Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

Fluffy have you ever picked up a romance book aimed at women? Doesn't have to be one of the ultra famous ones that got turned into movies. My mom has a ton of there at home and they all follow this pattern for the most part.

Then make the poll and prove me wrong. I love that.

Can you translate it?

"The sex slave of bok haram are angry" > Considered a terrorist organization
"Don't touch to our social aids" > Considered French

Again up to the individual.

No. up to scientific datas.

Lmao this isn’t Islamophobia at all

read the context and why they are mocking it this way

every criticize or caricature isn’t Islamophobia

Why am I not surprised that you don't see the problem. Yes, this is Islamophobia, it's based on islamophobic rethoric > ("muslims and strangers are taking our social aids")

You really are just a useful idiot, aren't you, Logiko? You use sophistry to mask your own disdain, and faux sympathy to uplift your status in this oppression-based social economy.

Damn.. even a logic AS BASIC and childlish as the one of ChatGPT couldn't even make you understand the problem ?

Welp, some people are lost..

I don't understand this one, why ''don't touch our benefits''? What benefits is this about?

The benefits = the social aids.

In France, the far right consider that social aids should not be allowed to minorities like muslims. They consider that migrant (that are all muslims in their heads) are making children just to have the right of social aids. In short, they don't want to pay for minorities in difficulties. And this caricature is appriopriating this rethoric.

but from what I understood when I checked up online (just did 2 seconds ago) it was to criticize the far right who didn’t want immigrants to have benefits

Riss is literally using their rethoric to mock them and BokoH.. Riss has been saying anti-muslim stuff for a while now. Time to understand.

Here is a caricature by him that was shared by Eric Zemmour a far right crypto fascist leader:

Here > Using the common rethoric that muslims are everywhere in subburbs and chases Jews. But without forgetting to add on the common racist moral panic about veil on women by showing that all women in the neughtborhood are under a burka.

Here > By using the far right rehoric that leftist have become muslims (because you see, they want to protect muslim from oppressions)

Or here: with journalist in 2017 who are noticing the fact that Riss is confusing muslim and terrorists:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/945403070489522176

 

[RayanOO]

Why am I not surprised that you don't see the problem. Yes, this is Islamophobia, it's based on islamophobic rethoric > ("muslims and strangers are taking our social aids")

This shows that you don’t understand the principle of a caricature or humor and the real meaning behind the drawing

the drawing isn’t saying at all : look at those Muslims that are taking our social aids

You missed the real point of the drawing

 

[Rej]

Idk man. I am a straight cis man.
I like pussy and that's it for me. Idk why I would need all these debates running into circles.
:whatthekong

Post automatically merged: Sep 30, 2024

Forgot to add: a.m.a.

Straight cis male stuff

 

[Logiko]

This shows that you don’t understand the principle of a caricature or humor and the real meaning behind the drawing

the drawing isn’t saying at all : look at those Muslims that are taking our social aids

You missed the real point of the drawing

I think I understand the context and what those drawings are saying a little bit more than you do, I'm sorry pal.
When you use far right rethoric to mock people under oppression, you are not making a simple caricature, you are participating is said oppression.

>> I invite you to watch this video

A good caricature makes fun of the system and the power WITH the oppressed, not at their expenses.

 

[Okamakama]

Idk man. I am a straight cis man.
I like pussy and that's it for me. Idk why I would need all these debates running into circles.
:whatthekong

Post automatically merged: Sep 30, 2024

Forgot to add: a.m.a.

Straight cis male stuff

What's it like to be super privileged and have an easy life based on the above?

Post automatically merged: Sep 30, 2024

Damn.. even a logic AS BASIC and childlish as the one of ChatGPT couldn't even make you understand the problem ? Welp, some people are lost..

When you prime an AI with false information, based on your own subjective view of reality, then of course it will churn out what you want it to say. It matters not how solid a logical argument is if it's founded on an unstable foundation.

Ergo, your argument was sophistry from the start.

For the assistance of those who believe it just "fancy words" please find the definition of sophistry: the use of clever but false arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.

You used religious figures as an allegory to strengthen your argument, but it's a false narrative. Not that I expect you to listen or even comprehend something outside of your own world view.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

it's just aimed at "re-educating" them with the "correct" behaviours.

Just because it's aimed at them, doesn't mean the audience will be receptive, however.

The same can be said about older content aimed at women, usually written by men to educate girls and women about their 'place in society'.
All the people whining now have obviously never taken a look at old literature from the past century.

 

[Okamakama]

The same can be said about older content aimed at women, usually written by men to educate girls and women about their 'place in society'.
All the people whining now have obviously never taken a look at old literature from the past century.

