Fujishiro Vs Lee: Is Kaido A Disappointment?

[Elder Lee Hung]

@Fujishiro let’s talk here because that profile post character limit is fucked. We’re going to carry on 7 different micro arguments at the same time at this point and it’s all going to get mixed up. Anyway, here is my response to you all in one comment:

Magical Haki doesn’t impress me. We already saw how quick Oda is to pretend magic Haki doesn’t exist, or otherwise just not care about it at all in Egghead. Neither do all the other feats you mentioned impress me, because they are boring as shit and forgettable. I don’t care that he fought Fairy Mode or dodged whatever speed form that Katakuri and Kizaru also easily dodged, or defeated whatever mid/high tier characters after they embarrassed him and that Ryokugyu also defeated in much cleaner fashion at the end of the arc, all that shit is so boring to me, and like I said Kaido already got matched or outclassed in all those feats later on which is exactly what I predicted would happen in Egghead.

What impresses me is the actual badass feats of strength in OP. I’m talking Aokiji freezing the whole sea with his fingertips casually, or Fujitora dropping meteors casually or lifting the rubble over his head an obliterating an entire fleet of ships with it, or Ryokugyu jungle-nuking Udon casually, or Whitebeard’s quake attacks being felt at Shabondy miles away from Marineford, or even Midhawk’s iceberg feat which was crazy for a swordsman. All those feats of strength are actually what impress me, they are visually incredible and they Are unique to One Piece. By comparison Kaido was a retard swinging a mace around, who cares. And he wasn’t even swinging his mace that hard, base Luffy was blocking his mace strikes and even Nekomamushi swatted his mace out of his hand at one point. Kaido and Big Mom couldn’t even destroy the basement they fought bloodlusted inside while Aokiji and Akainu fucking terraformed huge island over ten days of battle. All these boring ass high-tier looking feats from Kaido did not impress me, he had the DC of an East Blue character and all of the supposedly impressive unquantifiable speed and durability feats of his got matched or outclassed in the very same arc he showed them. He was visually the most boring top tier to watch fight, his DC was pathetic and his 1v1 feats themselves didn’t even hold up for one arc, again, exactly as I predicted. If Oda wanted Kaido to be impressive he really should’ve given him some huge DC feats so his poor 1v1 FeAtS didn’t get embarrassed later on but that’s exactly what happened.

 

[Fujishiro]

Yeah I mean what is there to talk about.

Your arguments are:

I dont care about haki.

I dont care about Kaido besting G5 Luffy.

I just want big explosions lmao.

If Kizaru was the one who overpowered all out G5 Luffy you know you would be jizzing your pants bro but I guess Kaido doesnt matter.

You had way too high expectations of Kaido.

You want him to destroy his own base to show DC feats when in MF the admirals didnt show huge DC yet you wank their feats in MF.

You wank Akainu standing up to the WB commanders but yet for some reason you dont find Kaido neg diffing multiple high tiers in base form impressive.

You say Kaidos feats havent been holding up but so far no character has kept up or overpowered all out Luffy. Kaido did.

and like I said Kaido already got matched outclassed in all those feats later on which is exactly what I predicted would happen in Egghead.

This is a blatant lie unless you are talking about Kizaru speed blizting snakeman Luffy which was better done then what Kaido did but then again speed is Kizarus forte.

all of the supposedly impressive unquantifiable speed and durability feats of his got matched or outclassed in the very same arc he showed them.

Outclassed by who? King no? This should tell you that his durability isnt what made him strong, his durability was rendered moot at the start of the raid. Those were not durability feats that he was showing when he was getting hit and hurt, those were endurance feats.

his poor 1v1 FeAtS didn’t get embarrassed later on but that’s exactly what happened.

You keep saying his 1vs1 feats are poor but have yet to define them, how is overpowering and blizting G5 all out Luffy multiple times poor lmao? No one else did that.

 

[Warine]

Imo kaido can't work in one piece, a character like this need to be bloody, he needs to transform people into red paste

 

[Fujishiro]

Imo kaido can't work in one piece, a character like this need to be bloody, he needs to transform people into red paste

This is also true, Oda put in a Kenpachi like character in One Piece. It just doesnt work. The most he did was kill Luffy but then he just came back to life lmao.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Your arguments are:

I dont care about haki.

I dont care about Kaido besting G5 Luffy.

I just want big explosions lmao.

