Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

The studies say they can use tools, count, solve problems, I agree that they can do all that lol. What's the issue?

Oh right, you assume they meant they can do these things in a way that involves the animal apprehending the universal or immaterial aspects of the matter presented, which is abstraction in the literal sense





This is a logical contradiction. Abstraction does not have physical existence, perception does as it's via the senses

How can material (sensory illusion) generate something immaterial (abstraction)?

ab·stract

adjective
/ˈabˌstrak(t)/

1. 1.
   existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence

perception
noun

1. the ability to see, hear, or become aware of something through the senses.

I will stop talking with you now

 

[RyoQ]

I will stop talking with you now

Fucking owned

Abstract effect entails abstract cause

Material object like brain tissue cannot create abstract thought
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I did. You didn't accept it. The discussion is useless

The question of the human will is an abstract or philosophical one, because the will is an abstract faculty.

How does bringing up material processes (the sun, the Big Bang, evolution) solve this abstract dilemma?

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

Yes. Social construct are also part of what we call the "material conditions of our existence". Materiality in the literal sence is not necessarily the determined factor.

For ex: The way you see death, the way you talk about space or the way you conceptualize time, will sometimes differ from societies to societies and this will influence slightly the way we think about those concepts.

I placed a specific section about that in the Leftist Library:

- [VIDEO] - Language shapes the way we think - Lera Boroditsky on Ted Talk - IMPORTANT
- [VIDEO] - Language shapes the way we think - A case study of people speaking a different language
- [MOVIE] - Language shapes the way we think - A movie about the phenomenon - Arrival

Note that it is not a radical influence as studies tends to ponders the influence of languages for the radical modification of perception, but the way we talk culturally about things and concept may have a slight influence on the way we perceive them.

In any case: The way we conceptualize out sence of self, as individuals with their own will, is only a social construct resulting of our material conditions of existence. It doesn't mean that it is the way we are and it also means that we can change this perception.

Once you guyz will be able to take a step back on free will, you will be able to see the far future of society as I picture it: a form of paradise.

0 arguments.

 

[RyoQ]

0 arguments.

He's cooked

He (like most people perhaps) hasn't considered the logical contradictions of saying material things (brain tissue, color perception) can generate immaterial things (such as abstract thought, which always involve abstract objects like concepts or numbers which cannot be contained in any material object such as a brain)

Redditor needs to spend more time studying metaphysics and philosophy, and less time on r/Science

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

0 arguments.

You are talking to a retard

 

[RyoQ]

A language is either particles vibrating or a certain substance or pixels arranged in a certain way to form a writing, so it's also very much material.

Languages can 100% be accounted for by matter, lmao. That shit is all memory, memory is a material faculty that even plants have
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Yes. Social construct are also part of what we call the "material conditions of our existence". Materiality in the literal sence is not necessarily the determined factor.

For ex: The way you see death, the way you talk about space or the way you conceptualize time, will sometimes differ from societies to societies and this will influence slightly the way we think about those concepts.

I placed a specific section about that in the Leftist Library:

- [VIDEO] - Language shapes the way we think - Lera Boroditsky on Ted Talk - IMPORTANT
- [VIDEO] - Language shapes the way we think - A case study of people speaking a different language
- [MOVIE] - Language shapes the way we think - A movie about the phenomenon - Arrival

Note that it is not a radical influence as studies tends to ponders the influence of languages for the radical modification of perception, but the way we talk culturally about things and concept may have a slight influence on the way we perceive them.

In any case: The way we conceptualize out sence of self, as individuals with their own will, is only a social construct resulting of our material conditions of existence. It doesn't mean that it is the way we are and it also means that we can change this perception.

Once you guyz will be able to take a step back on free will, you will be able to see the far future of society as I picture it: a form of paradise.

Reddit slop

Not sure why this Redditor things spamming le science articles and movie trailers helps his argument lmao

Language can be a fully material process, even plants have a "language" that they use to communicate with each other

 

[Logiko]

Damn.. It's in situation like those that I can clearly see how foolish it was for me to even try to convince "some" people..

