Yeah dude, she's been behind Rai Do since their origin as bandits. Rai Do and Koku'Ou were the two biggest bandit leaders fighting over turf. Kan Ki tamed them both. At some point Ma Ron joined and tried to take over and failed, but Kan Ki let him live.
Also, bear in mind, Rai Do, Koku'Ou and Rin Gyoku were generals. Ma Ron was a 5K Cmdr.
Mou Ten referred to SSJ as RBK's RHM during the Gi'an arc. We learned during Hango, BNJ was entrusted with Bu'an in RBK's absence. SSJ was in command during Shintei.
Text boxes have only ever identified him as a deputy alongside BNJ, iirc. That's surely more authoritative.
I don't think who takes lead is necessarily indicative of seniority. Ou Ki served as deputy to Kyou at Bayou. Gen Pou took control from Kai Shi Bou, his leader, at Sanyou. CGR was the brains of the Zhao Left Wing at Shukai.
Bananji being in charge of Bu'an is political position, not military. I'm pretty sure Bananji himself stated that his responsibility was just managing the city in Riboku's absence. SSJ being called deputy doesn't mean anything, since you can be deputy and right-hand man at the same time. So the way I see it, SSJ being called righ-hand man alongside him being given more responsibilities in multiple wars suggests having a superior position within Riboku Army.
I'm not saying Heavenly Kings are inferior to Ouki's army commanders on individual level. It's just that if you take both army's composite strength then Ouki Army is superior, so Mouten's quote doesn't contradict what Tou says later.
The discussion started with Bullet saying Heavenly Kings are only a step behind the likes of 6GG and me disagreeing with the statement, because they simply don't have the potrayal to support that.
It's the opposite. In Sanyou Kyouen was dealt pretty handidly by Ousen and at the end of the battle even Renpa believed Kyouen is incapable of dealing with Ousen Army on his own.
As for any battles Kyouen had in the past against the goats, there's no proof they were on equal ground. I suspect they were a bit similar to what we've seen with SSJ vs Yotanwa where one side has some sort of advatange.
Ehhh, Kyou'En stalling Ousen is good enough for me. I wouldn't bet on Kyou'En doing a massive damage to Ousen Army by himself.
But other than that, I don't disagree with you. I don't think HK lvl generals are capable of pushing legendary GGs to high diff and beyond. That's more on Fire Dragon level guys.
Trashtanwa turned out to be the biggest clown in this series. I don't read this shit anymore, but the last thing I remember her accomplishing was that her face was used to clean the floor by fodder Quanrong soldiers. Lmfao these panels were so funny, they were just going straight Buakaw on her ass with fists and knees.
Also I remember Hara trying to impress us with her supposedly tactical skills by having her take some small ass irrelevant hill in the middle of nowhere.
She should’ve never stepped down from the mountains.
Every time since then i see panels of that clown she's jobbing to someone.
Bananji being in charge of Bu'an is political position, not military. I'm pretty sure Bananji himself stated that his responsibility was just managing the city in Riboku's absence.
Ruling Bu'an is inherently political and military in nature. It has a standing army that presumably answered to the one RBK left holding the reigns, which was BNJ at that time, even though SSJ was also stationed there.
SSJ was called RBK's RHM by Mou Ten, a Qin general. He was stated to be a deputy, and only a deputy, in a text box, which is narration. The latter is far more authoritative, especially since the former has only been uttered once, in dialogue, by a Qin general, who is no authority on the inner workings of RBK's circle.
So the way I see it, SSJ being called righ-hand man alongside him being given more responsibilities in multiple wars suggests having a superior position within Riboku Army.
There are plenty of instances in Kingdom where the highest ranking sub hasn't been the most consequential or given the most responsibility. We have context of Tou at Bayou, KSB at Sanyou, possibly Jun Ei at Juuko, and most recently Kan Jou at Hango.
SSJ and BNJ are very different generals and individuals. RBK cannot rely on SSJ to defend him on the battlefield like BNJ, nor can he rely on BNJ to navigate delicate tasks of information manipulation, striking supply lines and navigating perilous Quanrong diplomacy.
