Controversial General Political Discussion

[AL sama]

If you can confidently state you wouldn't entertain any of my views, I can only assume you are a diametric opposite of I.

I said many not any and I say this to Logiko too

 

[Logiko]

Because you act just like them - leeching from the state rather than trying to be self-sufficient.

ALL WHILE I was getting insulted, my personnal life constantly laugh at, called a parasite, called a dictator, called someone who can't be nice to people, called someone who is stupid etc. etc.

But okay.... I was "inappropriate"

We owe them nothing. Next.

That's your opinion. Not mine.

I'd rather they starve as a warning to everyone else who wishes to leech from us

I think you should now understand why I considerer you on the far right. You may not like it, but, look at what you are saying....

The British Empire ended slavery, and slavery existed in the middle-east before we arrived there.

https://academic.oup.com/book/47737

No, you're entirely self-serving. Humans deserve nothing.

I'm sorry that you feel that way.

You argue from emotion.

Ethics rather. I consider that the needs of the whole includes the satisfaction of the needs of the one.

I'm french. So one of my mantra is "All for one, one for all" (in the communist sense of the sentence). Not "All for themselve"

So you accept you support systems that undermine national unity and solidarity

I believe that national unity is against the very concept of solidarity. After all, we can't really be solidary with other people if we exclude groups of people from such solidarity. I think you comment about prefering people to starve rather than access ressource is telling enough.

You're advocating for the destruction of an identity.

The opposite actually. I'm trying to build a star trek world, not the borg.

Be honest. You want to reap the benefits of western culture whilst insulting it at the same time.

I don't want to quit because I love my culture. You admitted paragraphs back that you're happy to destroy your nation and bring about a new order. We are not the same.

I want to survive. And currently, I believe that reactionnary ideologies threatens my survival and the survival of thousands.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but it is what I believe.

Logiko you have proven in your continued responses that you do not care about your culture

I believe that multiple culture can coexist without having to delimite them by borders or national rules. In fact, this is precisely how culture opperate on a macro scale. One example of that is language.

Language evolves, merge, creates children, without losing its magnificent nature. Some language are more influencal than others but all are rules by the same laws of space and time.

I'd respect you if you could at least see why people like me have their views

This is why I'm asking you questions, I want to understand how you got that political vision. I'm not saying that I will agree or that I will never contradict you, but I'm now genuingly curious.

You're narrow-minded and overly-zealous.

Until a few days ago, this was quite true. My mindset has evolved.

Ultimately, I think you preach kindness but it's a self-serving endeavour to maintain your own lifestyle

Well yeah.. I'm still tring to survive after all.

I will not be entertaining your responses further unless you bring something of intellectual value to the table. I've wasted enough time on you.

Have a good night

I do feel non-citizens should not have the same rights as citizens however.

That's called an appartheid.

 

[Zenos7]

Can you explain this point, please?

well i have dual citizenship because revoking my original citizenship would cost money. and i dont care enough to go that far.

 

[Logiko]

science says every single individual thats anti-immigration is a racist?

interesting

No. Science or rather researchers and scholar link ultra nationalism, anti-immigration politics and the reject of racialized outgroups with white supremacy. In fact this has been witnessed quite recently with the migration of thousands of Ukrainian (both legal and illegal):

When the migration from africa (for similar reasons) is considered a "great replacement", the migration of UKrainian was considered as a chance. This is directly linked to whiteness and whitesupremacy where some people are not considered worthy because of their racialization (most ukranians coming in France were considered white people "like us", by the political spectrum)

 

[Zenos7]

Maybe he can beg somewhere else to take him, maybe his beloved migrant's countries

to be extra fair to @Logiko here, being in support of migrants/refugees and treating them well doesnt mean he likes the countries where the migrants are coming from

 

[NAMELESS]

well i have dual citizenship because revoking my original citizenship would cost money. and i dont care enough to go that far.

The Portuguese rip you off even in your way out lol

 

[Logiko]

to be extra fair to @Logiko here, being in support of migrants/refugees and treating them well doesnt mean he likes the countries where the migrants are coming from

Indeed

 

[Zenos7]

I believe that multiple culture can coexist without having to delimite them by borders or national rules. In fact, this is precisely how culture opperate on a macro scale. One example of that is language.

after experiencing the multicultural experiment first hand all throughout my life, i definitely consider it a failed experiment.

 

[NAMELESS]

Indeed

So you don't like migrants or their nations?

 

[Logiko]

ter experiencing the multicultural experiment first hand all throughout my life, i definitely consider it a failed experiment.

I also experienced it and I would say the opposite

So you don't like migrants?

I nether like nor dislike migrants. I think we should accept them no matter of who they are. Some people are cool, some are asshole, like any groups of population.

But I do not like the conditions that they had to live with and I do not like that our countries are are participating in those conditions

We are keeping them strangled and we are whining later because they come to us... I don't think we have a reason to whine in the first place. We should do that when our country stop destroying theirs.

 

[NAMELESS]

I also experienced it and I would say the opposite





I nether like nor dislike migrants. I think we should accept them no matter of who they are. Some people are cool, some are asshole, like any groups of population.

But I do not like the conditions that they had to live with and I do not like what out countries are doing to these nations.

We are keeping them strangled and we are whining later because they come to us... I don't think we have a reason to whine in the first place. We should do that when our country stop destroying theirs.

I absolutely agree. France should take in everyone they wronged and stop whining about it. Rare Logiko

 

[Okamakama]

This is why I'm asking you question, I want to understand who you got that political vision. I'm not saying that I will agree or that I will never contradict you, but I'm now genuingly curious.

