Is Bleach Better than Kingdom?


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CGR is primarily a tactician that can also fight. Rinko is smart (trained by Geppou afterall) but he relies mostly on offensive power.

CGR's defense in Shukai Plains is stated to be worthy of Great Heavens. Rinko guardbreaks Ouki's defense (who is obviously on par with GH), land a hit and leave a scar on Ouki and live to tell another day.

CGR is smarter than Rinko but I have to give martial might to Rinko since that's his specialty.
 
Rinko spent the majority of his time going after 1000 man commanders and middling Generals like Ei Bei? Was that his name? Dude was so unimportant that I can't even remember his name. Lol. Those are the people Rinko went out of his way to target, the targets he actually chose.
He choose to target them, because that was the plan. To disrupt the chain of command and criple their army. I don't see how is that an arguement against him given that he was pretty much oneshoting them.

I don't get the idea as to why people think Rinko is some super uber 1v1 fighter when he always targeted weak, isolated opponents. He relied way more on tactics and strategy than he did brawn, just like Chougaryuu. Both were primarily tacticians that were also decent fighters. They were even compared to each other in Shukai. Lol.
Eh, what? Rinko was primarily presented as a frontline commander. His most hype moment was surviving a close encounter with Ouki and leaving him with scar. He also has a legit victory against Ouhon who already was quite skilled spear user.

If Rinko's weight was as spectacular as you make it out to be, he wouldn't have lost to Sanyou Shin. Lol.
Then good thing that Rinko never lost to Sanyou Shin in 1 vs 1 duel.

At the end Shin was close to hiting his limit.

And Sosui jumping in front of Rinko gave Shin the opening for counter.

 
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Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
But that's still combat oriented feats which Rinko is good at.
Not necessarily. Rinko’s specialty is breaking through enemy armies, which is not the same as being a general focused on martial might.

The Ten Heroes were generals focused on martial might. It was explicitly told to us that they shouldered the martial burden of the Rinshoujou army since he himself couldn’t fight. Such a statement was never even implied about Rinko, his big hype again was that he broke through Ouki’s defensive formations which again was probably just due to the Rindou and his surgical strikes which even Renpa couldn’t stop.

So yeah. Frankly I’d be surprised if Rinko could beat a single Ten Hero 1v1 since it was these guys explicit jobs to shoulder the martial burden of a 3GH army.
 
Not necessarily. Rinko’s specialty is breaking through enemy armies, which is not the same as being a general focused on martial might.
When he is breaking through enemy armies he is leading his forces from the front with swords in his hands. Sure, he is using a special formation for this job, but his own martial might plays an important role in this task. And the purpose of this tactic in the first place is for Rinko to get into enemy's HQ and kill him using his martial might.

The Ten Heroes were generals focused on martial might. It was explicitly told to us that they shouldered the martial burden of the Rinshoujou army since he himself couldn’t fight. Such a statement was never even implied about Rinko, his big hype again was that he broke through Ouki’s defensive formations which again was probably just due to the Rindou and his surgical strikes which even Renpa couldn’t stop.
This is such a ridiculus arguement I don't even know how to react to this. Yes, all of Ten Heroes were capable warriors and thus were covering in that regard RSJ who couldn't fight at all. That doesn't mean they were all generals focused on martial might. In fact it's been pretty clear that Chougaryuu is first and foremost a commander focused on tactics who most of the time commands from his HQ. This guy decided to duel Shin only after geting pressed to the wall and having no other option. He even explained how in the past when facing martial generals like Kyou and Ouki he was using flanking manouvers to counter them. It's his martial that is an addition to his tactics, not the other way around.

You even get this in their nicknames. Rinko is Renpa's Flying Spear, he is the guy who you sent to kill someone. Chougaryuu is Rinshoujo's Shield, someone who's role is defence and counters.

So yeah. Frankly I’d be surprised if Rinko could beat a single Ten Hero 1v1 since it was these guys explicit jobs to shoulder the martial burden of a 3GH army.
It was never stated that it was their explicit jobs. But given that you are willing to put nameless generals without feats above Rinko due to this one weg statement just shows how biased you are in this discussion.
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
When he is breaking through enemy armies he is leading his forces from the front with swords in his hands.
Rinko doesn’t break through enemy armies until the enemies have lost their minor commanders and have suffered from lack of cohesion. This is completely different from all other martial generals who don’t spend days killing the enemy’s minor commanders before breaking through them with highly advanced tactics like the Ryuudou.

Yes, all of Ten Heroes were capable warriors and thus were covering in that regard RSJ who couldn't fight at all. That doesn't mean they were all generals focused on martial might.
They absolutely were.


All of the Ten Heroes shouldered the martial burden of the Rinshoujou army. Because Rinshoujou couldn’t do so himself. And that most certainly includes Garyuu, Rinshoujou’s number 2 lol.

He even explained how in the past when facing martial generals like Kyou and Ouki he was using flanking manouvers to counter them.
And how does that mean Garyuu didn’t fight them? Here is what Gyou’Un said on the matter:


Gyou’Un describes he and Garyuu both as “those who exchanged blows with the Great Generals of an era past”.

