Speculations Handful of the strongest

[nik87]

It is not a secret that Oda likes to add double or even triple meaning to some statements, names of the chapters and so on.
Kaido's words: You cannot conquer the seas with abilities, only Haki transcends everything is one of those with several meanings...

Today, we address another statement from Kaido: Only a handful of the strongest can! (infuse things with CoC haki)

These words also have a double meaning and they refer to what we just saw from Emeth(Joyboy) and earlier from Shanks.
First of all, the strongest people are those who can infuse things with aCoC, this is why Admiral level people freak out about CoC.

However, there are too many who can infuse things with CoC, too many to make a handful!
Handful refers to the number 5! And there are more than 5 people who can infuse things with CoC.
That brings us to the conclusion that Kaido's words refer to something else which is gathering haki to negate Devil Fruits entirely.

So, among the strongest people aka those who can use aCoC, we have to pick only a handful(5) to determine the very strongest aka top 5.
The figures of the past who may have been capable of this do not count so choose only 5 from current end-game until EOS.

Let's make that list of handful of the very strongest aka those who are capable of negating Devil Fruit abilities.
Shanks is a given name on this list as he has already demonstrated this ability at the end of Wano.
That leaves us with a task to figure out 4 names more.
Advice - you have to look at this from EOS perspective, when everyone has reached their prime strength.

1 - Shanks, already shown it.
2 - Mihawk, the guy with haki stronger than Shanks' haki. A guy with #1 haki feat in the world due to Yoru being #1.
3 - Zoro, the guy who has to lift his haki above Mihawk's haki in order to achieve his dream.
4 - Dragon, one of the big 3 from East Blue alongside Mihawk and Shanks. The most dangerous criminal in the world and main anti-WG.
5 - Luffy? Most people would probably choose the MC here but there are plenty of reasons to doubt this. But is there really a better replacement?

Imu? DF merchant who trembles at the feat he is supposedly capable of? Unlikely.
Blackbeard? The guy who cares only about Devil Fruits? Extremely unlikely.
Coby? Way too unlikely considering his stage and lack of CoC to begin with.
Sabo? Logia and COC? ... Unlikely.

What is your list of a handful of the very strongest? Remember, EOS perspective.

 

[Albino 👑]

 

[RoronoaZorro]

Luffy Shanks Zoro is a must because they're Oda's favorite.

The other two SHOULD be Mihawk (the world strongest swordsman) and Dragon (the world most dangerous man).

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

But is there really a better replacement?

 

[Salah WG]

When it comes to Advanced CoC, it seems that it's not something that CoC Users can just Train for
Doflamingo Comment on Luffy in Punk Hazard suggest that He knows about Next Level CoC, He simply couldn't have it just like many others

Just having CoC makes you a "King", but that means those who Unlock Advanced CoC are like King of Kings
And you pointed out how Kaidou specifically used the term associated with "Five" & this matches with him picking his Top 5
But you know what else about Kaidou matches with Number Five? His Attacks

Kaidou gets hard at the thought of Fighting such People, so it would make sense that He names his Techniques in relation to them since it's his entire Purpose, and Kaidou names his Techniques after "Five Wisdom Kings" which matches with what you explained

In other words, OPVerse Top 5 represent Five Wisdom Kings
However, Kaidou's Top 5 should represent the Candidates & Top 5 who Failed, not the actual Five
So since Shanks is included then i don't think Disabling DFs is the requirement, instead it's something "Greater"

Imo Peak CoA is Destroying what should be Impossible (Internal Destruction) & Peak CoO is Hearing what should be Impossible (Voice of All Things) & Peak CoC is Conquering what should be Impossible

The only thing that is considered impossible to Conquer even by Kings is "Death" itself
So imo OPVerse Top 5 are those who Conquered Death (Which conveniently was also mentioned by Kaidou so it adds up)

And it's not about Surviving Death, Conquering Death means it becomes your Servant, it's like your Haki will have Death Mark on it, which enables the User to Kill what cannot be Killed, what's that? DFs, All Devils are Immortal, even after their User Dies, There is still Rebirth for them, and as long as They exist & in hands of People, One Piece Story can never truly End

So imo OPVerse Top 5 = Top 5 CoC Users = Five Great Wisdom Kings = Death Conquerors = Those who can Kill DFs, not just Disable them.
Shanks being only one left from Kaidou's Top 5 is so we can use him as Benchmark, meaning those Top 5 are those who Surpass Shanks.

