Controversial General Political Discussion

[Zenos7]

Which of the multiple Christian denominations that came to existence after Jesus' death are you talking about?

most of them, afaik only very few denominations dont think jesus was god as well as human.

it obviously took some time for it to be articulated as such, what im referring to is the articulation of the council of chalcedon in like the 5th century or something.

i do think the idea that jesus was god/considered himself to be god can be supported with the bible. Though cosmic skeptic recently published something where he wants to challenge the usual go-to passage of "before abraham was, i am". i didnt get around to watching it yet though

 

[Blax Blah]

Main difference is that spiritual dictatorships are not about the afterlife but about life on earth.
I'd call it spiritual abuse tho, conceptualized by worldly rulers to wield power over living humans and control their thoughts and behavior.
There's a reason those types of religions have gods that look and act like humans. Even the Greek gods were pretty much like humans but completely amoral and with personality disorders.

You're so smart you're damning yourself to hell trying to be clever and show yourself as wise

 

[Zenos7]

Because bot

you mean that in a literal way that he is actually a bot, or just a comparison?

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Because God made everything, is just and holy, and also gives out a get out of jail free card that you can't lose and then takes you to paradise with him and to reign with him

So God intended the world of the living to be a jail in order to blackmail people?

God literally took your own place, Jesus was treated as if he lived like you did, what room is there to say God is a dictator when he does that?

Yea sounds like blackmail

considered himself to be god can be supported with the bible

Bible was written iirc 100 years after his death. We know fckall about what the man said.
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you mean that in a literal way that he is actually a bot, or just a comparison?

Am I a fortune teller or what?

 

[Zenos7]

God literally took your own place, Jesus was treated as if he lived like you did, what room is there to say God is a dictator when he does that?

the fact he eternally torments people that dont believe in him? and he isnt really putting in any effort to convince people. and he could convince literally every single person on this planet this very moment since he is omnipotent, but he doesnt.

so either he doesnt care that we are not going to paradise, in that case he isnt omnibenevolent, or he cant change any of this, in that case he isnt omnipotent, or he didnt know about our actions that lead to us not receiving salvation, in that case he isnt omniscient.

either way, the omni-traits are self-defeating.
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physical body

jesus has a physical body in heaven?

 

[Blax Blah]

the fact he eternally torments people that dont believe in him? and he isnt really putting in any effort to convince people. and he could convince literally every single person on this planet this very moment since he is omnipotent, but he doesnt.

so either he doesnt care that we are not going to paradise, in that case he isnt omnibenevolent, or he cant change any of this, in that case he isnt omnipotent, or he didnt know about our actions that lead to us not receiving salvation, in that case he isnt omniscient.

either way, the omni-traits are self-defeating.
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jesus has a physical body in heaven?

And I don't really know what to say about this, but there is a fire theme with God, that may have to do with what hell is:



Hebrews 12:29

29 For our God is a consuming fire.


.



1 Peter 1:7

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


.



Revelation 19:12-13

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.


13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.


.




This is talking to christians:




2 Corinthians 5:10

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


.


1 Corinthians 3:13-15

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.



14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.



15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.



.




1 John 3:2-3

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

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Look at what it says


Jesus Christ is a consuming fire, and he has eyes as a flame of fire


At the judgement seat of Christ, christians' work get judged


Their works are revealed by fire and the fire tries every man's work of what sort it is


If the work abides, they get a reward, if it gets burned, the person is still saved, yet so as by fire

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Psalms 104:1-4

1Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. 2Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain: 3Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind: 4Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:


Jeremiah 23:29 - Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?



Jeremiah 20:9 - Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay.


Acts 2:1-4


1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.



Jude 1:7 - Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.



Exodus 3:2 - And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

You're so smart you're damning yourself to hell trying to be clever and show yourself as wise

Me : stating some well attested facts
You : threatens with hell


Bro this is better like debating cn4

and he isnt really putting in any effort to convince people. and he could convince literally every single person on this planet this very moment since he is omnipotent, but he doesnt.