Garyuu flanking Ouki and Kyou doesn’t mean he never fought them lol. It just means he preferred to strike them using tactics rather than from head on.

You even get this in their nicknames. Rinko is Renpa's Flying Spear, he is the guy who you sent to kill someone.
Rinko has never been sent to kill anyone stronger than a 1,000 man commander, lol

The point of him being Renpa’s flying spear was Renpa’s quote, that once he unleashed Rinko, nobody could stop him.

And how would Chougaryuu being Rinshoujou’s shield mean he hasn’t fought with the 6GG? To me that would seem to imply that he’s definitely fought them lol. As he was the guy defending Rinshoujou from their attacks.

It was never stated that it was their explicit jobs.
It was. Again:

 
He choose to target them, because that was the plan. To disrupt the chain of command and criple their army. I don't see how is that an arguement against him given that he was pretty much oneshoting them.
Point is, he wasn't going out of his way to go after martial heavy hitters. Literally the only time we saw him get into extended fights was when other people went after him.
Eh, what? Rinko was primarily presented as a frontline commander. His most hype moment was surviving a close encounter with Ouki and leaving him with scar. He also has a legit victory against Ouhon who already was quite skilled spear user.
Gaku Ei and Shoumou are frontline commanders, that doesn't mean they are guaranteed to be a 1v1 kings. They are guaranteed to slaughter swathes of fodder, not dominate duels.

Yes he is quite a capable fighter, so is Chougaryuu. I don't see these fellas mid diffing each other like other folk are claiming. Lol.
Then good thing that Rinko never lost to Sanyou Shin in 1 vs 1 duel.

At the end Shin was close to hiting his limit.

And Sosui jumping in front of Rinko gave Shin the opening for counter.

Yes, I am well aware that Sanyou Shin got some assistance against Rinko. Thing is, if Rinko was capable of smacking around an injured Shukai Shin then Sanyou Shin would be dead regardless of assistance.

Choyou Shin was fighting Gaimou. That Shin had martially surpassed Rinko. Shukai is a few arcs after that. Lol.
 
Rinko doesn’t break through enemy armies until the enemies have lost their minor commanders and have suffered from lack of cohesion. This is completely different from all other martial generals who don’t spend days killing the enemy’s minor commanders before breaking through them with highly advanced tactics like the Ryuudou.
And he also is killing all those minor comanders by using his personal might. Just because Rinko is using his martial ability in a smart way doesn't change the fact that his combat prowess is his main weapon.



They absolutely were.


All of the Ten Heroes shouldered the martial burden of the Rinshoujou army. Because Rinshoujou couldn’t do so himself. And that most certainly includes Garyuu, Rinshoujou’s number 2 lol.
Yes, I know the quote refers to all of them. That doesn't mean it was their main job like you're trying to prove. This quote only shows that they all could fight while Rinshoujo couldn't. It doesn't say anything about their style.



And how does that mean Garyuu didn’t fight them? Here is what Gyou’Un said on the matter:


Gyou’Un describes he and Garyuu both as “those who exchanged blows with the Great Generals of an era past”.

Garyuu flanking Ouki and Kyou doesn’t mean he never fought them lol. It just means he preferred to strike them using tactics rather than from head on.
"Exchanging blows" doesn't have to be literal, it could just mean he was facing them in battle. In fact we got a similar statement with how Kyouen "crossed swords with 6GG" when Kyouen is not even using a sword. Again, just a poetic way to say he was battling them.



Rinko has never been sent to kill anyone stronger than a 1,000 man commander, lol

The point of him being Renpa’s flying spear was Renpa’s quote, that once he unleashed Rinko, nobody could stop him.
Lmao, he canonically killed at least two generals and was sent against Ouki.

And Renpa hyping up Rinko as an unstoppable offensive force is even more of an arguement for this.

And how would Chougaryuu being Rinshoujou’s shield mean he hasn’t fought with the 6GG? To me that would seem to imply that he’s definitely fought them lol. As he was the guy defending Rinshoujou from their attacks.
Chougaryuu's nickname was brought forth specifically for his defensive formations and tactics. It was even described as 'his true colors'.

And Chougaryuu himself said how he was facing them - by using tactical manouvers. We are literally talking about a guy who on Shukai Plains only decided to duel when he had no other option left.



Yes, I am well aware that Sanyou Shin got some assistance against Rinko. Thing is, if Rinko was capable of smacking around an injured Shukai Shin then Sanyou Shin would be dead regardless of assistance.

Choyou Shin was fighting Gaimou. That Shin had martially surpassed Rinko. Shukai is a few arcs after that. Lol.
In general Shin can be a pretty inconsistant fighter. The version of Shin that faced Chougaryuu was Shin who had to overpower Chougaryuu's kill-zone and face his two top warriors. And it was pointed out on more then one ocasion to be badly wounded including a hole in his chest. You can also argue that he still didn't got used to Ouki's glaive to the fullest.