Luffy, Zoro, Mihawk, Dragon are Prime Candidates
Not sure who's Fifth

 

[Blazing Lion]

I dont know where you got the handful to be restricted to 5, are you counting the fingers and thumb? For us to go this way (taking meanings of statements) we have to look at the raws.

As for DF negation, I think it is probably specific usage of haki, a learned skill like ID and not the next level of haki as many are implying it to be.

We know you can use basic CoA to damage a DF user, the problem of dealing with Logias was settled by this. We also know that you can use a great amount of haki/CoA to counter DF effects on yourself and others (Law did it in his submarine).

We know passive haki can stop DF hax affecting you like Kaido and BM against Law.
We know CoC can negate DF of DF user as shown by Shanks and JB. So DF negation on DF user is something shown by CoC users while self DF counter is CoA and cancelling intangibility is also CoA.

CoC users affecting DF powers of DF users aligns well with the CoC being defined as imposing your will on others or standing above others. The ability on whom you can effect this way can probably be learned like ID but it is also dependent on whose haki is stronger and thats why it will be above the others. We get a direct comparison when Zoro comments that he can cut Pica because his haki is stronger. So if both fighters have CoC and one has DF then the DF users DF powers will only be negated if his haki is weaker than the other guys.

Chinjao also said something similar that to be PK you have stand atop the many other kings. As for people who can have this are:
1. Shanks
2. Luffy
3. BB (if he has ACoC)
4. Dragon
5. Mihawk
6. Zoro

Mihawk and Zoro will probably never show this because it is not something that I think Oda will focus on. He has kept Luffy and Zoro with different fighting styles and abilities and this is something that I can see Oda keeping strictly for Luffy. Zoro and Mihawk will have the ability to cut anything and nothing so DF negation on DF user is not something they need (just like ID even though they might have it like Ray, it will not be showcased), they will just cut anything in their way and hence dont need to counter DF this way.

Shanks has shown it, Luffy will obviously get it because of next JB/Nika, BB might get it since he is also aiming for the very top but there is a big doubt because he has not shown any CoC so far at all. Dragon is a likely candidate because of MC dad but he may also not get it.

Basically the guys who are going to fight Logia Admirals will not have this because then the whole fight is meaningless mid diff for them and Oda wont disprespect the Admirals this way even though he showed it against GB but then that was for his fav boy Shanks and Film Red releasing.

Again the problem is that this is speculation, we have statements that compare Shanks haki to Elders and Ray and WB yet we also have him having a feat similar to JB. We also have JBs haki only negating DFs of Elders and not effecting Doll. And we also have Saturn staying at Egghead while the others were sent back.

 

[park_min young]

Akainu will kill Dragon so it should be him

 

[Patryipe]

Vinsmoke Sanji.

 

[nik87]

I dont know where you got the handful to be restricted to 5, are you counting the fingers and thumb? For us to go this way (taking meanings of statements) we have to look at the raws.

As for DF negation, I think it is probably specific usage of haki, a learned skill like ID and not the next level of haki as many are implying it to be.

We know you can use basic CoA to damage a DF user, the problem of dealing with Logias was settled by this. We also know that you can use a great amount of haki/CoA to counter DF effects on yourself and others (Law did it in his submarine).

We know passive haki can stop DF hax affecting you like Kaido and BM against Law.
We know CoC can negate DF of DF user as shown by Shanks and JB. So DF negation on DF user is something shown by CoC users while self DF counter is CoA and cancelling intangibility is also CoA.

CoC users affecting DF powers of DF users aligns well with the CoC being defined as imposing your will on others or standing above others. The ability on whom you can effect this way can probably be learned like ID but it is also dependent on whose haki is stronger and thats why it will be above the others. We get a direct comparison when Zoro comments that he can cut Pica because his haki is stronger. So if both fighters have CoC and one has DF then the DF users DF powers will only be negated if his haki is weaker than the other guys.

