Questions & Mysteries Explain to me why people don't think Sabo should beat Akainu

[Peenix]

You're injecting some of your own subjective opinion here. Law from his own mouth told us that he wasn't capable of taking Doffy down but put his trust in the man who could, he wanted Doffy destroyed but admittedly couldn't achieve it on his own. And I think you're missing my core point here, I'm not saying that it was bad writing for Luffy to defeat Doffy, in fact one can argue that many of the villains he defeats should have been taken down by someone else who was far more directly affected by said villain, but this in and of itself proves why Luffy will defeat Akainu. Luffy is the physical manifestation of freedom and hope, he vanquishes darkness with light only HE possesses as the Sun God, he is the hero who doesn't desire to be one. Looking at Akainu, as you stated in your post, he represents ultimate restriction, an absolute sense of Justice that has no room for freedom or independence, it promises the people that they will for eternity be held and controlled by the Nobles, who are the true darkness that plagues the current world. It is only befitting thematically that Luffy destroys Akainu who represents something polar opposite to Luffy. So this idea that you speak of is not something Oda will apply to Luffy since HE is the hero of this story and no one else.

Thing is though, I don't think that Akainu is going to be the Big Bad of an arc, especially considering that Imu exists. In Wano, Law and Kidd were the ones who defeated Big Mom while Luffy defeated Kaido. I think that's what will happen in the World Government arc, Luffy defeats Imu while Sabo defeats Akainu.

It's been repeatedly implied that, with the exception of Garp, none of the Admirals are as strong as the Emperors. People might try to argue that this isn't the case, but it was made very clear with Shanks scaring off Ryokugyu that the audience is not supposed to see the Emperors and the Admirals as being on the same level. I really don't see Akainu being one of Luffy's opponents, despite what headcanons people may have about his strength.

 

[Hamlette]

Thing is though, I don't think that Akainu is going to be the Big Bad of an arc, especially considering that Imu exists. In Wano, Law and Kidd were the ones who defeated Big Mom while Luffy defeated Kaido. I think that's what will happen in the World Government arc, Luffy defeats Imu while Sabo defeats Akainu.

It's been repeatedly implied that, with the exception of Garp, none of the Admirals are as strong as the Emperors. People might try to argue that this isn't the case, but it was made very clear with Shanks scaring off Ryokugyu that the audience is not supposed to see the Emperors and the Admirals as being on the same level. I really don't see Akainu being one of Luffy's opponents, despite what headcanons people may have about his strength.

Imu exists as the ultimate figure of evil this doesn't mean he's a powerful fighter. The Admirals were stated to be the strongest force the Navy posses, string that line with the line of Luffy needing to surpass the Naval Admirals to become the pirate king and you have a more or less confirmed confrontation between Luffy and the strongest living Marine, yes, Akainu will be the strongest Marine. We kind of devolved from Thematic talk to very subjective powerscaling takes, Shanks "scaring" off Ryokyugu can be easily explained in a way that doesn't paint the Admiral as a weakling but even IF we entertained the idea of him being scared because of some lacking of power this has nothing to do with Akainu, he's the Fleet Admiral, someone Greenbull looks up to and admires, he's the face of the Navy, holding them both to the same standard of power is incorrect.

Big mom in no way shape or form is the face of the Yonkos, nor does her ideals, philosophies and dreams stand as polar opposite to Luffys. Kaido stood as the ultimate villain of Wano, the land he ruled, the land that was to be opened to welcome Joyboy and Kaido stood as the tyrannical force that wanted to take him down; it was a fight destined to happen. When the straw hats face the Navy, the man leading the forces will be non other than Akainu, he'll be looking to finish the job he failed to accomplish back in Marineford, fighting to keep the system that Luffy is destined to destroy. the D clan are the ones who oppose the Gods and the Navy are those who protect them, Luffy is destined to take down Akainu who is the face of the Navy.