By seeing my country slowly devolve into a distrusting society, Logiko. By living in ghettos and experiencing your multi-cultural paradise. From watching my wife be afraid to leave the house without me due to these people roaming the streets nearby. From having my 74 year old mother-in-law almost attacked by such thugs.

You may think of me as some heartless monster, but I live in the real world, Logiko. I interact with people. I see working class people have their jobs stolen by low-skilled migrants. I see people get assaulted. I see people scared for what their country is becoming.

I believe that multiple culture can coexist without having to delimite them by borders or national rules.

This is false. Once again, you say 'I believe'. You don't actually know this. Cultures can exist parallel, but without a dominant culture, they will not remain peaceful forever. You're living in a delusion to think otherwise.

to be extra fair to @Logiko here, being in support of migrants/refugees and treating them well doesnt mean he likes the countries where the migrants are coming from

You know what, fair point, I concede that. It would be somewhat hypocritical however.

 

[Zenos7]

No. Science or rather researchers and scholar link ultra nationalism, anti-immigration politics and the reject of racialized outgroups with white supremacy. In fact this has been witnessed quite recently with the migration of thousands of Ukrainian (both legal and illegal):

When the migration from africa (for similar reasons) is considered a "great replacement", the migration of UKrainian was considered as a chance. This is directly linked to whiteness and whitesupremacy where some people are not considered worthy because of their racialization (most ukranians coming in France were considered white people "like us", by the political spectrum)

Well obviously racists are very likely going to be anti-immigration. but from that doesnt follow that this is a default for people who are anti-immigration. that link though to ultra nationalism was why i made my initial reply to this in the first place.

 

[Zenos7]

The Portuguese rip you off even in your way out lol

ye fuck em

 

[Okamakama]

Well obviously racists are very likely going to be anti-immigration.

True racists want them here...
I've heard many migrants and self-hating citizens wanting more migrants here because it's "too" white.

 

[NAMELESS]

after experiencing the multicultural experiment first hand all throughout my life, i definitely consider it a failed experiment.

Some character development right here.

 

[Okamakama]

after experiencing the multicultural experiment first hand all throughout my life, i definitely consider it a failed experiment.

 

[Okamakama]

I absolutely agree. France should take in everyone they wronged and stop whining about it. Rare Logiko

Logiko was right for a change.

 

[NAMELESS]

When the migration from africa (for similar reasons) is considered a "great replacement", the migration of UKrainian was considered as a chance. This is directly linked to whiteness and whitesupremacy where some people are not considered worthy because of their racialization (most ukranians coming in France were considered white people "like us", by the political spectrum)

So, wanting to keep your region ethnically and culturally homogenous is racism in your book?

 

[Logiko]

I absolutely agree. France should take in everyone they wronged and stop whining about it. Rare Logiko

By seeing my country slowly devolve into a distrusting society, Logiko.

I'm sorry that you feel a distrust in your community. I rather feel the opposite. I can now say with 100% that I will trust people (migrants included) now that I didn't trust in the past.

From watching my wife be afraid to leave the house without me due to these people roaming the streets nearby. From having my 74 year old mother-in-law almost attacked by such thugs.

I'm sorry that Asshole are surrounding you.

You may think of me as some heartless monster, but I live in the real world, Logiko

I never considered any of you as monsters for your political opinions.

I can be angry with you, even to the max of my capacities sometimes.. but I will never dehumanize you.

I see working class people have their jobs stolen by low-skilled migrants. I see people get assaulted. I see people scared for what their country is becoming.

While I can't negate what you are living. Know that fear sometimes creates a vision of the world where all we can see is fear itself.

People often reflect what we give to them. For example, until recently, I was not willing to accept people not being able to accept what I was saying. So in return, you all gave me a form of rejection that I deserved. I've been trying to change that. I hope you can feel it.

This is false. Once again, you say 'I believe'. You don't actually know this.

Actually I do. There are many examples of that. For example, I learned recently that there have been cohabitation of different forms of culture in the "americas" between indigenous people and ancient slave who kept the cultural specificities of both thus creating a new form of culture, children of the two.

I think this is a beautiful thing and something all culture should strive for as when two cultures meet, none are destroyed, they both enrich eachothers and keep living within the new culture. Just like new languages

In a shared world, there are not such things as "a dominant" culture, we do not think that way. I do not have a wish to keep the old for the sake of keeping the old.

We share our existences and history, therefore we become stronger together.

but from that doesnt follow that this is a default for people who are anti-immigration. that link though to ultra nationalism was why i made my initial reply to this in the first place

It's no really something because are necessarily, it's more about a link within the systems of belief. White supremacy act in tandem with capitalism, both systems are linked together. As such, they will reproduce forms of politics that can be analyzed through their interactions. Anti-immigration politics are such a politic.

These types of politics are heavily push by capitalism in order to divide the working class (between people who will accept others VS people who will reject them). As such capitalism uses white supremacy in order to stay alive. And in return, white supremacy, uses capitalism in order to keep racialized people within margianlized class systems.

This type of analysis can't be done through a simple anticapitalist lens or simply an antiracist lens. A real vision of the future will be intersectionnal.

I'll be trying to share just how great the future can become and can be pictured through this lens.

So, wanting to keep your region ethnically and culturally homogenous is racism in your book?

I do believe that this vision is a result of the intersectionnality of capitalism and white supremacy. So to me, it's necessarily racist yes.