You asked me why I found Kaido disappointing lmfao. And yes, I found him disappointing because his fight visually looked like a high tier battle. The fact that the Gorosei had to actually state that Luffy vs Kaido was a world class battle just shows how sad that fight actually was. Because it just goes to show that the fight doesn’t stand on its own merits and needs empty hype from characters who didn’t even witness it. “Luffy vs Kaido is a top tier battle, trust us!!” Lol

If Kizaru was the one who overpowered all out G5 Luffy you know you would be jizzing your pants bro but I guess Kaido doesnt matter.

No I wouldn't, because Gear 5 was still an unknown quantity of power during Wano. Case and point, casual Kizaru already looked like he didn’t give a shit about Gear 5. Gear 5 was also powerless against both Saturn and Warcury.

Wanking Gear 5 hardcore backfired against Kaido fans because of all the opponents who later did just fine against Gear 5 or even overpowered it. Do you see me out here claiming that Ryokugyu negging Weevil means that the Admirals are by far the strongest since no character will ever be able to do anything against Weevil? No, because Weevil’s overall level is still unknown, despite Weevil being the perfect propaganda opportunity for the Admiral agenda lol.

You had way too high expectations of Kaido.

I mean Oda introduced the motherfucker as the strongest character lmfao. Of course my expectations of him were that he would perform at a level above any other top tier.

Unfortunately in reality, Kaido never fought a single top tier in his life and all his feats got outclassed within the next arc of him showing them.

You want him to destroy his own base to show DC feats when in MF the admirals didnt show huge DC yet you wank their feats in MF.

I don’t really wank the Admirals’ Marineford feats that hard. Sure I explain why I think their Marineford feats are stupidly impressive compared to other characters but all of my favorite Admiral strength feats don’t happen in Marineford.

It’s the fact that the Admirals were restrained in Marineford that makes them so impressive. Like Akainu fighting the Whitebeard Pirates is only impressive because he had to restrain himself. Same goes for him 1v1ing Whitebeard in 1v1. These feats only matter to me because Akainu had to hold back. Otherwise my favorite Admiral feats are the ones where they look like nuclear warheads and just nuke huge chunks of territory.

You wank Akainu standing up to the WB commanders but yet for some reason you dont find Kaido neg diffing multiple high tiers in base form impressive.

In addition to what I just said about Akainu, Kaido did not neg the scabbards. They actually humiliated him and made him change forms before he finally defeated them. Vista never cut Akainu’s magma fist in half and sliced his lip. Namur never wrapped Akainu up in a magma scroll and made him scream in pain. The division commanders never had Akainu on the ground unconscious and awaiting death. Akainu was completely clean against them and even defeating Curiel.

Ryokugyu also straight up did the scabbard feat better than Kaido. And unlike Kaido, Ryokugyu actually didn’t want to harm the scabbards initially, he was basically trying to get them to comply with him before he finally wrapped them all up. And that said he still looked far, far less scrubbish than Kaido did. Seriously I don’t think you realize how pathetic Raizo injuring Kaido with his own attack is. Literally Kaido is such a giant moron unworthy of even the smallest form of respect. I have almost nothing good to say about the way Oda handled him. He looked fucking. Amazing. In 795, but after that Oda ruined him.

You say Kaidos feats havent been holding up but so far no character has kept up or overpowered all out Luffy. Kaido did.

Is Warcury a joke to you? Warcury has literally made Kaido look more fraudulent than any other character has been made to appear fraudulent in OP history. Saturn was also doing solid against Nika. And hopefully Oda will allow a serious Kizaru to shine against the Gorosei because overall yes I am disappointed with the way Oda handled Kizaru’s feats in Egghead.

 

[Fujishiro]

You asked me why I found Kaido disappointing lmfao. And yes, I found him disappointing because his fight visually looked like a high tier battle. The fact that the Gorosei had to actually state that Luffy vs Kaido was a world class battle just shows how sad that fight actually was. Because it just goes to show that the fight doesn’t stand on its own merits and needs empty hype from characters who didn’t even witness it. “Luffy vs Kaido is a top tier battle, trust us!!” Lol

See what you want is Pokemon battles with big explosions everywhere and thats fine, I like mano a mano hand to hand combat and that was what happened during the rooftop and it was enjoyable for me.

No I wouldn't, because Gear 5 was still an unknown quantity of power during Wano. Case and point, casual Kizaru already looked like he didn’t give a shit about Gear 5. Gear 5 was also powerless against both Saturn and Warcury.

Kizarus personality is that he seems aloof all the time, he didnt give a shit about Whitebeard either. Doesnt mean WB isnt strong.

