Controversial General Political Discussion
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If only I had 10€ each time someone was telling me "I don't agree" in front of scientific evidences....
Through complex cognitive processes : Memory/recognition pattern/Language recognition and capacity etc.
> Each of those process are determined by neurobiological mechanisms, neural network and cognitive development.
>> Each of those mechanism are determined by genetic predisposition and the experience of our material condition of existence in and outside of the brain.
>>> Which is determined by our evolution
>>>> Which is determined by the material condition of existence of the livings (Earth and it's components / The sun / The moon)
>>>>> Which is the result of the creation of the solar system
>>>>>> Which was formed after the creation of the Sun from a Nebulae
>>>>>>> Which is the result a chain of reaction created by the explosion of a supernovae
>>>>>>>> Which was the result of a chain of event following the creations of stars and galaxies
>>>>>>>>> Which were formed with by the matter in the universe under the influence of gravity
>>>>>>>>>> Which emerged following the big bang
>>>>>>>>>>> Which was determined by a few fundamental physical constant
>>>>>>>>>>>> Which are the results of a chain of causality created by the existence of the universe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is a result of ?
By thinking that you have free will, you negate all of that, bypassing the chain of causality in the universe and attributing yourself the power of a god.
Through complex cognitive processes : Memory/recognition pattern/Language recognition and capacity etc.
> Each of those process are determined by neurobiological mechanisms, neural network and cognitive development.
>> Each of those mechanism are determined by genetic predisposition and the experience of our material condition of existence in and outside of the brain.
>>> Which is determined by our evolution
>>>> Which is determined by the material condition of existence of the livings (Earth and it's components / The sun / The moon)
>>>>> Which is the result of the creation of the solar system
>>>>>> Which was formed after the creation of the Sun from a Nebulae
>>>>>>> Which is the result a chain of reaction created by the explosion of a supernovae
>>>>>>>> Which was the result of a chain of event following the creations of stars and galaxies
>>>>>>>>> Which were formed with by the matter in the universe under the influence of gravity
>>>>>>>>>> Which emerged following the big bang
>>>>>>>>>>> Which was determined by a few fundamental physical constant
>>>>>>>>>>>> Which are the results of a chain of causality created by the existence of the universe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is a result of ?
By thinking that you have free will, you negate all of that, bypassing the chain of causality in the universe and attributing yourself the power of a god.
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I do agree with it, I can see these animals are using tools, counting. I disagree with your interpretation that this entails abstraction on their part and not mere bodily mechanisms & memory
How can a material (cognitive, aka in the brain) cause, generate an immaterial (abstraction) effect?
Your saying it's cognitive or due to the cerebrum, right? But the cerebrum or cognitive organ is purely matter, so how could it cause something devoid of matter like abstraction?
The nature of the will is to make a choice, with an internalized reason, or without one. You have not demonstrated it needs to be the former.
You're right, he's now farting around saying it's the cerebrum/brain which causes abstraction
Even though this still contradicts the fact that a cause cannot give to an effect which is not contained within the cause, so a material "brain" (or cerebrum, or electrical signal) cannot create an immaterial abstraction
How can a material (cognitive, aka in the brain) cause, generate an immaterial (abstraction) effect?
Your saying it's cognitive or due to the cerebrum, right? But the cerebrum or cognitive organ is purely matter, so how could it cause something devoid of matter like abstraction?
The nature of the will is to make a choice, with an internalized reason, or without one. You have not demonstrated it needs to be the former.
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You're right, he's now farting around saying it's the cerebrum/brain which causes abstraction
Even though this still contradicts the fact that a cause cannot give to an effect which is not contained within the cause, so a material "brain" (or cerebrum, or electrical signal) cannot create an immaterial abstraction
It's not my interpretation. But the ones of scientists.
I will end this discussion here. It's useless to continue when evidences are denied.
It does not. It's only an illusion.
Just like colors.
You think you see colors because your brain is wired in a way that makes you think that colors exists. But in reality they don't, colors are only a result of the interpretation of the wavelenghts of light - that are absorbed, emitted or reflected by object around us - by our brain through our eyes.
But it's just an illusion. There are no such things as colors in reality.
Just like colors, abstractions are perceptions and constructions.
I did. You didn't accept it. The discussion is useless.
I will end this discussion here. It's useless to continue when evidences are denied.
It does not. It's only an illusion.
Just like colors.
