Controversial General Political Discussion

[Reborn]

Iran's response so far has been retailatiory in nature.

Based on what US and Israel targets, Iran responds in that exact way.

Yesterday, Israel targetted nuclear facility in Iran and it was followed by Iran targeting City of Dimon in Israel.


Now, Trump has threatened that Iran has 48 hours to open Hormuz otherwise he will target power plants.

It's clear what's gonna happen - If Iran's power plants get targetted then power plants of Gulf would be under attack as well.

And, we will have Gulf getting pissed and warning Iran not to attack but at the same time they will continue to let US use military bases just like how Saudi opened another base for US to use a day ago.

 

[Etzel Andergast]

The odds still matter as they’re the reason perception exists at all.

Reducing everything to perception is very narrow interpretation of existence. You do you but don't club me into it.

if an interpretation is more richer than the other is not something i'm interested.

lets talk about the thesis in itself: conciousness emerges from a physical system

some problems:
- circularity
- ontological leap
- physicalism needs an "absolute incognizable" to explain the existence outside counciousness
- the concept of the physical has no intrinsic content (and even its definition explain nothing lol)
- and of course: the hard problem

 

[Reborn]

if an interpretation is more richer than the other is not something i'm interested.

lets talk about the thesis in itself: conciousness emerges from a physical system

some problems:
- circularity
- ontological leap
- physicalism needs an "absolute incognizable" to explain the existence outside counciousness
- the concept of the physical has no intrinsic content (and even its definition explain nothing lol)
- and of course: the hard problem

Not knowing something fully doesn't automatically validate alternatives.

I believe in testable claims.

Yes there's an explanation gap but unless you come out with verifiable claims you are delving into metaphysics and not explanation of reality.


And, when I said, we are product of probabilistic odds then it was because our world is quantum in nature with universe being fine tuned. These aren't just claims. They had been tested. A slight variation and the universe we are in wouldn't even exist. There's a reason why Multiverse theories came up.

Heck, if that asteroid 66 million years ago would have missed earth then humans wouldn't even have existed right now.

We are the product of probabilistic oddity

 

[Etzel Andergast]

Not knowing something fully doesn't automatically validate alternatives.

I believe in testable claims.

Yes there's an explanation gap but unless you come out with verifiable claims you are delving into metaphysics and not explanation of reality.


And, when I said, we are product of probabilistic odds then it was because our world is quantum in nature with universe being fine tuned. These aren't just claims. They had been tested. A slight variation and the universe we are in wouldn't even exist. There's a reason why Multiverse theories came up.

Heck, if that asteroid 66 million years ago would have missed earth then humans wouldn't even have existed right now.

We are the product of probabilistic oddity

1) my claim is the most verifiable claim ever: we only have access to conciousness, nothing more. this is the only immediate data we have, nothing more.
2) you are just describing how the universe works, you are not explaining what is the universe, or reality or whatever. These are two very different things. I dont disagree with nothing that science says (and science says how physical systems work, their behavior, in other words, explain the structure of the real, but doesnt say what is the real)

 

[Logiko]

Not knowing something fully doesn't automatically validate alternatives.

I believe in testable claims.

Yes there's an explanation gap but unless you come out with verifiable claims you are delving into metaphysics and not explanation of reality.


And, when I said, we are product of probabilistic odds then it was because our world is quantum in nature with universe being fine tuned. These aren't just claims. They had been tested. A slight variation and the universe we are in wouldn't even exist. There's a reason why Multiverse theories came up.

Heck, if that asteroid 66 million years ago would have missed earth then humans wouldn't even have existed right now.

We are the product of probabilistic oddity

A happy accident.

But it's important to understand that no matter our place in the universe, we living beings are the ones making sense out of it and therefore, we are also the ones who decide our importance.

For some, we are nothing, for others, we are everything. I like to think we are both at the same time.

 

[Etzel Andergast]

when you notice that the claim there is something besides consciousness is just an inference (not an intuition) and an ontological leap

 

[Reborn]

1) my claim is the most verifiable claim ever: we only have access to conciousness, nothing more. this is the only immediate data we have, nothing more.
2) you are just describing how the universe works, you are not explaining what is the universe, or reality or whatever. These are two very different things. I dont disagree with nothing that science says (and science says how physical systems work, their behavior, in other words, explain the structure of the real, but doesnt say what is the real)

You’re right that science explains how and not ‘what reality is’ and it's because we are limited by technology and what we can test but your view doesn’t explain what reality is either.

You are simply replacing the unknown with ‘consciousness’ and stops.

It's convenient. It's no different than people who leaves things to Gods or simulation and leave it there.

