anything to classify it as top tier,medium or even low tier. Maybe someone mentioned Dorry and Brogy but they were subdued by Mr 3 so ...
But of course there are people especially some downplayers
who discredit this conversation of Sengoku and Kong because they say "WAS" It is obvious that they will say was because that conversation is after the war where WB had already died lol They are not having that conversation with WB alive ...
Incredible that that has to be explained.
Regarding Big mom what she says I take it that it is something that she believes but it is not that it is a fact and I mean that it was seen how WB defeated giants with one hit and Jozu could lift something much bigger and heavier than several giants In addition to the fact that no giant that I remember to date has shown anything to classify it as top tier,medium or even low tier. Maybe someone mentioned Dorry and Brogy but they were subdued by Mr 3 so ...
Big Mom > Marineford Whitebeard is obvious LOL
She looks pretty outmatched by the Gura of someone already as potent as Whitebeard, since her physical asset is not remotely as good despite her supreme physical strenght.
She can only rely on better durability and devil fruit hax.
But her devil fruit might not be so useful if she doesn't get enough time to cast it. It would depend on how many heart attacks Whitebeard gets.