You think you see colors because your brain is wired in a way that makes you think that colors exists. But in reality they don't, colors are only a result of the interpretation of the wavelenghts of light - that are absorbed, emitted or reflected by object around us - by our brain through our eyes.
But it's just an illusion. There are no such things as colors in reality.
Just like colors, abstractions are perceptions and constructions.
I did. You didn't accept it. The discussion is useless.
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It's both depending on the context. The perception is real just as what we apply to it, depending if we are talking about the physical and biological phenomenon or the social construct. Both are immaterial. And yet, are derived from material conditions and phenomenon.
Abstractions or even our vision of will, just like colors, are the result of both physical phenomenon and social constructs.
Which is an interesting subject to explore btw
Abstractions or even our vision of will, just like colors, are the result of both physical phenomenon and social constructs.
Which is an interesting subject to explore btw
Yes, colors are real in the sence that they are real perceptions and illusions created by our brain to interprate the differences of wavelenght that are coming into our photoreceptors.
But.
They are also (or can also be) social constructs in the sence that the differenciations and distinctions between colors are socially constructed as language is also a social construct and a physical particularity that has evolved over time.
You should see this, it will be clearer:
But.
They are also (or can also be) social constructs in the sence that the differenciations and distinctions between colors are socially constructed as language is also a social construct and a physical particularity that has evolved over time.
You should see this, it will be clearer:
Yes. Social construct are also part of what we call the "material conditions of our existence". Materiality in the literal sence is not necessarily the determined factor.
For ex: The way you see death, the way you talk about space or the way you conceptualize time, will sometimes differ from societies to societies and this will influence slightly the way we think about those concepts.
I placed a specific section about that in the Leftist Library:
- [VIDEO] - Language shapes the way we think - Lera Boroditsky on Ted Talk - IMPORTANT
- [VIDEO] - Language shapes the way we think - A case study of people speaking a different language
- [MOVIE] - Language shapes the way we think - A movie about the phenomenon - Arrival
Note that it is not a radical influence as studies tends to ponders the influence of languages for the radical modification of perception, but the way we talk culturally about things and concept may have a slight influence on the way we perceive them.
In any case: The way we conceptualize out sence of self, as individuals with their own will, is only a social construct resulting of our material conditions of existence. It doesn't mean that it is the way we are and it also means that we can change this perception.
Once you guyz will be able to take a step back on free will, you will be able to see the far future of society as I picture it: a form of paradise.
For ex: The way you see death, the way you talk about space or the way you conceptualize time, will sometimes differ from societies to societies and this will influence slightly the way we think about those concepts.
I placed a specific section about that in the Leftist Library:
- [VIDEO] - Language shapes the way we think - Lera Boroditsky on Ted Talk - IMPORTANT
- [VIDEO] - Language shapes the way we think - A case study of people speaking a different language
- [MOVIE] - Language shapes the way we think - A movie about the phenomenon - Arrival
Note that it is not a radical influence as studies tends to ponders the influence of languages for the radical modification of perception, but the way we talk culturally about things and concept may have a slight influence on the way we perceive them.
In any case: The way we conceptualize out sence of self, as individuals with their own will, is only a social construct resulting of our material conditions of existence. It doesn't mean that it is the way we are and it also means that we can change this perception.
Once you guyz will be able to take a step back on free will, you will be able to see the far future of society as I picture it: a form of paradise.
The studies say they can use tools, count, solve problems, I agree that they can do all that lol. What's the issue?
Oh right, you assume they meant they can do these things in a way that involves the animal apprehending the universal or immaterial aspects of the matter presented, which is abstraction in the literal sense
This is a logical contradiction. Abstraction does not have physical existence, perception does as it's via the senses
How can material (sensory illusion) generate something immaterial (abstraction)?
ab·stract
adjective
/ˈabˌstrak(t)/
perception
noun
Oh right, you assume they meant they can do these things in a way that involves the animal apprehending the universal or immaterial aspects of the matter presented, which is abstraction in the literal sense
This is a logical contradiction. Abstraction does not have physical existence, perception does as it's via the senses
How can material (sensory illusion) generate something immaterial (abstraction)?
ab·stract
adjective
/ˈabˌstrak(t)/
- 1.
existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence
perception
noun
- the ability to see, hear, or become aware of something through the senses.
I will stop talking with you now 
Abstract effect entails abstract cause
Material object like brain tissue cannot create abstract thought
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The question of the human will is an abstract or philosophical one, because the will is an abstract faculty.
How does bringing up material processes (the sun, the Big Bang, evolution) solve this abstract dilemma?
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