Whitebeard, Shanks, Akainu, Shiki, Kizaru, Fujitora, Kaido, Big Mom, and many more. One Piece is filled with fighters who possess immense prowess. However among all the fighters of the One Piece world, there are two in particular who stand at it's epitome. These two are renowned rivals who have clashed and competed against each other more than anybody else out there. The fighters being Monkey D. Garp & Gol D. Roger. BUT not only are they the top fighters, they represent the epitome of the two most renowned fighting styles to exist in One Piece - Swordsmanship & Brawling.
Garp & Roger - The History:
-> Both of them were born in the East Blue, the sea regarded as the weakest of them all. One born in the city of Loguetown, while the other more than likely born in Goa Kingdom/ Foosha Village.
-> Both grew up in similar fashions of reckless lifestyle. As Garp mentions Roger grew up akin to Ace. And based on Garp's picture as a kid, Garp himself grew up pretty akin to how Ace did.
-> Both then start their careers as Pirate & Marine in a very similar age:
-> Garp would then rise to the rank of a Vice-Admiral over time, and Roger would become a pretty renowned pirate himself. Both of them would then take part in the overthrowing of the strongest pirate crew on the seas, in their ultimate team up. This event would then go on to establish Roger above the pirate peers of his generation and for Garp above the marine peers of his generation:
->But not only that they had spent years fighting each other, something that's practically unheard of even among the other top tiers. For example, Roger & Whitebeard hadn't seen each other in years before their clash of 3 days. Or Big Mom & Kaido not having fought each other in years. So on and so forth. But these two constantly fought each other over the years. When this started? We don't know, but more than likely before the Rocks event. Who was superior? We don't know. It's stated Garp cornered Roger many times, but Roger also did manage to escape.
-> Roger would come to be regarded as a demon for his enemies, while Garp would come to be renowned as the devil himself for pirates. With both of them holding tremendous respect for one another despite being bitter enemies.
-> Roger's era would end with his death & Whitebeard's would start. In a close parallels to that Sengoku's reign as the Fleet Admiral would start and Garp would also pull back, as the main guy he was chasing after on the seas, was no longer there.
Swordsmanship & Brawling/fighter:
In the one piece world when you look at the top dudes out there, there are two key fighting styles that you might see. Swordsmanship & Fighting (non-weapon combat). A thematic clash between these two was brought up in the early stages of the manga:
Note that the above doesn't say "let's see who's superior between the two of us", but rather who's superior between the swordsman or the fighter (non-armed fighting style), a fight to determine the superior fighting style.
If we were to look at the top tiers of the OP World we would see:
-> Sakazuki - Fighter
-> Borsalino - Swordsman
-> Fujitora - Swordsman
-> Big Mom - Hybrid?? (Not sure whether she's the strongest with Prometheus & Zeus in her hands or with Napoleon)
-> Garp - Fighter
-> Sengoku - Fighter
-> Mihawk - Swordsman
-> Shanks - Swordsman
-> Shiki - Swordsman
-> Rocks - Swordsman
-> Kuzan - Fighter?? (tbd)
-> Green Bull - ??? (unclear atm)
-> Blackbeard - Fighter
-> Kong - Fighter???
-> Dragon - Fighter
The number of Top tiers who use weapons, in particular swordsmen, is higher than fighters who rely on Martial arts + haki or DF + haki with no weapons involved. This is also why the title of WSS holds weight because swordsmanship is the most widely used fighting style among the top tiers.
Relation to Roger & Garp:
During Roger's era we also, like this era, had a great number of swordsmen who stood at the top. But there are three that stood out the most: Shiki the Golden Lion, Dark King Rayleigh, Pirate King Gold Roger. Out of Shiki & Roger, Roger was viewed as the superior of the two by the likes of Sengoku and Shiki himself viewed Roger as a wall to overcome. Rayleigh was Roger's underling, and didn't have the same ambition as him, so there's no reason to assume he was superior to Roger. Thus making Roger the one who stood atop the swordsmen of his era. In fact the most impressive sword feats of swordsmanship in the manga even shown today are by none other than Gol D. Roger:
An attack that sent Oden, who had grew many times stronger in the four years since his clash with Whitebeard, was sent flying away and even damaged internally despite blocking the slash with his sword.
