Is Bleach Better than Kingdom?


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So Ba Fuu Ji has died in the very arc he was introduced in, with his death not even being witnessed by his father who currently seems to be out searching for an ancient Chinese milk store, all to achieve a grand total of a couple of interrupted fights and one decent speech?

What was the point of this character? :risicheck:

Once again, it should have been Futei... :josad:
You know what time it is :pepebuggy:
 
Kanki is definitely one of my favorite characters in the series tbh. He was entertaining and was different to all the characters we were shown in Qin’s side. I don’t agree with his actions and rage but he was entertaining and different. Him dying just after giving us hope of a comeback is kind of weird lol. Glad he got another kill. I would’ve preferred one more kill before he kicked the bucket.
 
Kanki >>> Kyou Kai
Will have to flat out disagree with you on this bro. You might think Kanki is cooler or like him more. However, from sheer writing point of Kyoukai is a MUCH better written character.

Even if she has her gimmick with the breathing, that's something fully within the confines of the manga rules/laws that Hara established within the first 100 chapters of the series. And despite that insanely OP gimmick of breathing, Hara uses it within the confines of his writing of other characters. Shin/Houken/etc aren't being written bad in order to make Kyoukai look good.


While Kanki has a cool/edgy design that people often like in the anime community (Just refer to how edgelords/emo/gothic lookin mfs like the Uchiha/gin/aizen/doffy/etc etc are so popular within Narutfandom/bleach/onepiece/etc). And he has those "badass" one-liners were on the surface would get fans going "OOHHH SHITTT. HE JUST OWNED YOU BITCCHH!!!!!!!!! KANKIGOAATT!!!!", that comes with those type of edgy characters.

But his creation as a character is inherently flawed. We are in a manga about warfare and tactics, with philosophical geniuses such as Rishi, warfare geniuses such as Riboku/Renpa/SHK/Ousen/etc. Amongst all of them you have a general who's meant to be at the peak, based on solely gimmicks.

And Hara flipflops with this idea of making Kanki a gimmick character or making him a legit general. When he's written as a legit genius of warfare he's solid, but the issue is for majority of the manga he's written as a gimmick. His introduction is Hara showing us him being legit at proper warfare tactics. With the elaborative formation he used to set up his camp:



He's introduced as a tactical genius, not a gimmick genius. He has a proper understanding of formations and battle tactics.

We go from that to then him taking out Genpo with the brilliant strategy of... sneaking in dressed as the enemy. This is meant to be a "ooohhhhhhhh unparalleled!!! CRAZZY!!! OMGG!!" Which it would be if we're talking about somebody like a 100-man commander Shin doing it and the opposition was a some random general. But this basic shit is portrayed as high-level genius tactic between Kanki & Genpo.

Hara then proceeds to repeat the same in the Coalition Arc, where coalition members go blind like dumbfucks in order for that strategy to work.

Then we move on to Keisha, I don't know how anyone who has studied warfare even within KINGDOM/Ravagers of Time/ADSTRA or actual warfare, can look at that arc and say Kanki beat Keisha with a genius level strategy. He didn't, but that's the impression Hara wants to put on the reader.

Then we have the Kouchou arc, which is solid for the most part except for minor parts that involves some disbelief for Kanki's strategy to work. But for the most part it's solid work for Hara on Kanki.


So we have gone a fuck ton of the manga, with major arcs about this character. But it took Hara 500+ chapters to bring up this man being genius in battlefield formations:



And him being a genius who can utilize formations and proper strategies, was this mystery that was supposed to be his weakness... Despite his character's introductory hype being based on him being able to utilize proper top tier formations.


-> Kyoukai has the breath thing that gets revealed properly later. No problem, there's fuck ton of assassin clans who utilize that. Things like aura already exist in Kingdom. Ouki/Duke hyou are literally giving magical boosts to their men by simply being at the front. I don't need to suspend my belief, because her supernatural shit fits perfectly fine within a manga that establishes there being supernatural powers. Or hell even before Kyoukai's intro we have people like Rankai or mountain people sensing people dying, Ouki's superhuman physical body, etc etc.

-> Kyoukai is introduced as a natural genius at warfare, after having participated in her first war, where she displays a fundamental understanding of the GO. Despite having no formal military tactical training. But this also is not an issue, as we already had Hyou who had a great understanding of strategy despite only being a slave.

-> Her whole bringing Shin back to life. That happens after we already find out people can talk to those who have died with Ei Sei.