Is tit for tat really the way we should be approaching this? This is about now - not then. Besides, there were plenty of women who also believed in the same values back then. It was a product of it's time.

Heck, even Queen Victoria; lauded as the ruler of the Empire, said this on Feminism:

I'd say the above shows it was somewhat a product of it's time (as I said above); rather than a concerted effort to re-educate. You could try to argue the same for the present, but the fact that we have agencies who try to make things "more inclusive" in modern day society is proof of a minor attempt to re-educate.

I am -not- saying there was never an attempt to keep women down, but values change in time. Many believed in them, both men and women. Nowadays, it would be facetious to claim there aren't dogmatic "educators" who try to "re-educate" men/whites/"Cis" people/etc, which was my point. I was not saying it never happened in the past.

 

[Logiko]

When you prime an AI with false information, based on your own subjective view of reality, then of course it will churn out what you want it to say.

You do realize that I only used ChatGPT to give me the idea of the allegory, right ? The allegory itself holds up on its own mate, it's basic enough for you to understand.

Don't you "sophistry" at random lol

If you can't understand that level of allegory, really, you are lost mate.

but the fact that we have agencies who try to make things "more inclusive" in modern day society is proof of a minor attempt to re-educate.

If there was not people who try to attack other people for who they are, there would be no need to educate the population on representation mate.

 

[Okamakama]

You do realize that I only used ChatGPT to give me the idea of the allegory, right ? The allegory itself holds up on its own mate, it's basic enough for you to understand.

Don't you "sophistry" at random lol

If you can't understand that level of allegory, really, you are lost mate.



If there was not people who try to attack other people for who they are, there would be no need to educate the population on representation mate.

No matter how many times you use the word "mate" nobody will find you relatable.

You're screaming into the void. Your allegory does not hold up. The narrative is flawed; and you are most certainly trying to deceive others into believing your point of view.

Your allegory is based on oppression politics, on a hierarchy of struggle, which I categorically disagree with. Suffering is not a competition. I too have suffered homelessness, physical and psychological abuse, and medical malpractice, but I won't say abusing me is worse than abusing those who haven't experienced it. Yet you say somehow that laughing at, or deriding Christians, is right but doing the same to Jews and Muslims is wrong because of so-called 'oppression'.

Your views are malice disguised as sympathy. Envy masquerading as righteous indignation. You're a cretin, and the sad thing is, you cannot even see it.

 

[Rej]

What's it like to be super privileged and have an easy life based on the above?

Post automatically merged: Sep 30, 2024

When you prime an AI with false information, based on your own subjective view of reality, then of course it will churn out what you want it to say. It matters not how solid a logical argument is if it's founded on an unstable foundation.

Ergo, your argument was sophistry from the start.

For the assistance of those who believe it just "fancy words" please find the definition of sophistry: the use of clever but false arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.

You used religious figures as an allegory to strengthen your argument, but it's a false narrative. Not that I expect you to listen or even comprehend something outside of your own world view.

Idk man. I feel like a normal human being, I dont feel any privileg. I think women (pussy owners) have more privilegs.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

Ok. Since none of you want to understand I'll go to the basics. I created an allegory with the help my friend chatGPT for this one, because I was too dumb to simplify correctly an allegory about oppression on my own:

"
The Allegory of Burdens

Imagine three people: Muhammad, Noah, and Isaiah.

• Muhammad is carrying a very heavy bag full of large rocks.
• Isaiah is carrying a slightly lighter bag, but it's still bulky and hard to carry.
• Noah, on the other hand, has only a small, nearly empty bag, which is easy to carry.

All three have to walk down a difficult path. Muhammad walks slowly, sometimes stumbling under the enormous weight of the bag. Isaiah moves a bit faster, but still struggles. Noah, with his light bag, walks with little difficulty.

Now, imagine that someone starts mocking Muhammad for walking slowly or tripping. That’s unfair, because Muhammad is carrying a huge burden, and it’s this weight that slows him down. Similarly, mocking Isaiah, who is also carrying a burden, is cruel, because their bag makes it hard for them to walk as fast as Noah.

On the other hand, if someone mocks Noah for stumbling, it’s less harmful because Noah doesn’t have much to carry and can easily get back up without any major struggle.

Conclusion: Mocking Muhammad or Isaiah, who carry heavy burdens, only adds to their struggles, since they’re already facing obstacles that Noah doesn’t have. Mocking Noah, who carries almost nothing, is much less hurtful because he doesn’t have the same burdens holding him back.
"

Ok. So now I hope you understand where I'm getting at through this simple logic exercice. I made it more precise by giving each chararacters a specific prophet name corresponding to a religion and thus, believers:

Muhammad > Muslims
Isaiah > Jews
Noah > Christians

You see, in the west Muslims are oppressed on a systemic scale. This is something that is documented by researchers. Jews on the other hand are victims of large scale antisemitic rethoric from a lot of places. Jew's oppression is a lot less impactfull that the oppression that are facing muslims, but it still present, especially in France where Jew are the target of the far right.