 

[Peenix]

Imu exists as the ultimate figure of evil this doesn't mean he's a powerful fighter. The Admirals were stated to be the strongest force the Navy posses, string that line with the line of Luffy needing to surpass the Naval Admirals to become the pirate king and you have a more or less confirmed confrontation between Luffy and the strongest living Marine, yes, Akainu will be the strongest Marine. We kind of devolved from Thematic talk to very subjective powerscaling takes, Shanks "scaring" off Ryokyugu can be easily explained in a way that doesn't paint the Admiral as a weakling but even IF we entertained the idea of him being scared because of some lacking of power this has nothing to do with Akainu, he's the Fleet Admiral, someone Greenbull looks up to and admires, he's the face of the Navy, holding them both to the same standard of power is incorrect.

Big mom in no way shape or form is the face of the Yonkos, nor does her ideals, philosophies and dreams stand as polar opposite to Luffys. Kaido stood as the ultimate villain of Wano, the land he ruled, the land that was to be opened to welcome Joyboy and Kaido stood as the tyrannical force that wanted to take him down; it was a fight destined to happen. When the straw hats face the Navy, the man leading the forces will be non other than Akainu, he'll be looking to finish the job he failed to accomplish back in Marineford, fighting to keep the system that Luffy is destined to destroy. the D clan are the ones who oppose the Gods and the Navy are those who protect them, Luffy is destined to take down Akainu who is the face of the Navy.

But couldn't it be said that, if Imu and Akainu were to go down in the same arc, that it would make more sense for Imu to be defeated by Luffy? Akainu protects the "gods" of the world as the head of the Navy, but Imu is above the gods. If Imu didn't exist, then I would agree that Luffy would probably be the one to defeat him, but Akainu isn't the one highest up on the totem pole here. Yes it's possible that Imu isn't strong, but we don't have enough information to say one way or another. The admirals are the strongest force in the navy, but Imu isn't part of the navy.

Luffy's ideals contrast Imu, but I feel that Sabo as a revolutionary contrasts Akainu's ideals more than Luffy's does. Especially when, again, Sabo has the devil fruit of the man that Akainu killed.

 

[Philosoraptor]

It makes no sense for a weaker affinity to overpower the stronger affinity. If Oda writes around it, it'll be complete BS

 

[MonsterKaido]

Imu exists as the ultimate figure of evil this doesn't mean he's a powerful fighter. The Admirals were stated to be the strongest force the Navy posses, string that line with the line of Luffy needing to surpass the Naval Admirals to become the pirate king and you have a more or less confirmed confrontation between Luffy and the strongest living Marine, yes, Akainu will be the strongest Marine. We kind of devolved from Thematic talk to very subjective powerscaling takes, Shanks "scaring" off Ryokyugu can be easily explained in a way that doesn't paint the Admiral as a weakling but even IF we entertained the idea of him being scared because of some lacking of power this has nothing to do with Akainu, he's the Fleet Admiral, someone Greenbull looks up to and admires, he's the face of the Navy, holding them both to the same standard of power is incorrect.

Big mom in no way shape or form is the face of the Yonkos, nor does her ideals, philosophies and dreams stand as polar opposite to Luffys. Kaido stood as the ultimate villain of Wano, the land he ruled, the land that was to be opened to welcome Joyboy and Kaido stood as the tyrannical force that wanted to take him down; it was a fight destined to happen. When the straw hats face the Navy, the man leading the forces will be non other than Akainu, he'll be looking to finish the job he failed to accomplish back in Marineford, fighting to keep the system that Luffy is destined to destroy. the D clan are the ones who oppose the Gods and the Navy are those who protect them, Luffy is destined to take down Akainu who is the face of the Navy.

Akainu's form of justice is very different from WG/Imu sama. Akainu literally doesn't like CD rules. Defeating him isn't the same as defeating WG at all. Imu sama represents ultimate tyranny and domination for past 700 years. They are going to be a fighter.

 

[Hamlette]

But couldn't it be said that, if Imu and Akainu were to go down in the same arc, that it would make more sense for Imu to be defeated by Luffy? Akainu protects the "gods" of the world as the head of the Navy, but Imu is above the gods. If Imu didn't exist, then I would agree that Luffy would probably be the one to defeat him, but Akainu isn't the one highest up on the totem pole here. Yes it's possible that Imu isn't strong, but we don't have enough information to say one way or another. The admirals are the strongest force in the navy, but Imu isn't part of the navy.