The highest level of CoA mastery shown with the sword to date (Whitebeard also reached a similar level of mastery with his Bisento that he had been fighting with since he was a child):
Some people wonder how Roger was then able to keep up with Whitebeard if their CoA mastery of weapons & if WB had superior physical prowess, the answer to that is swordsmanship techniques. Just look at the difference in attack power for Zoro's various sword techniques in the 3-sword style.
Yet many in the fandom aren't willing to label him as a swordsman. Many resorting to reasoning such as "CoC overload", when CoC would just be used in conjunction with his swordsmanship, similar to how Luffy uses it with his fists. Reasoning such as "how can he be the strongest swordsman of the era, when he's not called that", yet these fans fail to point out to anybody else besides Mihawk ever holding that title. Even the "Sword God Ryuuma" is a title limited to the land of Wano. There is no title for somebody being the strongest fighter type, yet that's what Luffy will be. Simply because Roger wasn't called the WSS (which he very well could've been for all we know), he nonetheless was the strongest sword-fighter of that era, does the man who stood at the epitome of the sword while he was alive.
--
In that same era Garp would also rise to fame as Garp The Fist. The man who fought using haki + martial art techniques (the WG martial arts that Koby/CP0/CP9/etc know). There was no other fighter type out there who could rival this man, Sengoku who was also a fighter type was viewed as Garp's inferior. And of course Garp wanting to train Luffy & Ace to be the strongest marines to ever exist, stronger than himself, with both of them also being fighters just like Garp.
Their team up against the Rocks where Roger is drawn with his sword & Garp with his fist, couldn't be more fitting to represent the two individuals who stood at the top of swordsmanship & fighter style.
But who is superior out of the two? Nobody knows... then we come to the present era.
The Present Era:
Now we have Monkey D. Luffy and Roronoa Zoro. Luffy who is aiming to surpass the admirals & yonko in prowess. Zoro who wants to be the strongest swordsman to ever live (his promise to Kuina).
It's a given to many that Luffy would surpass Garp/Roger/etc by EoS and what have you. Considering the fact Garp was training him to be the strongest marine ever since he was a baby, that's sort of a given at this point.
Issue however arises when we talk about Zoro. You see the fandom tends to cap Zoro down to characters like Mihawk and Rayleigh. But there is a big issue with that. Rayleigh wasn't the strongest swordsman of his time. With Mihawk it's unclear whether he's stronger than a 2-armed Shanks (since Shanks sacrificed his potential to "bet" on Luffy). While they are similar to Zoro in various roles and traits.. they are also very much different:
Mihawk - Has tremendous ambition, but is a loner so doesn't have the "getting stronger for others" factor (something that seems to empower people through an emotional boost and what have you when in tough situations).
Rayleigh - Has the "getting stronger for others", but has never been shown to be highly ambitious with his goal (which is visible from even when Roger just recruited him).
Zoro is a combition of both. Zoro's ambition in putting in the work rivals that of Luffy's, simply reflect to how Zoro was putting in work in becoming strong as a kid, in parrallel to Luffy putting in work to become strong with Ace. Zoro then also has the whole "getting stronger for others" factor that Shanks/Roger have/had. Where he can throw away his pride and humble himself to a point he asks the man he's aiming to train him.
That's why when we use Rayleigh or Dracule as the measuring sticks for Zoro, it's not accurate. The more accurate comparisons imo would be Roger himself who embodied great individual ambition + the whole "stronger for others" factor. Or it would be 2-armed Shanks, if he was stronger than Mihawk (which we don't really know). In fact a better comparison for somebody like Rayleigh would be, Killer from Kid's crew, who grows strong to support his captain's ambition but doesn't have his own great ambition that rivals the captain's.
Luffy & Zoro History:
In chapter 5 they meet with "The Pirate King & The Great Swordsman"
Arlong thinks of Zoro as a huge threat in the future after seeing Zoro's face when he's about to Kill Zoro. Similar moment with Smoker & Luffy at Loguetown.
Both clash at Whiskey Peak, with the winner of the fight undetermined, but both being displayed as equals
They take on Daz & Crocodile, their fights being hard fights due to simply not being able to damage their enemies because of the properties of their body.
Zoro get's his will power tested in Thriller Bark with Luffy's pain, Luffy gets his willpower tested with the treatment from ivankov.
Zoro nearly cut down a Celestial Dragon, Luffy punches a celestial Dragon.