 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
And he also is killing all those minor comanders by using his personal might. Just because Rinko is using his martial ability in a smart way doesn't change the fact that his combat prowess is his main weapon.
For the most part, killing minor commanders is a pretty irrelevant feat. It is very rare that we actually meet singular minor commanders who pose a martial threat to actual generals. Especially someone like Rinko who could already one shot standard generals like Eibei.

Yes, I know the quote refers to all of them. That doesn't mean it was their main job like you're trying to prove. This quote only shows that they all could fight while Rinshoujo couldn't. It doesn't say anything about their style.
Their style is not relevant, I’m not sure why their styles would determine anything different about their martial ability. If Riboku is telling you all of them shared the martial burden of the RSJ army, it shouldn’t matter what roles they shared because we know they shouldered the army’s martial burden.

"Exchanging blows" doesn't have to be literal, it could just mean he was facing them in battle. In fact we got a similar statement with how Kyouen "crossed swords with 6GG" when Kyouen is not even using a sword. Again, just a poetic way to say he was battling them.
If you ignore the context about the Ten Heroes shouldering Rinshoujou’s martial burden, sure.

This argument only works if you deliberately ignore the context of how each army works to begin with.

Lmao, he canonically killed at least two generals and was sent against Ouki.
He wasn’t sent to kill those generals specifically. Btw, who was the second general he killed? I only remember Eibei.

Rinko has only ever been specifically sent to kill 1,000 man commanders. Contrast this with Gyou’Un who Rinshoujou regularly used as a Great General slayer:


And Renpa hyping up Rinko as an unstoppable offensive force is even more of an arguement for this.
Renpa specifically made this quote when Rinko was heading out for his night-time assassinations lol. So no. Again, context.

And Chougaryuu himself said how he was facing them - by using tactical manouvers. We are literally talking about a guy who on Shukai Plains only decided to duel when he had no other option left.
No, Chougaryuu said he had found this to be their weakness. There is no quote from Chougaryuu stating he never fought the Qin 6 and instead preferred to pincer them. Again, he was just identifying a weakness of commanders who lead from the front.

The version of Shin that faced Chougaryuu was Shin who had to overpower Chougaryuu's kill-zone and face his two top warriors. And it was pointed out on more then one ocasion to be badly wounded including a hole in his chest. You can also argue that he still didn't got used to Ouki's glaive to the fullest.
If we go on nitpicking every opponent Shin beat while wounded, there will be none of them left (aside from Gakuhaku Kou Sama). Hell Rinko himself died to a severely wounded Shin.

This is a stronger version of the Shin who fought Gaimou, who would one shot Rinko on the worst day of his career.
 
In general Shin can be a pretty inconsistant fighter. The version of Shin that faced Chougaryuu was Shin who had to overpower Chougaryuu's kill-zone and face his two top warriors. And it was pointed out on more then one ocasion to be badly wounded including a hole in his chest. You can also argue that he still didn't got used to Ouki's glaive to the fullest.

Yes, I am again well aware that the Shukai Shin that Chougaryuu faced was injured, hence why I referred to him as
injured Shukai Shin
Same injured Shin went on to kill a maimed Houken the next day. Houken. Houken.

Besides, we don't harp on about the minor recovery time Shin had from his Rinko inflicted injury that sliced deep into his arm. Round 2 Sanyou Shin wasn't exactly fresh either.

He was used to Ouki's glaive by then. The entire segment with Shin vs Gaku Ei was to show that Shin could then bring Ouki's glaive to bear quickly and paralleled a scene with Duke Hyou. The CGR fight happened after that.
Look mate, I don't see why I should be more impressed by Rinko high diffing a Shin weaker than the one Riboku swatted like a fly in a head on clash over a CGR that had a short but intense fight with a Shin that killed Houken. I think I am being more than generous to Rinko all things considered. Lol.
 
Chougaryuu would do the same thing, for a shorter amount of time lol.
:saden:Sure

Look mate, I don't see why I should be more impressed by Rinko high diffing a Shin weaker than the one Riboku swatted like a fly in a head on clash over a CGR that had a short but intense fight with a Shin that killed Houken. I think I am being more than generous to Rinko all things considered. Lol.
Can CGR do this? =>


Mouten knew that Rinko would have killed Mougou - the supreme commander. He was so scared for his grandpa's life that he decided to sacrifice his army. They launched a joint invasion against Rinko's army. I repeat, Mouten, Ouhon and Shin all fought against a single army, you think thats a joke?

Do you ever disagree with Lee on anything?
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
Shin and Ouhon would have been dead long before it ever came to this lol. I repeat, this is what Garyuu did to the Shin that killed Houken:


I repeat, Mouten, Ouhon and Shin all fought against a single army, you think thats a joke?
What does this have to do with martial prowess? Rinko as a commander was GG level, as a solo General he probably would have defeated Mougou by himself.

But that has little to do with martial prowess. Genpou could have also defeated Mougou by himself, and Genpou wasn’t a fighter at all.

Your prowess as a general =/= your prowess as a fighter. As a general Rinko poses a threat to Qin 6 level generals. As a fighter he gets mid diffed by Shuma.
 
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