Luffy's ideals contrast Imu, but I feel that Sabo as a revolutionary contrasts Akainu's ideals more than Luffy's does. Especially when, again, Sabo has the devil fruit of the man that Akainu killed.

But you see, the Navy are the powerful protectors of the Nobles, Gorosei and Imu. I see it as a powerful force created to protect those who control the world and operate from the shadows. Think of them like the Knights and Soldiers who protect the Kings and Aristocrats. Imu and the Gorosei sit up on their throwns in the holy land while the Navy are there to fight the fights they are incapable of. You see a King is more powerful than a Knight, but he can never best him in battle. Any functional system must have a proper distribution of labor, if the most powerful fighting forces the World Government has are not actually serving their function it is a waste of power. Those assigned to protect are required to reach a certain level of strength before allowed to be protectors, a standard of power is expected of them because they are placed to fight as the metaphorical swords and shields of the weaker Nobles.

Post automatically merged: Apr 10, 2023

Akainu's form of justice is very different from WG/Imu sama. Akainu literally doesn't like CD rules. Defeating him isn't the same as defeating WG at all. Imu sama represents ultimate tyranny and domination for past 700 years. They are going to be a fighter.

The world government follows Absolute Justice. A totalitarian structure which serves to preserve the status quo through any force necessary even the elimination of innocents, this is literally in line with Akainus philosophy. Akainu may disagree with the Gorosei at times but he ultimately serves them and they told him as much. Akainu turns a blind eye to the CD's tyranny, in fact he would send forces to destroy those who mess with them.

 

[Himura]

Sabo is from revolution army whose enemies are Celestial Dragons.
CP-0 are ones who Sabo didn't want to face in DR.
CP-0 are ones who attacked revolutionary base.
CP-0 are ones who protect Celestial Dragons.
Sabo said he will not avenge Ace's death.

Akainu hates pirates, not RA.

I don't see any reason Sabo should fight Akainu. Anyway Akainu is on another level. In the MF war Akainu mentioned Dreagon several times. Dragon vs Akainu is much more reasonable and their levels and positions are suitable for each other

 

[Peenix]

But you see, the Navy are the powerful protectors of the Nobles, Gorosei and Imu. I see it as a powerful force created to protect those who control the world and operate from the shadows. Think of them like the Knights and Soldiers who protect the Kings and Aristocrats. Imu and the Gorosei sit up on their throwns in the holy land while the Navy are there to fight the fights they are incapable of. You see a King is more powerful than a Knight, but he can never best him in battle. Any functional system must have a proper distribution of labor, if the most powerful fighting forces the World Government has are not actually serving their function it is a waste of power. Those assigned to protect are required to reach a certain level of strength before allowed to be protectors, a standard of power is expected of them because they are placed to fight as the metaphorical swords and shields of the weaker Nobles.

The thing is though, we know nothing at all about Imu. Yes it's possible that Imu isn't strong, but it's also possible that Imu is strong. Right now, there's nothing suggesting one or the other

 

[Hamlette]

The thing is though, we know nothing at all about Imu. Yes it's possible that Imu isn't strong, but it's also possible that Imu is strong. Right now, there's nothing suggesting one or the other

But I fail to see what that changes. We would still have the most personal conflict present between Luffy and any other character present and left unresolved. It would be tragically poor writing if Akainu and Luffy never met again, it would also be impossible to pull them away from each other if they did meet. The only Villian Luffy would be compelled to actually kill is Akainu, there is a gold mine of character exploration there to be had for both Luffy and Akainu that there is no way Oda would abandon it.

 

[Peenix]

But I fail to see what that changes. We would still have the most personal conflict present between Luffy and any other character present and left unresolved. It would be tragically poor writing if Akainu and Luffy never met again, it would also be impossible to pull them away from each other if they did meet. The only Villian Luffy would be compelled to actually kill is Akainu, there is a gold mine of character exploration there to be had for both Luffy and Akainu that there is no way Oda would abandon it.