Chinjao also said something similar that to be PK you have stand atop the many other kings. As for people who can have this are:
1. Shanks
2. Luffy
3. BB (if he has ACoC)
4. Dragon
5. Mihawk
6. Zoro

Mihawk and Zoro will probably never show this because it is not something that I think Oda will focus on. He has kept Luffy and Zoro with different fighting styles and abilities and this is something that I can see Oda keeping strictly for Luffy. Zoro and Mihawk will have the ability to cut anything and nothing so DF negation on DF user is not something they need (just like ID even though they might have it like Ray, it will not be showcased), they will just cut anything in their way and hence dont need to counter DF this way.

Shanks has shown it, Luffy will obviously get it because of next JB/Nika, BB might get it since he is also aiming for the very top but there is a big doubt because he has not shown any CoC so far at all. Dragon is a likely candidate because of MC dad but he may also not get it.

Basically the guys who are going to fight Logia Admirals will not have this because then the whole fight is meaningless mid diff for them and Oda wont disprespect the Admirals this way even though he showed it against GB but then that was for his fav boy Shanks and Film Red releasing.

Again the problem is that this is speculation, we have statements that compare Shanks haki to Elders and Ray and WB yet we also have him having a feat similar to JB. We also have JBs haki only negating DFs of Elders and not effecting Doll. And we also have Saturn staying at Egghead while the others were sent back.

Google how much is a handful.
You got a good point with Mihawk and Zoro being able to cut everything and nothing so DF negation through Haki burst is kinda redundant so even if they are capable of it might not showcase it that way...
Blackbeard having it is also redundant as he already has that ability through Yami as that one cancels DFs too.

 

[Ninjashadow0209]

Google how much is a handful.
You got a good point with Mihawk and Zoro being able to cut everything and nothing so DF negation through Haki burst is kinda redundant so even if they are capable of it might not showcase it that way...
Blackbeard having it is also redundant as he already has that ability through Yami as that one cancels DFs too.

So this is when Luffy fights BB, him will learn, BB will negate his fruits, and Luffy will negate the Yami and Gura, so they will go straight at Haki battle.

 

[Blazing Lion]

Google how much is a handful.
You got a good point with Mihawk and Zoro being able to cut everything and nothing so DF negation through Haki burst is kinda redundant so even if they are capable of it might not showcase it that way...
Blackbeard having it is also redundant as he already has that ability through Yami as that one cancels DFs too.

hand·ful
[ˈhan(d)fʊl, ˈhan(d)f(ə)l]
noun

1. a quantity that fills the hand:
   "a small handful of fresh coriander"

a small number or amount:
"only a handful of people were in the pub"

Yeah BB may also not have it, he has close to zero haki feats so I am not very confident on him having ACoC

 

[nik87]

So this is when Luffy fights BB, him will learn, BB will negate his fruits, and Luffy will negate the Yami and Gura, so they will go straight at Haki battle.

I think it will play out differently.
BB will keep negating Luffy's DF based attacks the whole fight.
Only to have a taste of the same medicine at the end when Luffy negates all of his.
BB doesn't seem like much of a hakiman to fight Luffy with haki alone so it will probably happen at the very end.

hand·ful
[ˈhan(d)fʊl, ˈhan(d)f(ə)l]
noun

1. a quantity that fills the hand:
   "a small handful of fresh coriander"

a small number or amount:
"only a handful of people were in the pub"

Yeah BB may also not have it, he has close to zero haki feats so I am not very confident on him having ACoC

My bad, google >what number is a handful.
In general, when it refers to people, it is assumed to mean five, or less.
Which is what Kaido refers to when he says how many people can do it...
Yeah, if I had to bet on someone not having ability to cancel DFs through Haki I would bet on Blackbeard.

 

[V Runcandel]

Google how much is a handful.
You got a good point with Mihawk and Zoro being able to cut everything and nothing so DF negation through Haki burst is kinda redundant so even if they are capable of it might not showcase it that way...
Blackbeard having it is also redundant as he already has that ability through Yami as that one cancels DFs too.

I believe instead of Haki bursts.
Swordsman Condense their Haki in their sword.
Some other level of Hardening and Reach black blade state.
An ability not known to Roger / Shanks.