Everything about her character is within the laws Hara established about his universe of fantasy China in which Kingdom takes place. There's no disbelief required for the shit she does. She's a near flawless written character if anything. Now people might subjectively not like her for whatever reasons (Ie, people complaining about how she steals light from Shin or holds him back or w.e people's personal beliefs). But from a writing point of view there's no flaw in her character.

But the most important thing... her character doesn't cause a flaw in the writing of Kingdom, which Kanki's does. And he does, because a character like that simply does not work in a manga like Kingdom. His character is more suited for shit like Naruto where he would fit alongside the Uchiha. Or shit like One Piece, where he would fit alongside the likes of Doflamingo. Universes where gimmicks carry people, where the top IQ established for the people isn't that high.

Where we don't need to suspend our belief about a guy who's meant to be Qin 6 level person, Kanki, using low-tier tactics to take out somebody like Genpo who could be a Chief of Military. I mean the highest level strategy in One Piece to date is Squardo-Whitebeard plan by Sengoku, Kanki fits in perfectly within a universe like that. But in a manga where we have Duke/Renpa/SHK/Ouki/Tou/Karin/SHK/etc.... that gimmick shit with basic level tactics requires insane amount of disbelief and bad writing to make it work.

Post automatically merged:

-while ringoku fighting bafuji in a qucik move kanki kill bafuji inon hit while he is moving
bafuji got killed .

Post automatically merged:

A famous philosopher from Han visits Qin and meets with Sei. After that probably another war with Zhao or an original not historical war with Wei (since the truce should be over soon)
OHHHH SHIIITT If this does happen... we might be getting more seeds of Legalism vs Confucianism planted, for post-unification shit.




LETS GO. We might get a legit philosophical debate since Ryo vs Sei (I consider riboku vs sei to be political rather than philosophical). I just hope this isn't an Ei Sei wank, and instead we get the Confucius dude vs Rishi doing it properly. Ei Sei and etc can take notes on the side.
:milaugh:
 
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We go from that to then him taking out Genpo with the brilliant strategy of... sneaking in dressed as the enemy. This is meant to be a "ooohhhhhhhh unparalleled!!! CRAZZY!!! OMGG!!" Which it would be if we're talking about somebody like a 100-man commander Shin doing it and the opposition was a some random general. But this basic shit is portrayed as high-level genius tactic between Kanki & Genpo.
?

I don’t think we’re reading the same manga. Genpo straight up tells Kanki that what he did can’t be considered strategy, to which Kanki himself agrees, saying that he doesn’t give a shit about strategy or tactics. He just does shit to piss people off. He reiterates this sentiment again in Kokuyou Hills when he gives up the central hill and everyone loses their minds at what should be a major decision-making failure. He doesn’t care about strategy. Never has, never will. Other characters try to define his style through their own personal biases, ideologies and experiences, but these don’t accurately represent Kanki or his style of warfare at all. The story doesn’t and never has portrayed Kanki as falling into the neat paradigm of military strategists and tacticians such as Shouheikun, Ten and even Riboku. For better or worse, no one else can do what he does because they follow regular logic. Kanki does not.


And him being a genius who can utilize formations and proper strategies, was this mystery that was supposed to be his weakness... Despite his character's introductory hype being based on him being able to utilize proper top tier formations.
Another reading comprehension fail. Kanki made an unusual formation and proceeded to troll Riboku and even his own men by sending them out and withdrawing them, seemingly haphazardly. Even after his momentary shock, Riboku quickly deduced that the tips of the X formation were its weak point, so how is this a top tier formation? Kanki was trolling and stalling for time, not trying to execute an actual military strategy. And it worked.

There is no low tier or high tier strategy with Kanki. He makes insane, conventional logic-defying all-or-nothing plays in which he gambles his own life against the life of the enemy commander.
 
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?

I don’t think we’re reading the same manga. Genpo straight up tells Kanki that what he did can’t be considered strategy, to which Kanki himself agrees, saying that he doesn’t give a shit about strategy or tactics. He just does shit to piss people off. He reiterates this sentiment again in Kokuyou Hills when he gives up the central hill and everyone loses their minds at what should be a major decision-making failure. He doesn’t care about strategy. Never has, never does. Other characters try to define his style through their own personal biases, ideologies and experiences, but these don’t accurately represent Kanki or his style of warfare at all. The story doesn’t and never has portrayed Kanki into the neat paradigm of military strategists and tacticians such as Shouheikun, Ten and even Riboku. For better or worse, no one else can do what he does because they follow regular logic. Kanki does not.
????