I will admit that I had no knowledge, before my arrival here, of a bias that could constitute a defense against knowledge. But this is a reality. This replace in perspective more than a decade of activism.

This really is an enlightening discovery.

 

[NAMELESS]

I would have to see what the study considered "reasoning" when referring to the chimpanzee.

All the other things listed (problem-solving, using tools, counting) require mere memory + behavior which I grant that animals do have. Plants also have memory and engage in behaviors.



Computers can "learn" if this is your point. I agree that animals can also learn. But both in a way that utilize material or sensory mechanisms


An immaterial effect cannot come from a material cause. Computers are material.



How can electrical signals (material) generate abstraction (immaterial)

Question: If the brain is unrelated to abstraction, why is it iq, brain health, proper brain chemistry all affect clear thinking? Being low iq, having brain damage, drown syndrome, drugs and so on all affect your capacity for cognition. Gotta remember philosophy ain't science.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

He's cooked

He (like most people perhaps) hasn't considered the logical contradictions of saying material things (brain tissue, color perception) can generate immaterial things (such as abstract thought, which always involve abstract objects like concepts or numbers which cannot be contained in any material object such as a brain)

Redditor needs to spend more time studying metaphysics and philosophy, and less time on r/Science

But I think in metaphysics most things are made of matter and form, which is an immaterial principle. That includes the brain.

You are talking to a retard

 

[RyoQ]

But I think in metaphysics most things are made of matter and form, which is an immaterial principle. That includes the brain.

Yes, all things are matter and form. So in a sense, all material things are (in part) immaterial

However, some things are pure form. The mind (which contains the intellect and will) is an example of a pure form.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

Yes, all things are matter and form. So in a sense, all material things are (in part) immaterial

However, some things are pure form. The mind (which contains the intellect and will) is an example of a pure form.

I think not fully, as a human's true essence still entails the flesh.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

But I think in metaphysics most things are made of matter and form, which is an immaterial principle. That includes the brain.

It really feels like a Ciao Darwin episode.
But no mother nature for us

 

[NAMELESS]

I think not fully, as a human's true essence still entails the flesh.

How can one even think with a fucked up brain?
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Yes, colors are real in the sence that they are real perceptions and illusions created by our brain to interprate the differences of wavelenght that are coming into our photoreceptors.

But.

They are also (or can also be) social constructs in the sence that the differenciations and distinctions between colors are socially constructed as language is also a social construct and a physical particularity that has evolved over time.

You should see this, it will be clearer:

*SENSE.

 

[AL sama]

I wouldn't be shocked if some of you turn out to be flat-earthers

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

I wouldn't be shocked if some of you turn out to be flat-earthers

Better a flat earther than french or a furry Carrot fan

 

[Logiko]

How can one even think with a fucked up brain?
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*SENSE.

I sence that you are trying to tell me something...

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Y’all ever notice how a lot of terrorists end up being ex-military people?

like that Din Jabbar guy

A bunch of those people who stormed the capital on Jan 6th

Now apparently this https://apnews.com/article/trump-hotel-explosion-tesla-cybertruck-5c5a8fd13a50e2bcde46370ae926d427

I think more people ought to look into the soldier to terrorist pipeline

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

How can one even think with a fucked up brain?
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*SENSE.

The matter can't fully realize the form and is subject to accidents.

It really feels like a Ciao Darwin episode.
But no mother nature for us

You never know who is a woman here.

 

[Logiko]

I feel like some of you guyz know le christ cosmique..

 

[Zenos7]

do agree with it, I can see these animals are using tools, counting. I disagree with your interpretation that this entails abstraction on their part and not mere bodily mechanisms & memory

What about realizing there is a hierarchy in your group and then perform a coup to rise in said hierarchy?

Thats pretty amazing, and meerkats arent even among the smartest animals lmao.