Powers & Abilities How Haki and Logia Abilities work (Explanation for Erkan12 and co.)

[ConquistadoR]

Maybe but nothing sure
Also it means Erkan is right they don't need haki to hurt each others

Bruh the entire point of this thread is to prove that melting Ice =/= being able to bypass Logia intangibility without using haki.

Even if you melt Aokiji it will not damage him since that will simply turn his logia body into another form from where he can reform himself. You need haki to hurt Aokiji.

 

[LolonoisZolo]

Luigi?
If you mean Fujitora, now that he holds the title of Admiral he is no longer a swordsman we already figured that out in another thread.
His infobox made by Oda also was falsely translated into "swordsman" despite it only saying "Katana User".
That would be the same as if Big Mom would be called a swordsman, even so she clearly isn't.

Yes I'm taking about Fujitora.
What ? So the guy with a sword that attacks exclusively with a sword and is based on the legend of the blind swordsman is not a swordsman ?
What ?

 

[scoobie3]

Yes I'm taking about Fujitora.
What ? So the guy with a sword that attacks exclusively with a sword and is based on the legend of the blind swordsman is not a swordsman ?
What ?

Before Fujitora joined the marines he was a swordsman and at that time Mihawk was stronger albeit presumably not by much otherwise Fuji wouldnt have been regarded as a candidate for the Admiral position.
After he joined the marines though he was given a devil fruit ability.

Simply wielding a sword to channel your attacks doesn't make you a swordsman.
A swordsman is somebody who uses sword techniques to cut his opponents down...
Fujitora's new fighting style revolves around his Devil Fruit attacks.
It literally wouldnt make a difference for Fujitora whether he would use a sword, a stick, a pipe like sabo or whatever to channel his devil fruit attacks.
Show me one panel of Admiral Fujitora not using his gravity devil fruit powers but instead cutting down an enemy with swordsmanship.

 

[M944]

Bruh the entire point of this thread is to prove that melting Ice =/= being able to bypass Logia intangibility without using haki.

Even if you melt Aokiji it will not damage him since that will simply turn his ice into another form from where he can reform himself. You need haki to hurt Aokiji.

If you can counter a DF you can bypass his intangibility
As they can burn or freeze their opponents they can bypass the intangibility
Luffy counter Enel Hence he could bypass the intangibility

 

[ConquistadoR]

If you can counter a DF you can bypass his intangibility
As they can burn or freeze their opponents they can bypass the intangibility
Luffy counter Enel Hence he could bypass the intangibility

Nope. Just read the OP post.

Luffy countered Enel because rubber is an insulator and stops the flow of electrons thereby bypassing the logia intangibility of Enel.
Luffy countered Crocodile by dousing himself with water/blood because wetting prevents sand from dispersing and stops the intangibility.

These are very specific counters.

Magma and Ice don't interact that way. You heat Aokiji and he merely transforms into another form of Ice and then Aokiji can cool it down whenever he wants. His real body sustains zero damage.

 

[GreenEggsAHam]

@GreenEggsAHam you got the clip when alainu freeze the volcano ?

Ice and magma is a statement irl.

It's in the zephyr movie but I can't find it.

The logic behind ''Mihawk > Admirals'' is simple
Admirals are more or less equals in strength
Luigi is an Admiral and a swordsman
Mihawk is the WSS
Therefor Mihawk > Luigi
Unless Luigi is weaker than his peers, it makes Mihawk > any admiral

It's quite simple why mihawk isn't stronger than all the admirals. Vista vivre card tells us he is able to compete with mihawk

. Fuji can clearly do more then compete with mihawk, its an extreme diff battle. It's not like it matters though oda could've implied to us the og admirals>mihawk during MF war when hawkeye had the weakest out of the 4 fights. Not only that Oda also portrayed kizaru getting blocked by the 2nd strongest Marco, Whilst Mihawk gets blocked by the 3rd strongest jozu.

 

[M944]

Nope. Just read the OP post.

Luffy countered Enel because rubber is an insulator and stops the flow of electrons thereby bypassing the logia intangibility of Enel.
Luffy countered Crocodile by dousing himself with water/blood because wetting prevents sand from dispersing and stops the intangibility.

These are very specific counters.

Magma and Ice don't interact that way. You heat Aokiji and he merely transforms into another form of Ice and then Aokiji can cool it down whenever he wants. His real body sustains zero damage.

Nope Akainu's Attack completely evaporated that ice block
Meaning it completely bypassed ice and destroyed it
If vapor is just another form or ice Aokiji's should be able to transform in Vapor but he can't
Ice also prevent magma to move if it freeze it

Both can bypass the intangibility of the other one

Aokiji is ice
Akainu is magma
Logia are there own element

As Magma can burn Ice it means Akainu can burn Aokiji
Ice can freeze Magma it means Aokiji can freeze Akainu

 

[Ssg super suit coby]

Like i thought and said it didn't do anything to her.
Nami dispersed her snow form with heat but it didn't damage her real body.
Well obviously if you can disperse her snow form by melting it it will delay her and push her back cause she has to regenerate it, that's why Nami says "It works".
You can clearly see in the panel Nami blew up her entire arm with the heat ball yet you can also clearly see that the snow is forming around it like it is only being dispersed.
If it truly affected her real body then her entire arm would've been gone...
Also there are no burn marks on her as well as neither blood nor bruises...
The "kyaa" seems more like a "surprised" reaction not a "being in pain" reaction.