You didn't counter a single thing I stated in that very quote. The fact you mentioned what Genpo said it being not considered a strategy is proving my point, and is literally supporting the overarching point I am making when talking about Kanki's character and Hara's fumbling with it within Kingdom-verse. So I would really suggest rereading what I stated in that quote to which you're replying. My post has nothing to do with what Kanki cares about or what kanki believes or anything from Kanki's personal point of view on strategy as a character, majority of your post is going off on a tangent.




Another reading comprehension fail. Kanki made an unusual formation and proceeded to troll Riboku and even his own men by sending them out and withdrawing them, seemingly haphazardly. Even after his momentary shock, Riboku quickly deduced that the tips of the X formation were its weak point, so how is this a top tier formation? Kanki was trolling and stalling for time, not trying to execute an actual military strategy. And it worked.

There is no low tier or high tier strategy with Kanki. He makes insane, conventional logic-defying all-or-nothing plays in which he gambles his own life against the life of the enemy commander.
Oh I had a reading comprehension fail huh... I see appreciate you telling me. But sadly your reply is not countering what I stated. And you also seem to be in a weird misunderstanding of what happened in that engagement with Riboku-Kanki, because it was far from "trolling", rather I'd consider that a disingenuous and an insulting term to describe what Kanki did there, considering it's his best feat as a proper great general. So if you'd allow me, with my bad reading comprehension, to break down what happened in Kanki-Riboku. Also, before the breakdown.. just so you know, simply because Riboku figures out the formation and it's weak points after seeing it, doesn't mean it's not top tier lol. Riboku is not the minimum standard for "top tier strategy" that mf is virtually the maximum bar if anything.

Riboku in the chapter 480s: "We know of Kanki's weakness"
Riboku in chapter 724:

Chapter 725: Kanki makes an actual battle formation.


The background scenario: Kanki army is surrounded in an overwhelming fashion, and he needs to escape with his army. His opponent, Riboku (stupidly) believes Kanki has 0 knowledge of fundamental tactics aka battle formations, which is why he'd never done a straight face to face matchup against any general he's faced. Because of this belief Riboku had in Kanki not knowing how to utilize actual battle formations, he believed Kanki would sit there helplessly.

But what does Kanki do to prove Riboku wrong? He showcases he has a perfectly great understanding of battle formations

Kanki sends a message to all of his chiefs and effectively changes his army into a cross formation, with a square formation in the center, and a smaller square formation inside it with Kanki at the very center of this formation.

Riboku is initially stunned by this, but then deduces it's all a simple bluff.


Going with the belief that Kanki's formation that he had never seen before was nothing more than a bluff that would be incapable of doing anything to them, and was only put out by Kanki to make the Zhao make unnecessary changes to their own formation which could give Kanki a chance to escape. Riboku then deduces that if they just attack the legs the battle formation would fall with minimal effort. And thus he gives out that order, fully confident that they would break down the formation. Because to Riboku the formation does not accomplish anything.


Riboku after sending out the units and attacking the legs was confident that Kanki was simply wasting time and soldiers because the formation wasn't gone do jackshit. And that his chances of winning aka escaping were 0%.

^^ After the above, with Riboku intently watching, Kanki gives the order for Koku'ou to set out from the middle.


As you can see from the above the formation could allowe Koku'ou to pincer the Zhao armies that were attacking the legs. And knowing that, Kanki had Koku'ou hold herself there. This served as a potential threat to the Zhao forces that were attacking, who were now afraid of being hit from the rear.

He then calls back Koku'ou and proceeds to repeat it with Ringyoku, the exact same scenario. To which the Zhao army that was attacking the legs, reacted the same way with lessening their assault on the legs and being partially distracted. Riboku the very man who said it was nothing more than a bluff, that it wouldn't do shit except just waste time for the inevitable death of Kanki. That Riboku was now starting to realize something.



With Riboku still intently watching, Kanki proceeds to do the same with Shuuma after calling Ringyoku back. To which Maron, a good strategist, tells Kanki to cut it off and that it was useless. And Maron is about to say something starting off with "we're all gonna..."


Kanki then finishes off what Maron was about to say... that yea he's wasting their time. The same Riboku who said the formation ain't shit and confidently sent out his armies to attack the legs... is now realizing.. oh wait a minute..


