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- Thread starter Guan Yu
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- Tags cruzeiro > your fav team kaneki & mutin kouen > all ousen ousen>cruzeiro riboku>ousen shin > ouhon wingdom
Did Kyoukai actually defeat 500 of KaiShibu's men? I remember she killed a lot but that's absolutely retarded
Houken might actually solo the Kanki army at this point like @Elder Lee Hung said
Houken might actually solo the Kanki army at this point like @Elder Lee Hung said
Pretty much. It was a 500 man elite unit from Kaishibou meant to go straight to Mougou's HQ. Kai's only immediate backup were injured HSU fodder of no note which she was with because she herself was injured if I recall correctly. She pretty much soloed that whole unit. The only comment made by any member of the enemy unit was all about Kyoukai being "a monster".
Kyoukai was literally pulling out feats better than what Top Tier Great Generals could achieve back when she wasn't even a 1000 man commander.
I don't like it but I honestly cannot see how Kyoukai isn't already the strongest character in Kingdom. This broad belongs in Naruto. Lol.
Kyoukai was literally pulling out feats better than what Top Tier Great Generals could achieve back when she wasn't even a 1000 man commander.
I don't like it but I honestly cannot see how Kyoukai isn't already the strongest character in Kingdom. This broad belongs in Naruto. Lol.
)I find it odd to see so many people underestimating Ou Sen.
Contrary to popular belief among some, what's happening right now isn't like what happened at Shukai. Ba Nan Ji and Fu Tei executed a pincer on the relatively small HQ of Ou Sen's 10K personal army.
Right now, Shi Ba Shou has 30,000 bodies between himself and Ou Sen. He's about to come into contact with the first line of Ou Sen's 30K personal army, and I'm not sure it'll be smooth sailing for him.
The Ou Sen Army is the most disciplined fighting force in this manga to date. They're not just protecting a general. They're protecting a king.
They are an imperial fighting force at the peak of their conditioning. I think it's entirely possible Ou Sen holds his own and then some.
Contrary to popular belief among some, what's happening right now isn't like what happened at Shukai. Ba Nan Ji and Fu Tei executed a pincer on the relatively small HQ of Ou Sen's 10K personal army.
Right now, Shi Ba Shou has 30,000 bodies between himself and Ou Sen. He's about to come into contact with the first line of Ou Sen's 30K personal army, and I'm not sure it'll be smooth sailing for him.
The Ou Sen Army is the most disciplined fighting force in this manga to date. They're not just protecting a general. They're protecting a king.
They are an imperial fighting force at the peak of their conditioning. I think it's entirely possible Ou Sen holds his own and then some.
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It is worse. It is a martial 3GH, potentially the strongest offensive power in the history of Zhao, about to attack an Ousen who has no idea what is coming for him. Futei’s pincer was immediately halted by a brutally wounded Ouhon. Bananji is great but he isn’t Shibashou.
Ousen is going to have to retreat here, especially without Akou/Denrimi/Sou’ou able to help him.
Ousen is going to have to retreat here, especially without Akou/Denrimi/Sou’ou able to help him.
Yeah forgot he has 30k under his command still. As per Ouhon he has many officers who can easily replace capable generals like Makou. Sheer quality of his force is incredible. This is a clear 1v1 shootout between Ousen and SBS armies. Ousen doesn’t know a lot about SBS - clear disadvantage while SBS or Riboku don’t know about the full capabilities of Ousen army. Quite equal matchup between heavy weights.
The prospect of facing Shi Ba Shou is considerably more dangerous than facing the combined forces of Ba Nan Ji and Fu Tei.
The present situation is not worse by virtue of 30,000 bodies between Shi Ba Shou, a monster at least on offense, and Ou Sen, a monster that rivals Ri Boku.
I don't know how you see it, but as little as is known about Shi Ba Shou, it's not like Ou Sen has shown the extent of his abilities. Shukai was a tremendous victory, and what makes it such an incredible feat is the fact Ou Sen led Qin to victory under massive constraints.
He's not leading an army starved of resources against any enemy that's not. It's been four years since Shukai, and near enough two since Ri Boku returned to lead the armies of Zhao. Ou Sen is not a complacent man. It's far too soon to write off his chances of victory. His achievements entitle him to more credit than that.
Shi Ba Shou is incredibly strong, but he is still a mortal man of flesh and bone. He is not, in fact, invincible.
The present situation is not worse by virtue of 30,000 bodies between Shi Ba Shou, a monster at least on offense, and Ou Sen, a monster that rivals Ri Boku.