The panel you provided is actual clear evidence that heat did in fact NOT affect her real body at all.
Monet rebuilt/regenerated her arm without problems that wouldn't be possible if actual damage to her real body was caused.

Here she gets cut in half with haki and doesn't regenerate from it, also you can see in that panel that there is no snow forming/dispersing around the cut part because haki bypassed the intangibility.

So in conclusion if the mera mera melts Monet without haki she will just regenerate/rebuild herself in the same fashion, nothing suggests otherwise.
So the same logic also applies to when Akainu and Aokiji hit each other without haki.

The reason why fire can melt ice easier than Magma is because magma is heated liquified rock with a lot of mass whereas fire is heated gas without any mass.
If you try to melt ice with flames it will melt a lot faster than when you put lava on it, in fact depending on the amount of ice putting magma on it doesn't even allow the ice to be melted entirely since the magma will be cooled down at some point.
Experiments from youtube:
Flames vs Ice
Lava vs Ice: (Also keep in mind this is a much more liquified version of it, Akainu's Magma is more solid than this)

Zoro didn't use haki in that panel to cut her though so.........

 

[ConquistadoR]

Nope Akainu's Attack completely evaporated that ice block
Meaning it completely bypassed ice and destroyed it

B R U H

That is Ice. That is not Aokiji's body.
That Ice piece that Jozu threw is not intangible. Aokiji's body is.

If vapor is just another form or ice Aokiji's should be able to transform in Vapor but he can't

Why should Aokiji willingly transform into a hotter form when his ability is mainly aimed at freezing people?
Or are you debating that Vapor is not another form of Ice, in which case my answer is just LOL.

As Magma can burn Ice it means Akainu can burn Aokiji
Ice can freeze Magma it means Aokiji can freeze Akainu

Akainu can melt Ice without haki.
He cannot melt Aokiji's body since he will just reform himself back.
Aokiji can freeze Magma without haki.
He cannot freeze Akainu's body since he will just reform himself back.

The whole point is they don't take damage on their real bodies without the usage of Haki.

Unless there are specific counters like Luffy vs Enel or Luffy vs Crocodile, you cannot hurt logias without using haki.

 

[Ssg super suit coby]

The thing is that we can clearly see that Aokij got burnt

and I dont recall it ever being stated that haki reinforces the effects of elemental damage on other logias. We saw Akainu claim that he could burn Ace not because he has haki or because counters and/or disables his fire, but simply because his element is hotter, so the effects that logias have on one another arent simply rock, paper and scissors

If haki can help one defend against a logias ability I don't see why it can't reinforce attacks from a logia.
Whether it's for attack or defense purposes armament haki reinforces hence why logia user like akainu would still need to use haki against akoiji
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B R U H

That is Ice. That is not Aokiji's body.
That Ice piece that Jozu threw is not intangible. Aokiji's body is.


Why should Aokiji willingly transform into a hotter form when his ability is mainly aimed at freezing people?
Or are you debating that Vapor is not another form of Ice, in which case my answer is just LOL.


Akainu can melt Ice without haki.
He cannot melt Aokiji's body since he will just reform himself back.
Aokiji can freeze Magma without haki.
He cannot freeze Akainu's body since he will just reform himself back.

The whole point is they don't take damage on their real bodies without the usage of Haki.

Unless there are specific counters like Luffy vs Enel or Luffy vs Crocodile, you cannot hurt logias without using haki.

You are 100 percent correct

 

[scoobie3]

Zoro didn't use haki in that panel to cut her though so.........

Out of shock her body reacted as if he did use haki though and that made a clear visual difference which was the point and is what matters.
Conquistador also gave a different better example.
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Nope Akainu's Attack completely evaporated that ice block
Meaning it completely bypassed ice and destroyed it
If vapor is just another form or ice Aokiji's should be able to transform in Vapor but he can't
Ice also prevent magma to move if it freeze it

Both can bypass the intangibility of the other one

Aokiji is ice
Akainu is magma
Logia are there own element

As Magma can burn Ice it means Akainu can burn Aokiji
Ice can freeze Magma it means Aokiji can freeze Akainu

Bullets heat up to 500° F or 260° C when fired do you think Aokiji can be harmed by bullets?
Just so you know Ice already starts melting at temperatures above 32° F or 0° C, a bullet would definitely burn Ice.

 

[Finalbeta]

Erkan doesn't even know that the admirals all not losers, imagine explaining some of intrinsic more difficult nature

 

[M944]

B R U H

That is Ice. That is not Aokiji's body.
That Ice piece that Jozu threw is not intangible. Aokiji's body is.

A logia is his element
Therefore

Why should Aokiji willingly transform into a hotter form when his ability is mainly aimed at freezing people?
Or are you debating that Vapor is not another form of Ice, in which case my answer is just LOL.