Riboku realizes that the purpose of the formation by Kanki was to throw them off and buy him time for the sunset so he could escape. Then he makes the deduction that Kanki would try to pierce through his right. And Kanki of course then orders the right side of his army to start attacking.



The Zhao commanders who were about to be hit by the right side kanki army start to mock the Kanki army calling the formation pitiful and etc. Riboku however, also realizes that Kanki's formation had more purpose than just buying time. Kanki also used that formation to probe the Zhao armies. Tactically trying to figure out which parts of the Zhao armies would take longer to respond.

And guess what happened? He succeeded in breaking out through his right. How? Thanks to his battle formation.

Battle formations are used for different purposes. Kanki utilized a battle formation that'd allow him to effectively escape from a cage set up by Riboku, of which Riboku was certain Kanki could not. Kanki did not do so by mere "trolling", he did so by utilizing proper battle tactics. What were those tactics? He set up his army in a cross formation which made Riboku attack the legs in fear that if he attacked the middle the legs would collapse on the attacking Zhao army from the sides.

Kanki seeing that utilized the centers of his formation to serve as potential threats to the attacking Zhao armies with fear of a pincer, which served as buying them more time (in case you didn't know feints have been used in this series to buy time or taunt people). While using that feint as also a way of probing the Zhao armies.

^^^ None of that is possible without having knowledge of formations and military tactics. And to imply he simply came up with an absurd formation to troll Riboku is just insanely disingenuous bruhz. No random ass bum general in this series is pulling off such a formation and utilizing it in such a manner. Now that was a formation Kanki pulled out to escape an impossible encirclement

---------------------------------------------------------------
Kanki has also utilized top tier defensive formations. Rinko here tried to attack Kanki's HQ to slice and dice some commanders and weaken his army. The moment he got to his HQ, he saw this formation.


The formation was strange to a point, that Rinko who could see clear openings within it, knew that he'd be wiped out if he tried attacking it.


^^^ Hara used that very defensive formation Kanki had set up, which forced Rinko back, without him even trying to infiltrate it... to point out Kanki being Qin 6 level.


The same hype that was given to Kanki by Hara, when he utilized this recent formation.


To say he doesn't care about strategy in general is just flat out wrong, since those tricks and such are all part of strategy. Now I assume you mean he doesn't care about battle tactics/formations/etc, which is also just flat out wrong, because he does. And not only does he care about them, he has a high understanding of tactics/formations/etc. As displayed with the above two examples, particularly in his peak utilization of the cross formation. Hara however, simply never writes scenarios/situations for him with those, and those are the two scenarios he has written. The man spent YEARS as a Vice-General under Mougou, the Fundamental tactical god, and being alongside Ousen. He greatly respected Mougou as well, you're deluding yourself if you think this man made it to where he is now a Qin 6 member with 0 understanding/care about actual military tactics. It's simply not realistic or possible, this isn't One Piece or Naruto my guy.
 
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Rest in peace Kanki, Hakuki is proud and is waiting for you in the afterlife.


YESSSSSSSSS MY BRUDDA!!!!!! YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU HAVE DELIVERED ME THE BEST NEWS OF THE YEAR SO FAR!!!!!!!!!!! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


THESE QIN MONKIES FIRST GOT LUCKY WITH KING OUKEN & TOUJOU SAVING THEIR BUMASSES FROM THE GOAT!!!!


BUT DESPITE THE PLOT ARMOR AND OVERLY MILKED OUT ARC!!!! THE REIGN OF THE GOAT HAS BEGUN!!!!!!!!!

THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN IN CHINA IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QIN MONKIES BEST GO POWERUP SHIN INTO SSJ4! CAUSE THE GOAT AIN'T GOING NOWHERE!!!!!!!!!!


THE GOAT WHO PROMISED US GLORY, HE PROMISED US REVENGE, HE PROMISED US VICTORY, HE PROMISED US OVERWHELMING NUMBERS, HE PROMISED US A RETURN LIKE NO OTHER!!


WE THE ONES WHO STOOD TALL
WE THE ONES WHO STOOD THE INSULTS
WE THE ONES WHO BELIEVED
WE THE ONES WHO NEVER GAVE WAY
WE THE ONES WHO PREPARED HIS ENTRY
NOW HE HAS DELIVERED US!!!!!!!




PRAISE BE TO THE GOAT!!!!!!!!!!!


