if Oda wants to keep Marine relevant (which should be the case considering Luffy relationship with Akainu and the fact an admiral still haven't been introduced), this is unlikely lol. Straw Hats just kicked the ass of an emperor crew top dogs, they had allies but they will also have allies during the war against the WG as the WG is the enemy of a LOT of people. Even if somehow Gorosei reveal themselves to be super powerful fighters, they're still only five characters. And the war should be massive.
Without powerscaling, the exterior help WB pirates got from Crocodile,(who switched side early in the war) Jinbe (who kicked Moria ass, shichibukai on marine side) , Ivankov ( who was matching with Kuma, shichibukai on marine side), Luffy (who kicked 2 shichibukai ass pre timeskip), hundreds of evadees WB called "dangerous" counterbalance a lot the help from Shichibukai considering Jinbe joining WB side, Blackbeard's absence, Hancock literally attacking both camp, Moria getting trashed by Jinbe Kuma getting stalled by Ivankov, Mihawk clearly being casual and present as a tourist (people have been shitting over a decade on mihawk for being a fraud based on his mediocre Marineford display ), Doffy clashing with Crocodile.
Not claiming they didn't help, as it would be as lie as the manga clearly said they did but maybe you get my point.
Then you realize that until Blackbeard arrival, Sengoku and Garp (two of the five strongest marines in MF) only action was one punch. That's it. They stayed basically all of the war on the execution plateform. The two strongest marines alongside Admirals never had to get personally involved the melee til Blackbeard tried to sink MF.
About the commanders/Admirals stuff, I see it simply : Commanders got several free hits on admirals yet it virtually had no consequences on them. Only a rampaging WB did lasting damage to one and it still wasn't enough. An admiral got a free hit on a commander and it was over.
Also a rectification; Aokiji and Kizaru never went for YCs but straight for their captain. Some fans have a mandela effect of remembering MF as Admirals having several chapters long duel against Marco or Joz but that never happened. Joz vs Aokiji was going on for less than a chapter before WB's heart problem kicked in and Marco vs Kizaru only had a small clash that amounted for 4 pages at the beginning of the war Heck, Kizaru came out of the war without even a dirt on his face or clothes (implying that he didn't struggle at any moment of the war) meanwhile Kaido had a 10 chapters long fight with Yamato. (yet it is pretty clear that for how strong she is, there's still a decent gap between her and emperor level characters like Shanks, Kaido BM and Blackbeard). The distraction stuff was a good way to have Admirals take out the commanders quickly to create drama while keeping powerlevels nebulous. (which was successfull as a decade later fans are stil not sure what an all out admiral is worth). Even Akainu getting "asskicked" by an enraged Sickbeard started through a cheapshot to the head from behind and we know how devastating these type of cheapshots can be in this series. Then the ground immediately collapsed . What would happened if the fight continued? Would Akainu still have gotten asskicked or due to the effect of surprise being gone Akainu would have regained control and ultimately take WB life? After all he took half of WB head while being subject to his sudden fury.
If there one thing I understand with the way Oda write, is that antagonists only show their full abilities when the time of their downfall is close. We had no idea BM could use souls on herself as a wat to heal or boost her strenght in WCI, we had no idea Kaido could pull a island sized super hot flame dragon avatar til 2 chapters ago despite the fight against him going on for fifty fucking chapters. I think Oda kept marine abilities mysteriou enough for that.
Really, the danger for the Marine always came from Whitebeard ability that potentially allowed him to sink Marineford. This was literally spelled by Sengoku, fleet admiral known for his intelligence and wiseness :
勢力で上回ろうが勝ちとタカをくくるなよ
"勢力で上回ろうが"
>Though we may have the superior force
>勝ちとタカをくくるなよ
"Let's not take the victory for granted by making, light of our opponents (タカをくくるなよ = idiom) [... ] (next page) as this man has the power to destroy the world!!! "
The existential threat always came from WB's ability in specific, not his crew as a whole as they had the superior force on paper. (And I really don't think Sengoku was portrayed as a cocky asshat).
Despite Oda putting brakes on the marine and shichibukai. it never seemed like they ever came close from getting defeated.
WB pirates themselves never came close from rescuing Ace either, it was Luffy who did , and only because Garp allowed him to get past him due to personal feelings.
Marineford did took some heavy damages during the battle but all were done by the power of the Gura Gura, which is exactly what Sengoku was wary of. Heck, only named marines to be shown defeated were giants (known jobbers) that were defeated by WB himself and one by Luffy and Koby who was a scrub at this point. WB commanders defeated nobody relevant.
I also see sometimes that WB pirates were the weakest yonkou crew but it has absolutely no basis and blatantly contradict the narrative.
WB was considered the king of the sea even at his old age for a reason. Heck, the narrator called WB crew at the time of their MF defeat to be "all-powerful" (最強 in japanese).
Yes WB was sick. But he still had his Gura Gura power and neither the two legends from his era on marine side got much involved in the actual fighting.
And no, I don't think the scene Shanks stopped war scene should be used for powerscaling, Shanks is a character full of mystery when it comes to his relationship with different factions.
I'm not going to argue number about how marine are equivalent 1.25/1.5/2/2.5 yonkou crew or whatever as Oda doesn't think that way, but I'm confident Marine + SSG (shichibukai replacement that won't betray them ) will be a great chunk above an emperor crew when comes their time in the story to display their full power before ultimately falling, as Oda always worked.