Both clash against an admiral in Dressrosa and are pretty impressive.
Luffy trains a higher stage of CoA, Zoro gains Haki boost through Enma training, which is what Act 2 ends on.
While Luffy at times has seemed more impressive than Zoro, it's only been in situations whether Zoro either wouldn't be able to deal with the situation due to differences in the type of abilities they have (Ie, Enel vs Luffy compared to Enel vs Zoro or Luffy being able to store water and what not due to being rubber against Crocodile or being able to use the blood on his hand.. something that would've been nearly impossible for Zoro).. or it's in situations where Luffy has an all out fight, while Zoro has a small fight but is completely fine still and still has plenty of energy for more (Ie, Kaku vs Zoro compared to Lucci vs Luffy. Or at Thriller Bark where Luffy's pushed to near the end of his limit from all that damage while Zoro is still able to go on for much longer as showcased with him taking on Luffy's pain).
And contrary to the popular belief, Zoro has never considered himself inferior to Luffy. He's always questioned the superiority between the two (as seen by him challenging Luffy to the Fish challenge).
Superiority between the two is unclear and it will probably remain that way until the very end, more than likely. Fans could argue Luffy > Zoro because of the Captain > Underling logic, but that sadly wouldn't apply to Zoro as no other underling has shown an ambition that rivals their captain's. Beckman? Nope, just there supporting his captain. Marco? Nope supporting WB... Ray Ray? Nope, just supporting his captain..so on and so forth. Zoro is a sheer anomaly that doesn't exist in any One Piece crew out there, so the Captain > Underling logic doesn't apply to him.
(I had to focus on Zoro so much because he's basically the one people would question in this comparison)
Conclusion:
Who is stronger the fighter or the swordsman? That is an unanswered question when it comes to One Piece. It was never answered when Roger & Garp were there. And potentially even before that if Rocks (strongest pirate of the era) - Kong (Admiral/Fleet admiral of the era) shared a similar relationship. It isn't answered in the mid era between Dragon or Teach or Sakazuki vs 2-armed Shanks or Mihawk or Fujitora. And now this question of the fighter or the swordsman carries over to the new era of One Piece, but the twist this time is that the ones who will embody being the greatest fighter & the greatest swordsman are on the same team. Will the question get answered who is superior?? My opinion, no. Oda will more than likely leave it vague as to who is superior between the ones who stand atop these two fighting styles.
Thanks for reading and peace.
Garp & Roger - The History:
-> Both of them were born in the East Blue, the sea regarded as the weakest of them all. One born in the city of Loguetown, while the other more than likely born in Goa Kingdom/ Foosha Village.
-> Both grew up in similar fashions of reckless lifestyle. As Garp mentions Roger grew up akin to Ace. And based on Garp's picture as a kid, Garp himself grew up pretty akin to how Ace did.
-> Both then start their careers as Pirate & Marine in a very similar age:
-> Garp would then rise to the rank of a Vice-Admiral over time, and Roger would become a pretty renowned pirate himself. Both of them would then take part in the overthrowing of the strongest pirate crew on the seas, in their ultimate team up. This event would then go on to establish Roger above the pirate peers of his generation and for Garp above the marine peers of his generation:
->But not only that they had spent years fighting each other, something that's practically unheard of even among the other top tiers. For example, Roger & Whitebeard hadn't seen each other in years before their clash of 3 days. Or Big Mom & Kaido not having fought each other in years. So on and so forth. But these two constantly fought each other over the years. When this started? We don't know, but more than likely before the Rocks event. Who was superior? We don't know. It's stated Garp cornered Roger many times, but Roger also did manage to escape.
-> Roger would come to be regarded as a demon for his enemies, while Garp would come to be renowned as the devil himself for pirates. With both of them holding tremendous respect for one another despite being bitter enemies.
-> Roger's era would end with his death & Whitebeard's would start. In a close parallels to that Sengoku's reign as the Fleet Admiral would start and Garp would also pull back, as the main guy he was chasing after on the seas, was no longer there.
Swordsmanship & Brawling/fighter:
In the one piece world when you look at the top dudes out there, there are two key fighting styles that you might see. Swordsmanship & Fighting (non-weapon combat). A thematic clash between these two was brought up in the early stages of the manga:
Note that the above doesn't say "let's see who's superior between the two of us", but rather who's superior between the swordsman or the fighter (non-armed fighting style), a fight to determine the superior fighting style.