FOR HE HAS DELIVERED US!!!!!!!! TO THE PROMISED DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



:christnally::christnally::christnally:
 
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YESSSSSSSSS MY BRUDDA!!!!!! YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU HAVE DELIVERED ME THE BEST NEWS OF THE YEAR SO FAR!!!!!!!!!!! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


THESE QIN MONKIES FIRST GOT LUCKY WITH KING OUKEN & TOUJOU SAVING THEIR BUMASSES FROM THE GOAT!!!!


BUT DESPITE THE PLOT ARMOR AND OVERLY MILKED OUT ARC!!!! THE REIGN OF THE GOAT HAS BEGUN!!!!!!!!!

THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN IN CHINA IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QIN MONKIES BEST GO POWERUP SHIN INTO SSJ4! CAUSE THE GOAT AIN'T GOING NOWHERE!!!!!!!!!!


THE GOAT WHO PROMISED US GLORY, HE PROMISED US VEGENACE, HE PROMISED US VICTORY, HE PROMISED US OVERWHELMING NUMBERS, HE PROMISED US A RETURN LIKE NO OTHER!!


WE THE ONES WHO STOOD TALL
WE THE ONES WHO STOOD THE INSULTS
WE THE ONES WHO BELIEVED
WE THE ONES WHO NEVER GAVE WAY
WE THE ONES WHO PREPARED HIS ENTRY
NOW HE HAS DELIVERED US!!!!!!!




PRAISE BE TO THE GOAT!!!!!!!!!!!


FOR HE HAS DELIVERED US!!!!!!!! TO THE PROMISED DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



:christnally::christnally::christnally:
Oho
 
Another reading comprehension fail. Kanki made an unusual formation and proceeded to troll Riboku and even his own men by sending them out and withdrawing them, seemingly haphazardly. Even after his momentary shock, Riboku quickly deduced that the tips of the X formation were its weak point, so how is this a top tier formation? Kanki was trolling and stalling for time, not trying to execute an actual military strategy. And it worked.

There is no low tier or high tier strategy with Kanki. He makes insane, conventional logic-defying all-or-nothing plays in which he gambles his own life against the life of the enemy commander.
Kanki fooling the so called "most dangerous" man with his "X" formation was the best thing in the whole series and that was when Riboku claimed Kanki has no knowledge about formations but still achieved the goal of wasting time and getting out of encirclement.

Kanki never had any need of learning or implementing high level formations. He toyed the greatest of the series (including fake dangerous man) with his tactics and mind game alone so why would he be in need of formations.

Recently Riboku got nearly died thrice and got rolled on the floor eating all dirt and even got his head open (sliced) for making this naive statement "i know Kanki's weakness" but in actuality it was Riboku's good luck that he's still breathing in one piece currently. Lol
 
Kinda sad the most handsome flying six general member got killed, i cant see riboku death now because based on history zhao is the last region to be conquered and in this manga i think riboku is the reason.
Cant wait to see how this battle end.
 

YESSSSSSSSS MY BRUDDA!!!!!! YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU HAVE DELIVERED ME THE BEST NEWS OF THE YEAR SO FAR!!!!!!!!!!! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


THESE QIN MONKIES FIRST GOT LUCKY WITH KING OUKEN & TOUJOU SAVING THEIR BUMASSES FROM THE GOAT!!!!


BUT DESPITE THE PLOT ARMOR AND OVERLY MILKED OUT ARC!!!! THE REIGN OF THE GOAT HAS BEGUN!!!!!!!!!

THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN IN CHINA IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QIN MONKIES BEST GO POWERUP SHIN INTO SSJ4! CAUSE THE GOAT AIN'T GOING NOWHERE!!!!!!!!!!


THE GOAT WHO PROMISED US GLORY, HE PROMISED US REVENGE, HE PROMISED US VICTORY, HE PROMISED US OVERWHELMING NUMBERS, HE PROMISED US A RETURN LIKE NO OTHER!!


WE THE ONES WHO STOOD TALL
WE THE ONES WHO STOOD THE INSULTS
WE THE ONES WHO BELIEVED
WE THE ONES WHO NEVER GAVE WAY
WE THE ONES WHO PREPARED HIS ENTRY
NOW HE HAS DELIVERED US!!!!!!!




PRAISE BE TO THE GOAT!!!!!!!!!!!


FOR HE HAS DELIVERED US!!!!!!!! TO THE PROMISED DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



:christnally::christnally::christnally:
Stop getting occasionally banned ffs.
 
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