I think Straw Hats vs Red Hair pirates (if it happens) would be the only battle where straw hats would fight without any allies at it would be a very personal battle so it could happen at the end without them being stronger than every previous organizations. Or maybe SHs vs Blackbeard pirates idk.
Without powerscaling, the exterior help WB pirates got from Crocodile,(who switched side early in the war) Jinbe (who kicked Moria ass, shichibukai on marine side) , Ivankov ( who was matching with Kuma, shichibukai on marine side), Luffy (who kicked 2 shichibukai ass pre timeskip), hundreds of evadees WB called "dangerous" counterbalance a lot the help from Shichibukai considering Jinbe joining WB side, Blackbeard's absence, Hancock literally attacking both camp, Moria getting trashed by Jinbe Kuma getting stalled by Ivankov, Mihawk clearly being casual and present as a tourist (people have been shitting over a decade on mihawk for being a fraud based on his mediocre Marineford display ), Doffy clashing with Crocodile.
Not claiming they didn't help, as it would be as lie as the manga clearly said they did but maybe you get my point.
Then you realize that until Blackbeard arrival, Sengoku and Garp (two of the five strongest marines in MF) only action was one punch. That's it. They stayed basically all of the war on the execution plateform. The two strongest marines alongside Admirals never had to get personally involved the melee til Blackbeard tried to sink MF.
About the commanders/Admirals stuff, I see it simply : Commanders got several free hits on admirals yet it virtually had no consequences on them. Only a rampaging WB did lasting damage to one and it still wasn't enough. An admiral got a free hit on a commander and it was over.
Also a rectification; Aokiji and Kizaru never went for YCs but straight for their captain. Some fans have a mandela effect of remembering MF as Admirals having several chapters long duel against Marco or Joz but that never happened. Joz vs Aokiji was going on for less than a chapter before WB's heart problem kicked in and Marco vs Kizaru only had a small clash that amounted for 4 pages at the beginning of the war Heck, Kizaru came out of the war without even a dirt on his face or clothes (implying that he didn't struggle at any moment of the war) meanwhile Kaido had a 10 chapters long fight with Yamato. (yet it is pretty clear that for how strong she is, there's still a decent gap between her and emperor level characters like Shanks, Kaido BM and Blackbeard). The distraction stuff was a good way to have Admirals take out the commanders quickly to create drama while keeping powerlevels nebulous. (which was successfull as a decade later fans are stil not sure what an all out admiral is worth). Even Akainu getting "asskicked" by an enraged Sickbeard started through a cheapshot to the head from behind and we know how devastating these type of cheapshots can be in this series. Then the ground immediately collapsed . What would happened if the fight continued? Would Akainu still have gotten asskicked or due to the effect of surprise being gone Akainu would have regained control and ultimately take WB life? After all he took half of WB head while being subject to his sudden fury.
If there one thing I understand with the way Oda write, is that antagonists only show their full abilities when the time of their downfall is close. We had no idea BM could use souls on herself as a wat to heal or boost her strenght in WCI, we had no idea Kaido could pull a island sized super hot flame dragon avatar til 2 chapters ago despite the fight against him going on for fifty fucking chapters. I think Oda kept marine abilities mysteriou enough for that.
Really, the danger for the Marine always came from Whitebeard ability that potentially allowed him to sink Marineford. This was literally spelled by Sengoku, fleet admiral known for his intelligence and wiseness :
勢力で上回ろうが勝ちとタカをくくるなよ
"勢力で上回ろうが"
>Though we may have the superior force
>勝ちとタカをくくるなよ
"Let's not take the victory for granted by making, light of our opponents (タカをくくるなよ = idiom) [... ] (next page) as this man has the power to destroy the world!!! "
The existential threat always came from WB's ability in specific, not his crew as a whole as they had the superior force on paper. (And I really don't think Sengoku was portrayed as a cocky asshat).
Despite Oda putting brakes on the marine and shichibukai. it never seemed like they ever came close from getting defeated.
WB pirates themselves never came close from rescuing Ace either, it was Luffy who did , and only because Garp allowed him to get past him due to personal feelings.
Marineford did took some heavy damages during the battle but all were done by the power of the Gura Gura, which is exactly what Sengoku was wary of. Heck, only named marines to be shown defeated were giants (known jobbers) that were defeated by WB himself and one by Luffy and Koby who was a scrub at this point. WB commanders defeated nobody relevant.
I also see sometimes that WB pirates were the weakest yonkou crew but it has absolutely no basis and blatantly contradict the narrative.
WB was considered the king of the sea even at his old age for a reason. Heck, the narrator called WB crew at the time of their MF defeat to be "all-powerful" (最強 in japanese).
Yes WB was sick. But he still had his Gura Gura power and neither the two legends from his era on marine side got much involved in the actual fighting.
And no, I don't think the scene Shanks stopped war scene should be used for powerscaling, Shanks is a character full of mystery when it comes to his relationship with different factions.
I'm not going to argue number about how marine are equivalent 1.25/1.5/2/2.5 yonkou crew or whatever as Oda doesn't think that way, but I'm confident Marine + SSG (shichibukai replacement that won't betray them ) will be a great chunk above an emperor crew when comes their time in the story to display their full power before ultimately falling, as Oda always worked.
I think Straw Hats vs Red Hair pirates (if it happens) would be the only battle where straw hats would fight without any allies at it would be a very personal battle so it could happen at the end without them being stronger than every previous organizations. Or maybe SHs vs Blackbeard pirates idk.
And I agree about BB and Shanks. Exciting times ahead tbh. For once in a decade we don't know what comes next and who's the next to fall.