Wanking Gear 5 hardcore backfired against Kaido fans because of all the opponents who later did just fine against Gear 5 or even overpowered it.

Who overpowered all out G5 Luffy? Give me names.

Do you see me out here claiming that Ryokugyu negging Weevil means that the Admirals are by far the strongest since no character will ever be able to do anything against Weevil? No, because Weevil’s overall level is still unknown, despite Weevil being the perfect propaganda opportunity for the Admiral agenda lol.

When did any Kaido fan say that negging a bunch of high tiers means hes the strongest? It just meant it was a good feat.

I mean Oda introduced the motherfucker as the strongest character lmfao. Of course my expectations of him were that he would perform at a level above any other top tier.

This is dumb, this is where you and I differ. While I understood that Kaido was the favorite in 1vs1 battles I knew he still had peers in the Yonko and also the Admirals. They were portrayed in a deadlock for a reason. If Kaido is the strongest its by a tiny margin is how I always viewed it and it turned out that I was right as he respected Shanks, treated Big Mom like a threat,etc.

Unfortunately in reality, Kaido never fought a single top tier in his life

My brother in christ, no top tier has fought another top tier and won in this manga except for Akainu. This is not a good metric to judge ones strength.

and all his feats got outclassed within the next arc of him showing them.

No they were not, you keep repeating this but you cant prove it. What was he outclassed in? Durability from Warcury?

It’s the fact that the Admirals were restrained in Marineford that makes them so impressive. Like Akainu fighting the Whitebeard Pirates is only impressive because he had to restrain himself. Same goes for him 1v1ing Whitebeard in 1v1. These feats only matter to me because Akainu had to hold back. Otherwise my favorite Admiral feats are the ones where they look like nuclear warheads and just nuke huge chunks of territory.

And yet Kaido not wanting to destroy his own future capital while fighting multiple people while lifting an Island isnt impressive. Lmao.

In addition to what I just said about Akainu, Kaido did not neg the scabbards. They actually humiliated him and made him change forms before they finally defeated them. Vista never cut Akainu’s magma fist in half and sliced his lip. Namur never wrapped Akainu up in a magma scroll and made him scream in pain. The division commanders never had Akainu on the ground unconscious and awaiting death. Akainu was completely clean against them and even defeating Curiel.

Another point to you not understanding narrative and or characters personalities. Kaido did in fact neg the scabbards once he decided they couldnt kill him, its literally in the manga. He was sandbagging before that. Reread Wano you make yourself look like a fool bro.

Ryokugyu also straight up did the scabbard feat better than Kaido.

No he didnt, he restrained them. Kaido demolished them and had them all knocked out.

And that said he still looked far, far less scrubbish than Kaido did.

Once again your inability to understand that characters arent carbon copies of each other shows, Kaido isnt GB. Kaido likes to play around. Kaido sandbags. Kaido literally ad verbatum told the scabbards that he wanted to see if they could kill him. Hence why he sandbagged against them. Once he saw that they couldnt he transitioned to base form and negged them. Its in the manga, stop denying the manga.

Seriously I don’t think you realize how pathetic Raizo injuring Kaido with his own attack is. Literally Kaido is such a giant moron unworthy of even the smallest form of respect.

I disagree, you are extremely level 1 with your line of thinking. Kaido was sandbagging.

I have almost nothing good to say about the way Oda handled him. He looked fucking. Amazing. In 795, but after that Oda ruined him.

I disagree. You basically wanted a no nonsense terminator that always goes all out and is serious all the time. Since you didnt get that you somehow think any other iteration is bad.

Is Warcury a joke to you? Warcury has literally made Kaido look more fraudulent than any other character has been made to appear fraudulent in OP history.

No he didnt, all hes shown is better durability then Kaido. I am prepared to say that hes stronger if he shows more feats but so far having more durability then Kaido does nothing to me. King is more durable then Kaido as well.

Saturn was also doing solid against Nika.

No he wasnt he was getting trolled and Luffy literally held his head with one hand lmao.

And hopefully Oda will allow a serious Kizaru to shine against the Gorosei because overall yes I am disappointed with the way Oda handled Kizaru’s feats in Egghead.

Im sure Kizaru will show off soon enough bro.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

This is an unbelievable battle folks!

 

[SakazOuki]

@MarineHQ @Extravlad and I will be the judges

 

[Uncle Van]

I think the problem is that Kaido is a walking contradiction by design. The world views Kaido as a warmonger, unkillable and absolute strongest, and Kaido tries to live up to that, but we see him get one shot and scream in pain 24/7. Kaido talks about honor and duels, but so easily accepts help to beat Oden and doesn't stop a rigged oil trial. Kaido calls himself the strongest but avoids a fight with BM. He has big ambitions but his willpower drops to the point he tries to commit suicide.

