Powers & Abilities Explainint Haki and Zoro's Ashura

[Herrera95]

From my understanding.

Asura itself is AdCoC (this includes pre-ts)

He's manipulating his CoC and making that into Asura the way Zoro sees himself as a demon deity (his will)

Zoro is doing the not touching thing but using that same haki and transforming it into Asura.

It can't be like that in my opinion because would deny any haki bloom Zoro had in this moment. For sure it was an extreme situation. We could even argue that Zoro had 2 haki bloom at rooftop, maybe he only slowed Hakai using adv CoA and he only made a scar on Kaido using adv CoC(maybe even combined with CoA).
But yes, that is just expeculation. It still very unclear what haki people are using.

 

[draganax]

Internal destruction has no relation at all with normal CoC. Forget anime, really. Anime is pure bullshit.
Enma was never told to have anything with CoC. Wano calls haki of Ryou but we have only saw they using it as CoA. So this is just head cannon of you.

CoC only doest extra damage when coating it like Luffy is doing right now. Nowhere in manga says otherwise.

i watched that scene by accident on youtube, it does make sense why hyogoro/scabbards can't do internal destruction and luffy can, the only difference between them is CoC

enma exudes haki, CoC is haki too

you can coat yourself with all colors of haki, CoC is rare, and so far most conquerors don't know how to flow

 

[Herrera95]

it's implied, when zoro used the flow in alabasta he could hear the breath of everything, even falling rocks that have no will inside them, normal observation as rayleigh explained means to read the will behind every attack, and also read the number, movement location of the enemies (living beings)

it's the same thing

Spoiler

Spoiler

you can flow conqueror the same way you do with armament

The breath of everything and flowing haki is not the same thing. But in fact Zoro flowed his haki at Alabasta because that is using haki externally to your body. But is not adv CoA that Luffy used at chap 1000.
So Alabasta Zoro used Ryou but not adv CoA(because Ryou is just a different application of haki, that goes for weapons).
Zoro said he knew the rocks wouldn't hit him, this is kind of future sight similar to Luffy x Mihawk at Marineford. Nothing like flowing haki.
And how can you say that flowing is equal coating if Luffy knows how to coat but can't flow?

Post automatically merged: Apr 29, 2021

i watched that scene by accident on youtube, it does make sense why hyogoro/scabbards can't do internal destruction and luffy can, the only difference between them is CoC

enma exudes haki, CoC is haki too

you can coat yourself with all colors of haki, CoC is rare, and so far most conquerors don't know how to flow

CoC is haki but is like a different fuel of haki. Luffy got one-shotted by Kaido while at G4. That means he has 10min drawback of haki. But he used conqueror unconscious anyway. That means he can use all his armament haki that won't prevent him from using conqueror. Not sure about observation though.

 

[Rukusho]

It can't be like that in my opinion because would deny any haki bloom Zoro had in this moment. For sure it was an extreme situation. We could even argue that Zoro had 2 haki bloom at rooftop, maybe he only slowed Hakai using adv CoA and he only made a scar on Kaido using adv CoC(maybe even combined with CoA).
But yes, that is just expeculation. It still very unclear what haki people are using.

I hear you.

The way I was looking at it out of all the straw hats the one who hasn't been pushed is Zoro so this was Zoro's moment, I didn't think his Asura was bloom, I'm expecting his second match up with Kaido will be his bloom moment, but I definitely see where your coming from as well and I don't rule it out.

Post automatically merged: Apr 29, 2021

Also wanted to point out.

Kiki - 鬼気 (Demon Will) - Has the same Kanji for Haki (覇気)

Kaku comments on feeling his presence.

Spoiler: Zoro aura

Zoro causes Kaku to flinch in the midst of his assault on Asura-Zoro

Spoiler: Getting Sloppy

 

[Herrera95]

I hear you.

The way I was looking at it out of all the straw hats the one who hasn't been pushed is Zoro so this was Zoro's moment, I didn't think his Asura was bloom, I'm expecting his second match up with Kaido will be his bloom moment, but I definitely see where your coming from as well and I don't rule it out.

Post automatically merged: Apr 29, 2021

Also wanted to point out.

Kiki - 鬼気 (Demon Will) - Has the same Kanji for Haki (覇気)

Kaku comments on feeling his presence.

Spoiler: Zoro aura

Zoro causes Kaku to flinch in the midst of his assault on Asura-Zoro

Spoiler: Getting Sloppy

Maybe with Kaku was basic CoC and with Kaido is adv CoC?