 

[nik87]

I believe instead of Haki bursts.
Swordsman Condense their Haki in their sword.
Some other level of Hardening and Reach black blade state.
An ability not known to Roger / Shanks.

Well I think all that we saw from Haki so far is hinting towards the Black Blades, including this recent infusion in a rope.
aCoC and KOH are just stepping stones towards it as well.
I don't think it is as simple as not knowing the ability but more like not being capable of achieving it.
Oda wants only 2 characters to be capable of this, Zoro and his ultimate target.

 

[Alexis2282AE]

Akainu will kill Dragon so it should be him

 

[Santoryu D Bazooka]

So are you saying Zoro once again has tapped into something before Luffy? i have always wondered this.

While i think this too much even for Zoro.

The Rope Boy Haki thing. I thought it affected the Gorosei because they are a "projection" sort of but Saturn is there too. Also i don't know if you guys agree on this but. I think affect of AdvCoC is forcing intimidation by hitting them.

Meaning that Thunder Bagua is a regular attack if used only with CoA but if infused with CoC it could knock out those who are unprepared and without the ability to coat themselves in CoC to defend. Which separate those who can use it from others.

So if this next level is just glaring to wipe out people like Admirals is going to be used by Dragon/Mihawk/Shanks/Luffy/Zoro is overkill i think. If anyone should have it is just the MC.

 

[Alexis2282AE]

1. Imu
2. Dragon
3. Shanks
4. Mihawk
5. Luffy

 

[V Runcandel]

Well I think all that we saw from Haki so far is hinting towards the Black Blades, including this recent infusion in a rope.
aCoC and KOH are just stepping stones towards it as well.
I don't think it is as simple as not knowing the ability but more like not being capable of achieving it.
Oda wants only 2 characters to be capable of this, Zoro and his ultimate target.

It is.
Like DF negation , you don't need "Strong" haki.
You need a "lot" of haki at once.
Yonkou seems to well known to this ability.
Law learnt it , but luffy did not not sure if zoro did or not.
But It's an ability or application.
No one can be good at everything.

Blackblades I believe is the condensed form of haki. Instead of all the haki leaking out while using Conqueror Coating. It stays in one place giving the sword unparalled Defense and Offense.

 

[Rej]

Can someone shut this thread down please? I have seen the same Zoro>Luffy and Mihawk>Shanks from the same pathetic losers the past year and it's always the same discussions.

 

[Blazing Lion]

My bad, google >what number is a handful.
In general, when it refers to people, it is assumed to mean five, or less.
Which is what Kaido refers to when he says how many people can do it...
Yeah, if I had to bet on someone not having ability to cancel DFs through Haki I would bet on Blackbeard.

n my native language you can say “a handful of xxxx” when you’re talking about 5 items or people. A small handful is four. Can you do that in English as well?
How much amount is "a handful of?" : r/EnglishLearning (reddit.com)
(British) It's frustratingly vague. Some people will say "a handful of people" to mean exactly five; others use it to mean "a few, not many". It can also mean a literal handful, as in the image.

Then again, I've met a few people who insist that a handful means "five", even when talking about small objects. I would say they're in the minority though.

I've not heard "a small handful" in British English.

This is the first and probably only result of the google search that mentions handful to be five or less. Its a reddit post and not the oxford dictionary so cant really take the five imo.

I was basically saying that we are trying for a translation of a translation here, whats the actual raw japanese [phrase and does that allude to the number 5?

Post automatically merged: Aug 8, 2024

So are you saying Zoro once again has tapped into something before Luffy? i have always wondered this.

While i think this too much even for Zoro.

The Rope Boy Haki thing. I thought it affected the Gorosei because they are a "projection" sort of but Saturn is there too. Also i don't know if you guys agree on this but. I think affect of AdvCoC is forcing intimidation by hitting them.

Meaning that Thunder Bagua is a regular attack if used only with CoA but if infused with CoC it could knock out those who are unprepared and without the ability to coat themselves in CoC to defend. Which separate those who can use it from others.

So if this next level is just glaring to wipe out people like Admirals is going to be used by Dragon/Mihawk/Shanks/Luffy/Zoro is overkill i think. If anyone should have it is just the MC.

That @Rootbeer Confession in the sig