Kaido looks up to JoyBoy as the one who unites the world, and envies the legacy Roger, WB and Oden left behind. Because of this, Kaido believes that death gives meaning to how one lived. However, due to his experiences with the unfairness of the world, he thinks that people will only follow overwhelming strength out of fear, and struggles to leave behind a meaningful legacy and it drives him to despair.

His initial perceptions creates expectations, but Oda's attempts at development and character growth can easily come off as lame and disappointing.

 

[MarineHQ]

@MarineHQ @Extravlad and I will be the judges

Lmao, on this topic 🤣

We would have Lejas winning if he argued against Kaido lol

 

[Peroroncino]

Both of you are correct, Gaolang > Jurota is a fact

 

[Fujishiro]

I think the problem is that Kaido is a walking contradiction by design. The world views Kaido as a warmonger, unkillable and absolute strongest, and Kaido tries to live up to that, but we see him get one shot and scream in pain 24/7. Kaido talks about honor and duels, but so easily accepts help to beat Oden and doesn't stop a rigged oil trial. Kaido calls himself the strongest but avoids a fight with BM. He has big ambitions but his willpower drops to the point he tries to commit suicide.

Kaido looks up to JoyBoy as the one who unites the world, and envies the legacy Roger, WB and Oden left behind. Because of this, Kaido believes that death gives meaning to how one lived. However, due to his experiences with the unfairness of the world, he thinks that people will only follow overwhelming strength out of fear, and struggles to leave behind a meaningful legacy and it drives him to despair.

His initial perceptions creates expectations, but Oda's attempts at development and character growth can easily come off as lame and disappointing.

Thats a character problem not a strength one though.

 

[MarineHQ]

Both of you are correct, Gaolang > Jurota is a fact

You stay out of this. Dortmund or Leverkusen are gonna cook you clowns.

 

[Fujishiro]

@MarineHQ @Extravlad and I will be the judges

Nah bro Im done, its clear Lee has different expectations of what makes a badass character then me so we will never see eye to eye on this topic.

 

[Uncle Van]

Thats a character problem not a strength one though.

Nah it's a strength on too. You'd expect feats and good fights from someone with such build up at first. What we got was a dude getting chopped up left n' right and spamming ACOC clubs 24/7.

 

[Fujishiro]

Nah it's a strength on too. You'd expect feats and good fights from someone with such build up at first. What we got was a dude getting chopped up left n' right and spamming ACOC clubs 24/7.

We got great feats from Kaido I dont know what you're talking about.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

I like mano a mano hand to hand combat and that was what happened during the rooftop and it was enjoyable for me.

The most generic possible type of battle lmfao. Seriously you’re telling me you want to see the type of battle that already exists in 10,000 other manga. Seriously why even read OP for this style of battle? There are far better manga if you want a pure 1v1 Mano e Mano slugfest. Luffy vs Kaido did not play to Oda’s strengths as a writer at all. It was the most Dragonball fight Oda has ever written, so maybe it’s no wonder that Oda was so concerned about losing to garbage like Dragonball, because Luffy vs Kaido was a shitty dragonball fight.

I mean genuine question, why read OP if this is the style of fight you want? There are so many mangaka who could’ve done this lame shit better.

Kizarus personality is that he seems aloof all the time, he didnt give a shit about Whitebeard either. Doesnt mean WB isnt strong.

Did I say Nika wasn’t strong lol? No, I said Kaido overpowering Nika wasn’t worth wanking because Nika’s level wasn’t known anyway. Case and point Nika got repeatedly overpowered in Egghead. On that point:

Who overpowered all out G5 Luffy? Give me names.

Kizaru treated Nika like a gnat while Nika was deathly serious about stopping him.

Saturn looked casual against Nika as he knew Nika wouldn’t be able to overcome his regen.

Warcury made Nika look like a Yonko commander.

When did any Kaido fan say that negging a bunch of high tiers means hes the strongest? It just meant it was a good feat.

Lol, okay? “It was a good feat”? Who cares? There’s a lot of good feats in OP. Kaido fans used to argue this laughable garbage was the best feat in the manga until Ryokugyu did it better lol.

My brother in christ, no top tier has fought another top tier and won in this manga except for Akainu. This is not a good metric to judge ones strength.