If we were to look at the top tiers of the OP World we would see:
-> Sakazuki - Fighter
-> Borsalino - Swordsman
-> Fujitora - Swordsman
-> Big Mom - Hybrid?? (Not sure whether she's the strongest with Prometheus & Zeus in her hands or with Napoleon)
-> Garp - Fighter
-> Sengoku - Fighter
-> Mihawk - Swordsman
-> Shanks - Swordsman
-> Shiki - Swordsman
-> Rocks - Swordsman
-> Kuzan - Fighter?? (tbd)
-> Green Bull - ??? (unclear atm)
-> Blackbeard - Fighter
-> Kong - Fighter???
-> Dragon - Fighter
The number of Top tiers who use weapons, in particular swordsmen, is higher than fighters who rely on Martial arts + haki or DF + haki with no weapons involved. This is also why the title of WSS holds weight because swordsmanship is the most widely used fighting style among the top tiers.
Relation to Roger & Garp:
During Roger's era we also, like this era, had a great number of swordsmen who stood at the top. But there are three that stood out the most: Shiki the Golden Lion, Dark King Rayleigh, Pirate King Gold Roger. Out of Shiki & Roger, Roger was viewed as the superior of the two by the likes of Sengoku and Shiki himself viewed Roger as a wall to overcome. Rayleigh was Roger's underling, and didn't have the same ambition as him, so there's no reason to assume he was superior to Roger. Thus making Roger the one who stood atop the swordsmen of his era. In fact the most impressive sword feats of swordsmanship in the manga even shown today are by none other than Gol D. Roger:
An attack that sent Oden, who had grew many times stronger in the four years since his clash with Whitebeard, was sent flying away and even damaged internally despite blocking the slash with his sword.
The highest level of CoA mastery shown with the sword to date (Whitebeard also reached a similar level of mastery with his Bisento that he had been fighting with since he was a child):
Some people wonder how Roger was then able to keep up with Whitebeard if their CoA mastery of weapons & if WB had superior physical prowess, the answer to that is swordsmanship techniques. Just look at the difference in attack power for Zoro's various sword techniques in the 3-sword style.
Yet many in the fandom aren't willing to label him as a swordsman. Many resorting to reasoning such as "CoC overload", when CoC would just be used in conjunction with his swordsmanship, similar to how Luffy uses it with his fists. Reasoning such as "how can he be the strongest swordsman of the era, when he's not called that", yet these fans fail to point out to anybody else besides Mihawk ever holding that title. Even the "Sword God Ryuuma" is a title limited to the land of Wano. There is no title for somebody being the strongest fighter type, yet that's what Luffy will be. Simply because Roger wasn't called the WSS (which he very well could've been for all we know), he nonetheless was the strongest sword-fighter of that era, does the man who stood at the epitome of the sword while he was alive.
--
In that same era Garp would also rise to fame as Garp The Fist. The man who fought using haki + martial art techniques (the WG martial arts that Koby/CP0/CP9/etc know). There was no other fighter type out there who could rival this man, Sengoku who was also a fighter type was viewed as Garp's inferior. And of course Garp wanting to train Luffy & Ace to be the strongest marines to ever exist, stronger than himself, with both of them also being fighters just like Garp.
Their team up against the Rocks where Roger is drawn with his sword & Garp with his fist, couldn't be more fitting to represent the two individuals who stood at the top of swordsmanship & fighter style.
But who is superior out of the two? Nobody knows... then we come to the present era.
The Present Era:
Now we have Monkey D. Luffy and Roronoa Zoro. Luffy who is aiming to surpass the admirals & yonko in prowess. Zoro who wants to be the strongest swordsman to ever live (his promise to Kuina).
It's a given to many that Luffy would surpass Garp/Roger/etc by EoS and what have you. Considering the fact Garp was training him to be the strongest marine ever since he was a baby, that's sort of a given at this point.
Issue however arises when we talk about Zoro. You see the fandom tends to cap Zoro down to characters like Mihawk and Rayleigh. But there is a big issue with that. Rayleigh wasn't the strongest swordsman of his time. With Mihawk it's unclear whether he's stronger than a 2-armed Shanks (since Shanks sacrificed his potential to "bet" on Luffy). While they are similar to Zoro in various roles and traits.. they are also very much different:
Mihawk - Has tremendous ambition, but is a loner so doesn't have the "getting stronger for others" factor (something that seems to empower people through an emotional boost and what have you when in tough situations).