 

[draganax]

The breath of everything and flowing haki is not the same thing.

i think you're confusing it with the voice of all things
the breath of all things falls under the concept of flow

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

The breath of everything and flowing haki is not the same thing. But in fact Zoro flowed his haki at Alabasta because that is using haki externally to your body. But is not adv CoA that Luffy used at chap 1000.

luffy in chapter 1000 used internal destruction, zoro in alabasta hasn't awoken his CoC yet

So Alabasta Zoro used Ryou but not adv CoA(because Ryou is just a different application of haki, that goes for weapons).

what? no, they're the same thing, ryou is just what wano people call haki, the concept of flow can be infused with weapons, it's not only specific to them

Zoro said he knew the rocks wouldn't hit him, this is kind of future sight similar to Luffy x Mihawk at Marineford. Nothing like flowing haki.
And how can you say that flowing is equal coating if Luffy knows how to coat but can't flow?

no it's more complicated than future sight, future sight is just normal observation trained to the maximum it make you see what's going to happen before it happened, while the breath is a completely different thing it makes you know what's going to happen without seeing it, it's like what rayleigh said: to never doubt, that is power

Spoiler

zoro knew where the rocks will fall he didn't see the future

Spoiler

luffy can't coat if he cant flow, luffy in 1000 may look like he made physical contact that's because he made his haki coat enter kaido's body to do internal damage

That means he has 10min drawback of haki.

not necessarily, luffy can willingly end the transformation while he still got haki left, and kaido knocked him out before his haki ran out

 

[Herrera95]

i think you're confusing it with the voice of all things
the breath of all things falls under the concept of flow

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

luffy in chapter 1000 used internal destruction, zoro in alabasta hasn't awoken his CoC yet

what? no, they're the same thing, ryou is just what wano people call haki, the concept of flow can be infused with weapons, it's not only specific to them

no it's more complicated than future sight, future sight is just normal observation trained to the maximum it make you see what's going to happen before it happened, while the breath is a completely different thing it makes you know what's going to happen without seeing it, it's like what rayleigh said: to never doubt, that is power

Spoiler

zoro knew where the rocks will fall he didn't see the future

Spoiler

luffy can't coat if he cant flow, luffy in 1000 may look like he made physical contact that's because he made his haki coat enter kaido's body to do internal damage

not necessarily, luffy can willingly end the transformation while he still got haki left, and kaido knocked him out before his haki ran out

Aaaa dude. My point is that flow thing was taught to Zoro like that because he is a swordsman. So he needs to use haki externally. Rayleigh didn't taught Luffy like that because he didn't need it to use externally. So Ryou I know it is haki. But is basic haki applied to weapons. Yes you can use without an weapon but it was meant to it.
Now about adv CoA. You clearly see Luffy trying to do the same thing Rayleigh and Sentomaru did. So Sentomaru had CoC?

I can't sent your argument because we don't know who truly is using CoA or not. That goes for Scabbards for example.

About Luffy G4 you are completely wrong. Even when Luffy used G4 for seconds to punch BM he got out of haki. So no he can't used G4 and get out before time limit and be able to use haki.

 

[draganax]

Aaaa dude. My point is that flow thing was taught to Zoro like that because he is a swordsman. So he needs to use haki externally. Rayleigh didn't taught Luffy like that because he didn't need it to use externally. So Ryou I know it is haki. But is basic haki applied to weapons. Yes you can use without an weapon but it was meant to it.

rayleigh only taught luffy the basics of haki, he didn't have time to teach him complicated techniques, in wano they learn basic haki, but they still need a master swordsman like oden or hyogoro's teacher to teach is to them, not all wano samurai can use haki flow

Now about adv CoA. You clearly see Luffy trying to do the same thing Rayleigh and Sentomaru did. So Sentomaru had CoC?

at first that was luffy's main objective, to learn how to punch people without touching them, that's first stage of ACoA, but when he learned ha can do a more powerful version which is internal destruction he focused on it instead, and that's a feat only conquerors can achieve

I can't sent your argument because we don't know who truly is using CoA or not. That goes for Scabbards for example.

the scabbards can only use the first level of ACoA because they're not conquerors

About Luffy G4 you are completely wrong. Even when Luffy used G4 for seconds to punch BM he got out of haki. So no he can't used G4 and get out before time limit and be able to use haki.

the big mom incident was weird because luffy said that his power is draining, which alludes to an outside factor draining his haki most likely big mom did something to drain his power, look at her hand

Spoiler

 

[S.W317]

it's implied, when zoro used the flow in alabasta he could hear the breath of everything, even falling rocks that have no will inside them, normal observation as rayleigh explained means to read the will behind every attack, and also read the number, movement location of the enemies (living beings)

it's the same thing

Spoiler

Spoiler

you can flow conqueror the same way you do with armament

You're the man, flow haki is not advanced CoA

 

[draganax]

You're the man, flow haki is not advanced CoA

yes, the concept of flow can be used with all three colors:
armament flow = ACoA --- barrier/internal damage
observation flow = ACoO --- breath of all things
conqueror flow = ACoC --- what luffy, kaido and big mom are currently doing

 