Oda also never introduced a rumor of any other top tier being the strongest. Which creates the expectation in the reader’s mind that something Kaido did in the past birthed such a rumor.

But Kaido did absolutely nothing to earn this rumor. He never defeated any top tiers or even fucking fought any of them apparently lol.

No they were not, you keep repeating this but you cant prove it. What was he outclassed in? Durability from Warcury?

The scabbard feat was totally outclassed by Ryokugyu. The Gorosei also looked just as good or even better against Nika. Kaido lifted Onigashima, Fujitora lifted all of the Dressrosa Rubble. Kaido dodged Snake Man, so did Katakuri and Kizaru.

Not a single feat of Kaido’s is unique to him.

And yet Kaido not wanting to destroy his own future capital while fighting multiple people while lifting an Island isnt impressive. Lmao.

You just make shit up lmfao. I don’t think Kaido could destroy his capital if he wanted to. I mean I guess he could’ve dropped it into the ocean but that has nothing to do with how strong he actually is in a fight.

Kaido did in fact neg the scabbards once he decided they couldnt kill him, its literally in the manga. He was sandbagging before that.

Kaido is a bloodlusted fool who is always going all out. He has no other character. I’m not interested in your bullshit cope about how he was restraining himself, don’t even try to lie to me like that, I won’t entertain that bullshit for a second. We all read the same arc, trying to write Kaido off as a complex character will cause me to end this conversation. I have no interest in entertaining such obvious lies.

No he didnt, he restrained them.

Ryokugyu could’ve killed them all after retraining them. There was nothing stopping him, but he wanted them to bring Luffy out to him.

I disagree. You basically wanted a no nonsense terminator that always goes all out and is serious all the time.

That’s not what I wanted, that’s what Kaido is. He was just a no nonsense terminator who looked utterly pathetic.

My favorite OP character is Fujitora who intentionally jobs on purpose lol. Like how can you say I want a terminator when my favorite characters, the Admirals, are always character restrained lmfao.

 

[Peroroncino]

You stay out of this. Dortmund or Leverkusen are gonna cook you clowns.

lortmund and the small bayern have no chance

 

[Fujishiro]

Kizaru treated Nika like a gnat while Nika was deathly serious about stopping him.

Saturn looked casual against Nika as he knew Nika wouldn’t be able to overcome his regen.

Warcury made Nika look like a Yonko commander.

None of them overpowered G5 Luffy, all out or not.

The scabbard feat was totally outclassed by Ryokugyu.

No he didnt, repeating it wont make it true.

The Gorosei also looked just as good or even better against Nika.

No they didnt they were getting trolled and never laid a hand on him.

Not a single feat of Kaido’s is unique to him.

Overpowering and blizting all out Luffy. I will keep repeating this as long as you keep ignoring it lmao.

You just make shit up lmfao. I don’t think Kaido could destroy his capital if he wanted to. I mean I guess he could’ve dropped it into the ocean but that has nothing to do with how strong he actually is in a fight.

Yeah he can? His stronger Boro Breath was 1 3rd of Onigashima in width, his Flaming Drum Dragon can do the job as well.

Kaido is a bloodlusted fool who is always going all out.

Lies, this is sad lmao.

I’m not interested in your bullshit cope about how he was restraining himself,

Its not cope its the truth.

I won’t entertain that bullshit for a second.

Youre nuts bro, read the godamn manga holy shit.

I have no interest in entertaining such obvious lies.

You can end this convo, Im down. Kaido literally canonically plays with his food. Its written in the manga. Also unless you wanna tell me that the Kaido that fought the scabbards is the same one that went in base and destroyed them and the same one that was overpowering and keeping up with G5 Luffy idk what to tell you, you have literal factual proof that he was holding back and youre calling me a liar. This is so dumb.

Ryokugyu could’ve killed them all after retraining them.

Cool, and? Also I doubt he wouldve killed them nobody dies in One Piece. Kaido didnt kill the scabbards after knocking them all out.

That’s not what I wanted, that’s what Kaido is. He was just a no nonsense terminator who looked utterly pathetic.

Kaido isnt a no nonsense terminator at all, his 2nd intro has him crying and getting drunk. Be serious Lee.

My favorite OP character is Fujitora who intentionally jobs on purpose lol. Like how can you say I want a terminator when my favorite characters, the Admirals, are always character restrained lmfao.

So then I dont know what your problem with Kaido is. You just seem to throw logic out of the window when it comes to him, ignore his personality and just expect him to always go all out when he is like the one character that never goes all out from jump.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Oh my god