I don't know how you see it, but as little as is known about Shi Ba Shou, it's not like Ou Sen has shown the extent of his abilities. Shukai was a tremendous victory, and what makes it such an incredible feat is the fact Ou Sen led Qin to victory under massive constraints.
He's not leading an army starved of resources against any enemy that's not. It's been four years since Shukai, and near enough two since Ri Boku returned to lead the armies of Zhao. Ou Sen is not a complacent man. It's far too soon to write off his chances of victory. His achievements entitle him to more credit than that.
Shi Ba Shou is incredibly strong, but he is still a mortal man of flesh and bone. He is not, in fact, invincible.
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Far too much is made of Kyou Kai's presumed limits on horseback based on something she said more than four years ago in a completely different context than you characterise. Not only is there is no reason not to consider that Kyou Kai was being being conservative out of an abundance of caution, it was a consideration she had when facing Gyou'un, an extremely dangerous man decades her senior in age and war, with whom she undoubtedly had a far greater experience gap than Ou Hon.
Kyou Kai's cavalry skills have always been on prominent display since she got her own unit, and it would seem to me Hara has only doubled down on her cavalry skills since Shukai, given her achiements at Eikyuu and at Gishi Plains.
Eikyuu
Gishi Plains
Kyou Kai may not be quite as good as Ou Hon but don't forget she is a top tier prodigy in her own right and that's she been doing this warfare thing for about 12 years now, and most of it on horseback. There is no reason to assume a significant handicap on her part at this point.
Being generous to Ou Hon, in mounted combat, Kyou Kai may have to use her breath to compensate, and she'd get a fairly easy win if she did.
On foot, she destroys him without it.
Kyou Kai's cavalry skills have always been on prominent display since she got her own unit, and it would seem to me Hara has only doubled down on her cavalry skills since Shukai, given her achiements at Eikyuu and at Gishi Plains.
Eikyuu
Gishi Plains
Kyou Kai may not be quite as good as Ou Hon but don't forget she is a top tier prodigy in her own right and that's she been doing this warfare thing for about 12 years now, and most of it on horseback. There is no reason to assume a significant handicap on her part at this point.
Being generous to Ou Hon, in mounted combat, Kyou Kai may have to use her breath to compensate, and she'd get a fairly easy win if she did.
On foot, she destroys him without it.
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Probably because she is faster than the sodding horse in close combat. She isn't used to being that slow in a fight. 
Kyoukai's mounted fighting potential will be realised once her mount can Ton Tan Tan too.
Kyoukai's mounted fighting potential will be realised once her mount can Ton Tan Tan too.
@Rumble I’m assuming she wanted to dismount Gyou’Un while she’s on foot, because she definitely ain’t using her dance on horse. If she thought bringing down a slowpoke like Gyou’Un would be difficult, then Ouhon who reached the peak of Spear technique should take her down
Its still counter intuitive for her technique to be worse off against mounted opponents, but that’s Hara driving himself into a corner after creating these bullshin type characters lmao
Even Sanyou Ouhon was so fast with his technique that he would’ve killed Rinko, if Rinko hadn’t seen similar techniques that is. This is how fast Ouhon is, from there he proceeded to gain even more speed by defeating Shi
If there’s one character I’m betting on to beat Kyoukai while mounted its Ouhon
@Rumble I’m assuming she wanted to dismount Gyou’Un while she’s on foot, because she definitely ain’t using her dance on horse. If she thought bringing down a slowpoke like Gyou’Un would be difficult, then Ouhon who reached the peak of Spear technique should take her down
Its still counter intuitive for her technique to be worse off against mounted opponents, but that’s Hara driving himself into a corner after creating these bullshin type characters lmao
Even Sanyou Ouhon was so fast with his technique that he would’ve killed Rinko, if Rinko hadn’t seen similar techniques that is. This is how fast Ouhon is, from there he proceeded to gain even more speed by defeating Shi
If there’s one character I’m betting on to beat Kyoukai while mounted its Ouhon
- the 4 year time gap
- the point on the possibility Kyou Kai was being conservative/cautious
- Gyou'un's far greater experience over Kyou Kai than Ou Hon
- the evidence I posted demonstrating Kyou Kai's cavalry skills
- the point on her prodigious talent and over a decade's worth of experience, most of which on horseback
This is not a good faith response to the effort I went through in my post. I think you know that.