A dictator tries to convince only through threats and torture

 

[Blax Blah]

Me : stating some well attested facts
You : threatens with hell


Bro this is better like debating cn4

A dictator tries to convince only through threats and torture

Prove them if they are facts

You are just trying to seem clever, I wonder how many atheists were killed by the catholic church vs how many protestants were killed by the catholic church

That seemingly clever anti authority take is landing you in hell

 

[Zenos7]

Bible was written iirc 100 years after his death. We know fckall about what the man said.

we dont know for sure when the books of the new testament were written, earliest copies are around that time, early 2nd century and beyond.
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Am I a fortune teller or what?

Yes

 

[Blax Blah]

jesus has a physical body in heaven?

Yeah he is seen face to face

 

[Zenos7]

Prove them if they are facts

You are just trying to seem clever, I wonder how many atheists were killed by the catholic church vs how many protestants were killed by the catholic church

That seemingly clever anti authority take is landing you in hell

man this really leaves a bad taste considering how incredibly positive you usually are. . . .
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Yeah he is seen face to face

do we have physical bodies in heaven?

 

[Etzel Andergast]

It’s irrelevant to me whether the universe was created or is eternal, that doesn’t change anything about the kind of theism I find interesting.

 

[Blax Blah]

man this really leaves a bad taste considering how incredibly positive you usually are. . . .
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do we have physical bodies in heaven?

It's a positive message, you can get out of having to go to hell, for free

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

.

1 Corinthians 15:40-44
40

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41

There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43

It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

.

Joel 2:1-11
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

2

A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

3

A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.


4


The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.

5

Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

6

Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.

7

They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:

8

Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.

9

They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.

10

The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

11

And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?




.

Yeah saved people will have a body, but not necesarilly in heaven, maybe at the end of the world or the rapture, I don't know the exact details

 

[Zenos7]

We know fckall about what the man said

we know very little in general, because extra-biblical sources are scarce and mainly talk about what his followers are saying about him.

in bible research there is a differentiation between the kerygmatic jesus, the historical jesus, and the real jesus. the latter being the actual person that inspired the new testament writing, the historical jesus is an attempt to filter the new testament writing on what would be historically valid to accredit to someone from that time, and the kerygmatic jesus being the savior-messiah-type figure of the new testament writings.
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It's a positive message, you can get out of having to go to hell, for free

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

.

1 Corinthians 15:40-44
40

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41

There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43

It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

.

Joel 2:1-3
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

2

A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

3

A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

.

Yeah saved people will have a body, but not necesarilly in heaven, maybe at the end of the world or the rapture, I don't know the exact details

can you please just put the bible stuff in spoilers or just share a link and tell us what passages to look at? or just tell me the passage and i look it up in my own bible?

scrolling through your posts to find what you are saying as opposed what is you spamming bible verses is tedious.

 

[Blax Blah]

Romans 8:28-29

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

.

Also when someone is saved, they are predestinated to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ
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we know very little in general, because extra-biblical sources are scarce and mainly talk about what his followers are saying about him.

in bible research there is a differentiation between the kerygmatic jesus, the historical jesus, and the real jesus. the latter being the actual person that inspired the new testament writing, the historical jesus is an attempt to filter the new testament writing on what would be historically valid to accredit to someone from that time, and the kerygmatic jesus being the savior-messiah-type figure of the new testament writings.
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can you please just put the bible stuff in spoilers or just share a link and tell us what passages to look at? or just tell me the passage and i look it up in my own bible?

scrolling through your posts to find what you are saying as opposed what is you spamming bible verses is tedious.

Sure

 

[Zenos7]

It’s irrelevant to me whether the universe was created or is eternal, that doesn’t change anything about the kind of theism I find interesting.

the universe being eternal is antithetical to the cosmological argument theists use to argue that the universe requires a creator in the first place. though this is more philosophical and not necessarily important to theism itself, i grant you that.

Plenty of scientists are still religious regardless of this as well

 

[Blax Blah]

If you guys were as humble as you are smart, you would have received salvation by trusting Jesus with it and be doing a lot more good works than I am

 

[Zenos7]

If you guys were as humble as you are smart, you would have received salvation by trusting Jesus with it and be doing a lot more good works than I am

please read my posts again where i outline my religious past and motivation to find god and then kindly fuck off

 

[Blax Blah]

please read my posts again where i outline my religious past and motivation to find god and then kindly fuck off

I sincerely apologise, I don't mean to offend you, but what posts?

 

[Zenos7]

i was still religious half my life dude. i have tried to be humble and ask for salvation. i even visited the supposedly holy site of fatima in portugal.

this one for example.