The real question is how does your view account for the consistency, predictability, and common reality of the universe we as humans, all other species and every other planetary system more or less share?

How do you explain why math is able to predict universe so accurately?

 

[Blax Blah]

i've always wondered about that

all the abrahamic religion have a second coming (or a first coming in judaism)

but how is all that gonna work with the modern age of technology?

nukes, drones and fighter jets...

are all of that just gonna stop working because 'miracles', or is the messianic figure just gonna be a militaristic leader who uses said technology to bring about peace?

what are you different abrahamic religion followers' opinion on this?

Well the idea is Jesus rules as king over the world from Jerusalem so he imposes peace, some people call it a dictatorship but personally I think that doesn't make sense, God isn't a dictator for ruling over what he made, here is a video about it if you're interested

Isaiah 2:2-4

2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.



Zechariah 14:16 - And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

[Blax Blah]

It's a worldwide monarchy where God rules with his law and old testament saved people and christians are ressurected and rule with him

 

[Etzel Andergast]

You’re right that science explains how and not ‘what reality is’ and it's because we are limited by technology and what we can test but your view doesn’t explain what reality is either.

You are simply replacing the unknown with ‘consciousness’ and stops.

It's convenient. It's no different than people who leaves things to Gods or simulation and leave it there.

The real question is how does your view account for the consistency, predictability, and common reality of the universe we as humans, all other species and every other planetary system more or less share?

How do you explain why math is able to predict universe so accurately?

1. no, its not a technology problem, its a methedological problem, science simply doesnt deal with the question of what is reality by its own principles. it just methodology.
2. no, what i'm doing is taking the most fundamental and important intuition we have: "I only have access to conciousness" and saying, through legitimate inferences that the "real" (or what you called "unknown") is conciousness
3. because i'm not saying everything is a product of my conciousness and i'm not saying that my volition or will determines how the universe works or what will happen
4. the math thing is another topic, but I defend realism. That means some "mathematical objects" exist

 

[Blax Blah]

They would love Jesus….until he says “yea black people, women, Hispanics and gay people are included in my teachings and love” then it wouldn’t count

It doesn't matter because he's the boss and rules

 

[Reborn]

1. no, its not a technology problem, its a methedological problem, science simply doesnt deal with the question of what is reality by its own principles. it just methodology.
2. no, what i'm doing is taking the most fundamental and important intuition we have: "I only have access to conciousness" and saying, through legitimate inferences that the "real" (or what you called "unknown") is conciousness
3. because i'm not saying everything is a product of my conciousness and i'm not saying that my volition or will determines how the universe works or what will happen
4. the math thing is another topic, but I defend realism. That means some "mathematical objects" exist

It's beyond my paycheck to respond to that. If you need answers then join me on my stream as a patron

 

[Reborn]

A happy accident.

But it's important to understand that no matter our place in the universe, we living beings are the ones making sense out of it and therefore, we are also the ones who decide our importance.

For some, we are nothing, for others, we are everything. I like to think we are both at the same time.

That's fair.

Universally insignificant and accidental origin but meaningful in experiences

 

[Logiko]

We think therefore we are
Never removed from the whole
Always a part of the totality

Consciousness is a product of the universe, a wave on the ocean of reality. Yet our experience, the qualia, seems to be more, or is it? No matter the illusion, we experience therefore we are and the feeling of the experience is more than just the illusion of the experience created by the material process of the whole.

So if the material totality of the universe can't fully explain the nature of experience.. does the explanation of the experience require the expansion of our conception of the material and therefore to go beyond our conception of the universe?

 

[Midnight Delight]

They would love Jesus….until he says “yea black people, women, Hispanics and gay people are included in my teachings and love” then it wouldn’t count

????

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

????

What's confusing?

 

[Midnight Delight]

What's confusing?

Jesus never at any point gave support to anything LGTB
Even Muhammad tolerated Arabian crossdressers , Jesus never said anything about it

 

[Reborn]

It's seems like you people believe in God's existence alot.

Well so my question is do you believe in ghosts as well? If not, then why you believe in God but not in Ghosts?

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

It's seems like you people believe in God's existence alot.

Well so my question is do you believe in ghosts as well? If not, then why you believe in God but not in Ghosts?

Weirdly enough I had a moment where I swear I saw a ghost near my bathroom but I wouldn't use it as concrete proof they exist. Maybe I'm just going crazy lol
Though I personally am agnostic

 

[Reborn]

Weirdly enough I had a moment where I swear I saw a ghost near my bathroom but I wouldn't use it as concrete proof they exist. Maybe I'm just going crazy lol
Though I personally am agnostic

You probably saw your own reflection in the mirror in the bathroom

Well, jokes apart, are you agnostic about God or Ghosts or both?