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Think you’re looking too much into it, my post encompassed the general narrative of Kyoukai’s powers, which are evidently nerfed when fighting a mounted top tier
A time gap favors Ouhon if anything, I don’t see why much would change for Kyoukai
Kyoukai is an assassin through and through, don’t see why Hara would intend to trick his audience with this simple delivery
Experience in combat? Against a unique fighter like Kyoukai it shouldn’t be any different, and if any, Ouhon’s speed should be far more valuable as it counters Kyoukai’s biggest strength
In the scenario where Kyoukai confronts a mounted Gyou’Un, do you think she would’ve fought him mounted? That should be a suicide mission with reduced mobility and range. If she wants to take him om she’ll have to start from the ground and take out his mount, at least thats what makes sense to me
On mount she gets smoked by a spear user such as Ouhon
And about Rei, she was complaining of fighting fodder spear users on horse, do you actually think she stands any chance against Ouhon lol. That comment alone implies she gets 1-2 shot
A time gap favors Ouhon if anything, I don’t see why much would change for Kyoukai
Kyoukai is an assassin through and through, don’t see why Hara would intend to trick his audience with this simple delivery
Experience in combat? Against a unique fighter like Kyoukai it shouldn’t be any different, and if any, Ouhon’s speed should be far more valuable as it counters Kyoukai’s biggest strength
In the scenario where Kyoukai confronts a mounted Gyou’Un, do you think she would’ve fought him mounted? That should be a suicide mission with reduced mobility and range. If she wants to take him om she’ll have to start from the ground and take out his mount, at least thats what makes sense to me
On mount she gets smoked by a spear user such as Ouhon
And about Rei, she was complaining of fighting fodder spear users on horse, do you actually think she stands any chance against Ouhon lol. That comment alone implies she gets 1-2 shot
To actually answer your points though
Kyou Kai hadn't fought Gyou'un, she had no way of knowing his speed, and for a slowpoke he did more than fine against Ou Hon.
Ou Hon is not Kyou Kai's equal in any regard with skill, speed or technique. She was a far greater master of the sword than he is of the spear right now when she was a little girl. Do not get carried away here. There's levels to mastery. Ou Hon is closer to Shin than he has any hope of matching Kyou Rei. Never mind Kyou Kai. They're not in the same realm.
Hara did no such thing.
This is your misinterpretation.
Sanyou was 10 years ago.
There's a saying that comes to mind.
Kyou Kai hadn't fought Gyou'un, she had no way of knowing his speed, and for a slowpoke he did more than fine against Ou Hon.
Ou Hon is not Kyou Kai's equal in any regard with skill, speed or technique. She was a far greater master of the sword than he is of the spear right now when she was a little girl. Do not get carried away here. There's levels to mastery. Ou Hon is closer to Shin than he has any hope of matching Kyou Rei. Never mind Kyou Kai. They're not in the same realm.
Hara did no such thing.
This is your misinterpretation.
Sanyou was 10 years ago.
There's a saying that comes to mind.
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She was observing him, and thus figured what he‘s capable of
Ouhon was countering Gyou’Un + his 10 spears, I’d say Ouhon dominated speed wise
Gyou’Un got the best of him because Ouhon thought his right arm was out of function, turns out its not
Unless you want to convince me how Kyoukai is faster on horse than she is on the ground
Where’s the argument? He was this fast even 10 years ago, now he’s much faster
Dont be shy
Ouhon was countering Gyou’Un + his 10 spears, I’d say Ouhon dominated speed wise
Gyou’Un got the best of him because Ouhon thought his right arm was out of function, turns out its not
Unless you want to convince me how Kyoukai is faster on horse than she is on the ground
Where’s the argument? He was this fast even 10 years ago, now he’s much faster
Dont be shy
This is unsubstantiated bullshit. I've illustrated why very clearly more than once.
That's certainly a take. Growth in skill inevitably slows over time. Kyou Kai, a prodigy at seemingly everything, who unlike Shin didn't appear to struggle getting used to riding, would've made her cavalry skills more of a focus than someone who was taught a young age. The evidence is right in front of you. You just refuse to acknowledge it because it completely debunks your arguments.
Good assassins are cautious and conservative. They have nothing to prove and simply desire the easiest outcome.
In literally everything.
Ou Hon's speed is pedestration to Kyou Kai. It's a non factor.
Kyou Kai wants the easiest fight under easiest circumstances. She will always prefer the flexibility of grounded combat and prefer to fight there.