The personal connection though is equally present with both Luffy and Sabo, so either way it really isn't getting ignored

 

[Hamlette]

The personal connection though is equally present with both Luffy and Sabo, so either way it really isn't getting ignored

Luffy is the main character, he was physically present during Aces death at the hands of Akainu, left with a permanent scar that aches at the mention of the mans name. Akainus action almost pushed Luffy to give up on everything, he literally pushed him beyond any other character, even ignoring the more nuanced, thematic and symbolic aspects of this fight, there is no denial that Luffy has a far more personal vendetta against Akainu than Sabo on top of being the protagonist so he will of course take precedence, just like he always does even against enemies who are not as personally connected to him as they are to others.

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

 

[Peenix]

Luffy is the main character, he was physically present during Aces death at the hands of Akainu, left with a permanent scar that aches at the mention of the mans name. Akainus action almost pushed Luffy to give up on everything, he literally pushed him beyond any other character, even ignoring the more nuanced, thematic and symbolic aspects of this fight, there is no denial that Luffy has a far more personal vendetta against Akainu than Sabo on top of being the protagonist so he will of course take precedence, just like he always does even against enemies who are not as personally connected to him as they are to others.

But the thing is, I think that goes against the tone of Luffy's fights that have been established with Gear 5. Oda clearly wants Luffy's fights to lean more towards being goofy and whimsical. I think the vendetta there with Akainu might be a point in favor of Sabo vs Akainu, as the more serious nature of the conflict feels like it would better fit Sabo's powers than it would Luffy's

 

[Hamlette]

But the thing is, I think that goes against the tone of Luffy's fights that have been established with Gear 5. Oda clearly wants Luffy's fights to lean more towards being goofy and whimsical. I think the vendetta there with Akainu might be a point in favor of Sabo vs Akainu, as the more serious nature of the conflict feels like it would better fit Sabo's powers than it would Luffy's

Luffys fights have always had an element of comedy to them this isn't really a new thing, you see him morphing his body into all sorts of weird shapes to get an advatange over his enemy, Gear 5 just takes that to the next level. But just like Luffy had comedy within his Arlong and Crocodile fights (which had dead serious endings), when we got to Luffy vs Lucci Oda wrote something much more serious, he can do that for Luffy vs Akainu. This isn't a restriction.

 

[Peenix]

Luffys fights have always had an element of comedy to them this isn't really a new thing, you see him morphing his body into all sorts of weird shapes to get an advatange over his enemy, Gear 5 just takes that to the next level. But just like Luffy had comedy within his Arlong and Crocodile fights (which had dead serious endings), when we got to Luffy vs Lucci Oda wrote something much more serious, he can do that for Luffy vs Akainu. This isn't a restriction.

Honestly I just can't see Luffy having any funny moments fighting Akainu, and that's kinda goes against how Oda's been writing him lately

 

[SakazOuki]

So you’re telling me Luffy will not have a fight with any marine in 1500 chapter
Very well thought out idea

 

[Hamlette]

Honestly I just can't see Luffy having any funny moments fighting Akainu, and that's kinda goes against how Oda's been writing him lately

Same could be said for Kaido or Egghead Lucci but Lo and behold Oda found a way to inject comedy. I think your expectations for Akainu don't really align with the way Oda writes. Will the fight have serious moments, absolutely, but comedy is something that will also be present. But this is also an odd point since you state he'll fight the physical manifestation of evil in Imu, do you see more potential for goofiness in a fight of that magnitude?.

 

[kumae]

I mean I'm cool with it sabo is one of my favourites characters

 

[Peenix]

Same could be said for Kaido or Egghead Lucci but Lo and behold Oda found a way to inject comedy. I think your expectations for Akainu don't really align with the way Oda writes. Will the fight have serious moments, absolutely, but comedy is something that will also be present. But this is also an odd point since you state he'll fight the physical manifestation of evil in Imu, do you see more potential for goofiness in a fight of that magnitude?.

It's hard to say that Imu is some manifestation of evil when nothing is known about him. Imu is a complete and total mystery right now

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Ace only died because he had to save Luffy. Luffy being careless at Marineford led to Ace dying and that’s something Luffy has to live with.