In the same arc SSJ found himself riding passenger with Rozo, BNJ stood on equal footing with Gyou'un and CGR and earned their recognition as well as Ou Sen's. He also did well against the elites of Kantan when buying time for RBK and Prince Ka.
All the context points to SSJ being a Swiss Army Knife. A versatile tool, but not up to the task of a hammer. That's key to understanding their roles.
I took exception to the apparent suggestions SSJ abilities are on par with that of the 4HK and that he stood on equal terms with YTW at Ryouyou despite clearly being relegated from command.
I'm saying, I wouldn't point to Hango as good showing of SSJ or any of the Zhao commanders on that wing.
Battle began ch 774. By ch 778, Ba Jio has already broken through their second army. By 781, Ba Jio's momentum only slowed down once SSJ was right in front of him - after destroying who knows how many armies in total to get to him.
That same chapter, half of YTW's troops left for Hango. 14 chapters later, when Ou Sen had already been routed, YTW's advisors implied they had still been pushing the offense and perhaps even pulling ahead.
I find a lot of things about SSJ impressive. His work as field general isn't one of them.
It really isn't. We don't have a wealth of details regarding Kyou En, but there's plenty to be parsed:
This is what we know about Kyou En
faced at least one Great Heaven: Ren Pa
faced four of the first generation Six Great General: Haku Ki, Ou Ki, Ou Kotsu and Kyou
fought Ren Pa multiple times
fought Haku Ki multiple times
fought Kyou multiple times
among the 6GG, Kyou made his blood boil the most due to high casualties resulting from their styles
among the 6GG, Haku Ki was the most difficult to deal with
That is plenty, my guy. We have next to 0 context on the contributions of Raku and Haku or what kind of circumstances they faced, or how or why exactly the war ended.
We do have wider, canonical context on Zhao and Wei at that time that might caution more reasonable minded people to not take the hype at face value.
256 BC - Kyou attacks Han and conquers the castles of You and Fushou, killing 40K. Kyou then invades Zhao and conquers over 20 provinces, capturing and slaying 90K. (ch 117)
254 BC - Kyou takes castle Go of Wei. The state of Han and Wei surrender in fear (ch 117)
253 BC - Kyou is slain at Bayou, Ou Ki retires, number of 6GG unknown, Fire Dragons imprisoned beside Go Kei
248 BC - Gyou'un & CGR retire from battle, Rin Shou Jo dies around this time, number of 3GH unknown
244 BC - Bayou II, Ou Ki dies 230 BC - Tou & Ri Shin invade Han
I'm not saying Heavenly Kings are inferior to Ouki's army commanders on individual level. It's just that if you take both army's composite strength then Ouki Army is superior, so Mouten's quote doesn't contradict what Tou says later.
The discussion started with Bullet saying Heavenly Kings are only a step behind the likes of 6GG and me disagreeing with the statement, because they simply don't have the potrayal to support that.
Okay @Owl Ki i think it was you who observed that it looked like Seika Un’s arrows were shooting upward. At first I thought this may have just been a weird oddity but no, Seika Un is doing this on purpose. He shoots his arrows in a way that they pass through the enemy ranks unseen, and then curve upward toward the end of the arc
That is fucking badass, WARA is goated and cannot be stopped
Okay @Owl Ki i think it was you who observed that it looked like Seika Un’s arrows were shooting upward. At first I thought this may have just been a weird oddity but no, Seika Un is doing this on purpose. He shoots his arrows in a way that they pass through the enemy ranks unseen, and then curve upward toward the end of the arc
That is fucking badass, WARA is goated and cannot be stopped
Maybe he is not playing. But the way he's shooting might be the reason why he doesn't touch vital areas.
They're basically impossible to dodge if you don't know how they work but if he has less time to adjust them, like in a archer duel where you have to shot arrows after arrows, maybe he can't aim for vital areas as much as he'd like.
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