If that isn't an option, she's going for the overkill and not bothering to gauge her opponent. That's why she'd destroy Ou Hon mounted or otherwise. They are not in the same league. He is far too weak to challenge her 1v1, he doesn't have the technique, he doesn't have the speed, and he doesn't have the endurance. He loses 10 times out of 10, and Kyou Kai makes it look easy every time.
This is more unsubstantiated fantasy. You can repeat yourself all you like, your arguments remain bunk.
Kyou Rei highlighting spear uses as being tiresome to deal with while Kyou Kai is speeding through like a bullet an army of them is indicative of the overwhelming strength she has, not that Ou Hon has a prayer of winning, let alone a real chance.
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This isn't worth continuing. Your intellectual dishonesty and disingenuous replies amount to enough capitulation for me.
That's certainly a take. Growth in skill inevitably slows over time. Kyou Kai, a prodigy at seemingly everything, who unlike Shin didn't appear to struggle getting used to riding, would've made her cavalry skills more of a focus than someone who was taught a young age. The evidence is right in front of you. You just refuse to acknowledge it because it completely debunks your arguments.
Good assassins are cautious and conservative. They have nothing to prove and simply desire the easiest outcome.
In literally everything.
Ou Hon's speed is pedestration to Kyou Kai. It's a non factor.
Kyou Kai wants the easiest fight under easiest circumstances. She will always prefer the flexibility of grounded combat and prefer to fight there.
If that isn't an option, she's going for the overkill and not bothering to gauge her opponent. That's why she'd destroy Ou Hon mounted or otherwise. They are not in the same league. He is far too weak to challenge her 1v1, he doesn't have the technique, he doesn't have the speed, and he doesn't have the endurance. He loses 10 times out of 10, and Kyou Kai makes it look easy every time.
This is more unsubstantiated fantasy. You can repeat yourself all you like, your arguments remain bunk.
Kyou Rei highlighting spear uses as being tiresome to deal with while Kyou Kai is speeding through like a bullet an army of them is indicative of the overwhelming strength she has, not that Ou Hon has a prayer of winning, let alone a real chance.
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This isn't worth continuing. Your intellectual dishonesty and disingenuous replies amount to enough capitulation for me.
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You’re contradicting yourself, choose either of those
1. Kyoukai is a prodigy who mastered all combat skills at a young age
2. A time gap favors Kyoukai
What are we debating now, the philosophy of assassins lmfao
Let go of this crap, Hara wrote this dialogue for Kyoukai as is, she thinks it would be hard mounted but if she manages to dismount him she gets the win
Kyoukai wasn’t sure about her odds against Gyou’Un, dismounting him would’ve been a difficult task
That’s a fact, you can use cope arguments about Kyoukai not knowing what she’s talking about -even though she’s a prodigy who knows everything-, but that doesn’t change hardcore facts stated by the actual author lol
Now replace Gyou’Un with Ouhon, who not only fended off Gyou’Un, but his 10 spears too
Go off the crack for a sec if you wanna reach a conclusion with these debates, if you enter an argument and state that the other side’s arguments are debunked, then you’re here merely to bark and do some noise lol
You said earlier how Rei would make Ouhon look easy
Now please explain how this same Rei who finds fodder spears to be troublesome while mounted would be anything but a one shot to the best spear in the plains
Kyoukai is better than Rei, but that doesn’t mean she holds a candle against Ouhon’s technique (while mounted, naturally)
1. Kyoukai is a prodigy who mastered all combat skills at a young age
2. A time gap favors Kyoukai
What are we debating now, the philosophy of assassins lmfao
Let go of this crap, Hara wrote this dialogue for Kyoukai as is, she thinks it would be hard mounted but if she manages to dismount him she gets the win
Kyoukai wasn’t sure about her odds against Gyou’Un, dismounting him would’ve been a difficult task
That’s a fact, you can use cope arguments about Kyoukai not knowing what she’s talking about -even though she’s a prodigy who knows everything-, but that doesn’t change hardcore facts stated by the actual author lol
Now replace Gyou’Un with Ouhon, who not only fended off Gyou’Un, but his 10 spears too
Go off the crack for a sec if you wanna reach a conclusion with these debates, if you enter an argument and state that the other side’s arguments are debunked, then you’re here merely to bark and do some noise lol
You said earlier how Rei would make Ouhon look easy
Now please explain how this same Rei who finds fodder spears to be troublesome while mounted would be anything but a one shot to the best spear in the plains
Kyoukai is better than Rei, but that doesn’t mean she holds a candle against Ouhon’s technique (while mounted, naturally)