On the other hand, Christianity is hegemonic in the majority of western cultures and Christian are not subject to large scale oppressions or systemic ones.

So.. what happens when you make fun of every believers in the same way ? Well.. You will accentuate the burden of oppression that already exist on Muslims and Jews, thus making them the target of more remarks, more systemic reforms, more attacks etc.. while Christians on the other hand, will simply have to face a bad joke.

This is not a question of hating Christians, Christian have nothing to do with it. It's a question of avoiding putting more pressure on the shoulder of other believers when it can only worsen their situation.

This is why you can't treat people under oppression the same way as you treat people who are not.

I told you it's pointless, I don't see any meaning in debating with mad people. Go talk with your good friend ChatGPT.

 

[Okamakama]

Idk man. I feel like a normal human being, I dont feel any privileg. I think women (pussy owners) have more privilegs.

Bro, you're living on the backs of all the minorities, women, trans, disabled, and you can't even see it! Disgusting. (Please don't take this seriously.)

 

[AL sama]

don't be rude guys seriously

 

[Okamakama]

don't be rude guys seriously

What constitutes rude in the modern day, @AL sama?

Should I go consult the local diversity officer in my area?

I need to know, lest I upset people.

 

[Logiko]

No matter how many times you use the word "mate" nobody will find you relatable.

Ok Mate

You're screaming into the void. Your allegory does not hold up. The narrative is flawed; and you are most certainly trying to deceive others into believing your point of view.

Nop

Your allegory is based on oppression politics, on a hierarchy of struggle, which I categorically disagree with.

Oh, so you are denying sociology now I guess ?

Suffering is not a competition.

You are the only one here who is making it into one.

I too have suffered homelessness, abuse and medical malpractice, but I won't say abusing me is thus worse than abusing those who haven't experienced it. Yet you say somehow that laughing at, or deriding, Christians is right but doing the same to Jews and Muslims is wrong because of so-called 'oppression'.

Are you using the oppression you suffered to say that others should suffer too ?

Your views are malice disguised as sympathy. Envy masquerading as righteous indignation. You're a cretin, and the sad thing is, you cannot even see it.

You are speaking to a mirror mate.

I told you it's pointless, I don't see any meaning in debating with mad people. Go talk with your good friend ChatGPT.

This allegory was enough for me to reason and understand the problem with mocking muslims and Islam when I was in my islamophobic phase.. At least I tried..

 

[AL sama]

What constitutes rude in the modern day, @AL sama?

Should I go consult the local diversity officer in my area?

I need to know, lest I upset people.

you know how we roll around here lol

 

[Okamakama]

Ok Mate



Nop



Oh, so you are denying sociology now I guess ?



You are the only one here who is making it into one.





Are you using the oppression you suffered to say that others should suffer too ?



You are speaking to a mirror mate.




This allegory was enough for me to reason and understand the problem with mocking muslims and Islam when I was in my islamophobic phase.. At least I tried..

The fact that you can post a bunch of lies about your intent without any sense of shame is why you are such an insidious actor, Logiko. Everybody can see through you.

Post automatically merged: Sep 30, 2024

you know how we roll around here lol

Ban the overt - enable the subversive. I know, my dude.

 

[Logiko]

It's funny how triggered some people are by the mear idea that other persons might be suffering more than they are...

The fact that you can post a bunch of lies without any sense of shame is why you are such an insidious actor, Logiko.

What lies ?

 

[Okamakama]

It's funny how triggered are by the mear idea that other peoples might be suffering more than they are...



What lies ?

You fully know that you are making things about oppression politics. Subtext -- a favoured term of yours during the C4N era -- should be setting off alarms in your mind right now. Lie as you will, everybody can see through it.

Nobody is triggered by people suffering more than they are. To speak for myself, I am tired of people believing others deserve an easier ride just because they were born with a tougher hand. I never expected that for myself. Those who advocate for that are inadvertently looking down on the disadvantaged, for they wish to treat them with children's gloves, so to speak.

You're very good at ascribing intent to your opposition, Logiko, but not very good at understanding people. You're the holier than thou saviour who wishes to help all the disadvantaged, when you're the one who needs saving from yourself it seems. If my greatest advocate was you, I'd feel even more despair.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

don't be rude guys seriously

He says he is a mad man himself so it's not my fault, I also told him not to engage me in conversation.
Besides he is advocating for us christians to be insulted while other faiths can't be touched, he should just move to Israel or Saudi Arabia.