[Herrera95]

rayleigh only taught luffy the basics of haki, he didn't have time to teach him complicated techniques, in wano they learn basic haki, but they still need a master swordsman like oden or hyogoro's teacher to teach is to them, not all wano samurai can use haki flow

at first that was luffy's main objective, to learn how to punch people without touching them, that's first stage of ACoA, but when he learned ha can do a more powerful version which is internal destruction he focused on it instead, and that's a feat only conquerors can achieve

the scabbards can only use the first level of ACoA because they're not conquerors

the big mom incident was weird because luffy said that his power is draining, which alludes to an outside factor draining his haki most likely big mom did something to drain his power, look at her hand

Spoiler

Oh yeah, Rayleight didn't had time to teach Luffy that is why he left him 6 months alone and brag about Luffy being a faster learner. Of course this makes sense. Even if he didn't had time at least explain something to him. He told about tough guys who could see the future, why not telling him he can coat conqueror? Or Rayleigh can't coat conqueror? They way Luffy learned it seems to be a basic thing so... Also, I didn't understood what you were saying about swordmaster and basic haki.

As I said, it is a mess of what is AdvCoA, CoC and AdvCoC. So it is only clear now that CoC people is able to do the punch of chap 1000 AND Sentomaru too who can be a CoC user. Because Luffy clearly showed that Sentomaru did the same thing Rayleigh did. But he also said Hyogoro did what he wanted to learn and turns out Hyogoro itself stated that Luffy wanted to learn an advanced version that he himself didn't knew. So idk. It is a mess.

Yes I forget that thing about BM. It is really weird because Jinbe moment explained to us that someone fearless from BM is untouchable by her powers. Luffy clearly doesn't fear her. So what the hell was that?

 

[draganax]

Oh yeah, Rayleight didn't had time to teach Luffy that is why he left him 6 months alone and brag about Luffy being a faster learner. Of course this makes sense. Even if he didn't had time at least explain something to him. He told about tough guys who could see the future, why not telling him he can coat conqueror? Or Rayleigh can't coat conqueror? They way Luffy learned it seems to be a basic thing so... Also, I didn't understood what you were saying about swordmaster and basic haki.

As I said, it is a mess of what is AdvCoA, CoC and AdvCoC. So it is only clear now that CoC people is able to do the punch of chap 1000 AND Sentomaru too who can be a CoC user. Because Luffy clearly showed that Sentomaru did the same thing Rayleigh did. But he also said Hyogoro did what he wanted to learn and turns out Hyogoro itself stated that Luffy wanted to learn an advanced version that he himself didn't knew. So idk. It is a mess.

Yes I forget that thing about BM. It is really weird because Jinbe moment explained to us that someone fearless from BM is untouchable by her powers. Luffy clearly doesn't fear her. So what the hell was that?

first thing, there's two levels to ACoA:
lvl 1: invisible barrier deflection without physical contact, every one who can use the flow can do this
lvl 2: internal destruction, instead of creating a barrier with haki, you make that haki penetrate your enemy's body doing internal damage, this level can only be used by CoC users like rayleigh and luffy

the scabbards learned haki from oden who is a confirmed flow user so he also thought them how to use the flow if only with armament aka lvl 1 of ACoA the barrier, the scabbards are also able to use basic forms of haki like hardening and observation
hyogoro said that he learned the flow from a master swordsman

sentomaru can only do the lvl 1 of ACoA and create the barrier, rayleigh and luffy can do lvl 2 which is internal damage as implied when both of them destroyed the explosive collars, sentomaru and hyogoro can't do that

big mom is a weird creature, that ability she did was op

 

[Herrera95]

first thing, there's two levels to ACoA:
lvl 1: invisible barrier deflection without physical contact, every one who can use the flow can do this
lvl 2: internal destruction, instead of creating a barrier with haki, you make that haki penetrate your enemy's body doing internal damage, this level can only be used by CoC users like rayleigh and luffy

the scabbards learned haki from oden who is a confirmed flow user so he also thought them how to use the flow if only with armament aka lvl 1 of ACoA the barrier, the scabbards are also able to use basic forms of haki like hardening and observation
hyogoro said that he learned the flow from a master swordsman

sentomaru can only do the lvl 1 of ACoA and create the barrier, rayleigh and luffy can do lvl 2 which is internal damage as implied when both of them destroyed the explosive collars, sentomaru and hyogoro can't do that

big mom is a weird creature, that ability she did was op

You are assuming 2 levels of ACoA, for me is just different application but alright. So Rayleigh breaking collar is ACoA with basic CoC right? Not sure why basic CoC would make you able to do something like that, have we ever saw it?

Just correcting you because Oden never taught Scabbards. They learned for themselves watch Oden probably. And which panel Hyogoro said he learned that from sword master? I don't remember and would guess he wasn't talking about Oden.

I just re-read the panels where Luffy was learning Ryou. Actually he just jumped ryou and went straight to ACoA. I'm taking Ryou the things Hyogoro can do which is the same Sentomaru and ACoA the thing only Luffy and Rayleight had showed.