Does Aokiji's DF allows him to become vapor ?
No so If Akainu use Magma he will burn Aokiji

Akainu can melt Ice without haki.
He cannot melt Aokiji's body since he will just reform himself back.
Aokiji can freeze Magma without haki.
He cannot freeze Akainu's body since he will just reform himself back.

Except that they can't transform to another element
Aokiji is ice he will stay ice if he can't he is damaged
Akainu is magma if he can't stay magma he will be damaged

The whole point is they don't take damage on their real bodies without the usage of Haki

Except that no they can take damage even without haki involved

I can even when use Katakuri's example (he have a logia alike DF which was renamed special paramecia later) normally you can't tag him without haki but if you use water he lose his intangibility, fire based attacks affects him and so on...

 

[ConquistadoR]

A logia is his element
Therefore

A logia has the element and has the intangibility. Not the element alone.

Does Aokiji's DF allows him to become vapor ?

Is Vapor not another form of Ice? And how does Aokiji reform himself?

Except that they can't transform to another element
Aokiji is ice he will stay ice if he can't he is damaged
Akainu is magma if he can't stay magma he will be damaged

They aren't transforming into another element, it's the same thing in a different form. The fact is you cannot touch the real body of a Logia without haki.

I can even when use Katakuri's example (he have a logia alike DF which was renamed special paramecia later) normally you can't tag him without haki but if you use water he lose his intangibility, fire based attacks affects him and so on...

You are right about using Katakuri as an example, this helps my first point as well. He is a logia in everything but name so let's debate his intangibility.

When you use water, he does not become intangible. He only loses the stickiness property. There's a difference. Fire based attacks don't hurt his real body. What it does is it forces him to reform his own body.

Luffy ate a ton of Mochi before fighting Katakuri in G4. So can he damage Katakuri by eating a part of his arm when it's in mochi form? Lol no, he'll just reform his body.

 

[scoobie3]

@M944

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A logia is his element
Therefore

Does Aokiji's DF allows him to become vapor ?
No so If Akainu use Magma he will burn Aokiji



Except that they can't transform to another element
Aokiji is ice he will stay ice if he can't he is damaged
Akainu is magma if he can't stay magma he will be damaged




Except that no they can take damage even without haki involved

I can even when use Katakuri's example (he have a logia alike DF which was renamed special paramecia later) normally you can't tag him without haki but if you use water he lose his intangibility, fire based attacks affects him and so on...

following your logic Aokiji shouldnt have been able to rebuild himself after he was broken apart by Nico Robin

 

[HA001]

@M944

That's why he's so broken. He ain't ice he's cold itself. Water vapour surrounds him always hence he can make attacks or reform with the air itself

 

[scoobie3]

That's why he's so broken. He ain't ice he's cold itself. Water vapour surrounds him always hence he can make attacks or reform with the air itself

I mean Kizaru also rebuilt himself out of nothingness cause he is light itself so i'm pretty sure Akainu could do the same, if you wanted to imply otherwise.

 

[HA001]

I mean Kizaru also rebuilt himself out of nothingness cause he is light itself so i'm pretty sure Akainu could do the same, if you wanted to imply otherwise.

Nah kizaru reformed himself from the same light particles that were split
Akainu would do the same.

 

[duckman]

Like i thought and said it didn't do anything to her.
Nami dispersed her snow form with heat but it didn't damage her real body.
Well obviously if you can disperse her snow form by melting it it will delay her and push her back cause she has to regenerate it, that's why Nami says "It works".
You can clearly see in the panel Nami blew up her entire arm with the heat ball yet you can also clearly see that the snow is forming around it like it is only being dispersed.
If it truly affected her real body then her entire arm would've been gone...
Also there are no burn marks on her as well as neither blood nor bruises...
The "kyaa" seems more like a "surprised" reaction not a "being in pain" reaction.

The panel you provided is actual clear evidence that heat did in fact NOT affect her real body at all.
Monet rebuilt/regenerated her arm without problems that wouldn't be possible if actual damage to her real body was caused.

Here she gets cut in half with haki and doesn't regenerate from it, also you can see in that panel that there is no snow forming/dispersing around the cut part because haki bypassed the intangibility.

My mouth is gaping. So-called One Piece superfans read this nonsense and not a single one of you -- plus the one who found the panel -- realised this is complete and total nonsense?

 

[scoobie3]

My mouth is gaping. So-called One Piece superfans read this nonsense and not a single one of you -- plus the one who found the panel -- realised this is complete and total nonsense?

Pay attention to what Tashigi says maybe then your brain might comprehend that it doesn't matter whether haki wasn't actually used.
But yeah i was mistaken about that he used haki i misrembered the outcome of this fight, you got me.
Also pay attention to how Monet can't put herself back together despite haki not actually being used, since her body is reacting in a way that it would IF haki had been used.
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Nah kizaru reformed himself from the same light particles that were split
Akainu would do the same.

But now that you mentioned it seems insane how Aokiji has control over extreme amounts of negative/low temperatures... so Akainu beating him seems even more insane, yet you downplay him all the time?