Rayleigh - Has the "getting stronger for others", but has never been shown to be highly ambitious with his goal (which is visible from even when Roger just recruited him).
Zoro is a combition of both. Zoro's ambition in putting in the work rivals that of Luffy's, simply reflect to how Zoro was putting in work in becoming strong as a kid, in parrallel to Luffy putting in work to become strong with Ace. Zoro then also has the whole "getting stronger for others" factor that Shanks/Roger have/had. Where he can throw away his pride and humble himself to a point he asks the man he's aiming to train him.
That's why when we use Rayleigh or Dracule as the measuring sticks for Zoro, it's not accurate. The more accurate comparisons imo would be Roger himself who embodied great individual ambition + the whole "stronger for others" factor. Or it would be 2-armed Shanks, if he was stronger than Mihawk (which we don't really know). In fact a better comparison for somebody like Rayleigh would be, Killer from Kid's crew, who grows strong to support his captain's ambition but doesn't have his own great ambition that rivals the captain's.
Luffy & Zoro History:
In chapter 5 they meet with "The Pirate King & The Great Swordsman"
Arlong thinks of Zoro as a huge threat in the future after seeing Zoro's face when he's about to Kill Zoro. Similar moment with Smoker & Luffy at Loguetown.
Both clash at Whiskey Peak, with the winner of the fight undetermined, but both being displayed as equals
They take on Daz & Crocodile, their fights being hard fights due to simply not being able to damage their enemies because of the properties of their body.
Zoro get's his will power tested in Thriller Bark with Luffy's pain, Luffy gets his willpower tested with the treatment from ivankov.
Zoro nearly cut down a Celestial Dragon, Luffy punches a celestial Dragon.
Both clash against an admiral in Dressrosa and are pretty impressive.
Luffy trains a higher stage of CoA, Zoro gains Haki boost through Enma training, which is what Act 2 ends on.
While Luffy at times has seemed more impressive than Zoro, it's only been in situations whether Zoro either wouldn't be able to deal with the situation due to differences in the type of abilities they have (Ie, Enel vs Luffy compared to Enel vs Zoro or Luffy being able to store water and what not due to being rubber against Crocodile or being able to use the blood on his hand.. something that would've been nearly impossible for Zoro).. or it's in situations where Luffy has an all out fight, while Zoro has a small fight but is completely fine still and still has plenty of energy for more (Ie, Kaku vs Zoro compared to Lucci vs Luffy. Or at Thriller Bark where Luffy's pushed to near the end of his limit from all that damage while Zoro is still able to go on for much longer as showcased with him taking on Luffy's pain).
And contrary to the popular belief, Zoro has never considered himself inferior to Luffy. He's always questioned the superiority between the two (as seen by him challenging Luffy to the Fish challenge).
Superiority between the two is unclear and it will probably remain that way until the very end, more than likely. Fans could argue Luffy > Zoro because of the Captain > Underling logic, but that sadly wouldn't apply to Zoro as no other underling has shown an ambition that rivals their captain's. Beckman? Nope, just there supporting his captain. Marco? Nope supporting WB... Ray Ray? Nope, just supporting his captain..so on and so forth. Zoro is a sheer anomaly that doesn't exist in any One Piece crew out there, so the Captain > Underling logic doesn't apply to him.
(I had to focus on Zoro so much because he's basically the one people would question in this comparison)
Conclusion:
Who is stronger the fighter or the swordsman? That is an unanswered question when it comes to One Piece. It was never answered when Roger & Garp were there. And potentially even before that if Rocks (strongest pirate of the era) - Kong (Admiral/Fleet admiral of the era) shared a similar relationship. It isn't answered in the mid era between Dragon or Teach or Sakazuki vs 2-armed Shanks or Mihawk or Fujitora. And now this question of the fighter or the swordsman carries over to the new era of One Piece, but the twist this time is that the ones who will embody being the greatest fighter & the greatest swordsman are on the same team. Will the question get answered who is superior?? My opinion, no. Oda will more than likely leave it vague as to who is superior between the ones who stand atop these two fighting styles.
Thanks for reading and peace.
Last edited:
