General & Others How many more years it would've taken for Oden to forge black blade?
- Thread starter Boiroy
- Start date
I think it's possible that the Sword must be Broken to be forged into a Black Blade
It's like the User uses their Haki to restore the Blade after it was Shattered which requires immense Willpower & Haki & Bond
Oda always makes Zoro almost lose his Swords during Fights. This Statement of "I don't want my Swords to be Broken or Lose them" was literally said in Mr. 1 Fight, Pica Fight, Zombie Ryuma Fight, King Fight ... etc
So it's possible that Oda is hinting that as long as a Master Swordsman worries about losing their Swords & still think about controlling them then They didn't 100% make them submit to their will
Black Blade = Blade that cannot be Broken = Re-Forged by it's Owner
It's also hinted multiple times by portraying Swords as Partners or Living Beings rather than just an Iron Bar
So "Death leads to completion" could also apply on Swords
Just like Luffy/Zoro needed to Die, i believe Zoro's Swords needs to be Shattered & then Reforged to Unlock Black Blades
While Luffy must lose his DF (Which restricts him from Unlocking Final Haki Technique) & then retrieve it (Brook could be the Key here)
So imo it's not about Years or Training, it's all about Willpower
Ryuma forged his Black Blade cuz due to defending Wano for so long, his Sword eventually broke, but since his Will to protect Wano was so immense, He was able to reforge it & turn it Permanently Black
(Similar to how Anduril Sword from Lord of The Rings was Shattered & then Restored)
Overall, Forging a Black Blade indicates achieving Ultimate Level of Willpower + It becomes a Fully Tamed Sword, Unbroken & since it was Forged by Overwhelming Spirit, it becomes only Blade capable of defying even Death (Cuz imo Zoro's Final Feat is gonna be Killing Death itself)
It's like the User uses their Haki to restore the Blade after it was Shattered which requires immense Willpower & Haki & Bond
Oda always makes Zoro almost lose his Swords during Fights. This Statement of "I don't want my Swords to be Broken or Lose them" was literally said in Mr. 1 Fight, Pica Fight, Zombie Ryuma Fight, King Fight ... etc
So it's possible that Oda is hinting that as long as a Master Swordsman worries about losing their Swords & still think about controlling them then They didn't 100% make them submit to their will
Black Blade = Blade that cannot be Broken = Re-Forged by it's Owner
It's also hinted multiple times by portraying Swords as Partners or Living Beings rather than just an Iron Bar
So "Death leads to completion" could also apply on Swords
Just like Luffy/Zoro needed to Die, i believe Zoro's Swords needs to be Shattered & then Reforged to Unlock Black Blades
While Luffy must lose his DF (Which restricts him from Unlocking Final Haki Technique) & then retrieve it (Brook could be the Key here)
So imo it's not about Years or Training, it's all about Willpower
Ryuma forged his Black Blade cuz due to defending Wano for so long, his Sword eventually broke, but since his Will to protect Wano was so immense, He was able to reforge it & turn it Permanently Black
(Similar to how Anduril Sword from Lord of The Rings was Shattered & then Restored)
Overall, Forging a Black Blade indicates achieving Ultimate Level of Willpower + It becomes a Fully Tamed Sword, Unbroken & since it was Forged by Overwhelming Spirit, it becomes only Blade capable of defying even Death (Cuz imo Zoro's Final Feat is gonna be Killing Death itself)
Mihawk said that Zoro's swords won't be broken if they were clad in Haki. Obviously a Black Blade is better since the user won't need to use Haki all the time to keep the swords from being broken. But i think the whole i don't need my swords to break is resolved because Zoro will always keep them coated in haki.
I agree, but when Mihawk defeated him, Wado wasn't Shattered but other Two were, so we are supposed to conclude that Top Meito cannot be broken even without Haki (I'm talking from our Perspective as Fans who just started reading the Story)
But once He fought Zombie Ryuma (Who was like a Mini-WSS Duel), this Concept of getting Swords Broken was brought back again, where Oda confirmed that even Top Meito can be Destroyed (And it was against Shusui)
After that, when Mihawk was teaching Zoro Haki & He is the one who explained it just like you did now, He mentioned their Baratie Fight (Where again, Wado didn't get Shattered), it's like Oda is indirectly telling us that "Yes, Haki gonna make all your Weapons Unbreakable as long as it's Strong enough, even if it's a Bamboo Stick, but against a Black Blade or WSS, it's an exception"
Zombie Ryuma was clearly portrayed to be as Strong as Thriller Bark Zoro (Pre-Shusui ofc), They matched each other in everything, whether it's Strength, Speed or Technique, and even though both their Swords were Great Grade, Zoro commented that if the Fight lasts longer, his Sword gonna be Broken
So once Zoro reaches Mihawk's Level in everything, whether it's Haki, Strength, Speed, Technique ... etc if Zoro didn't forge Black Blades by then, Mihawk will still have the upper hand due to not only having a Black Blade like Zombie Ryuma, but this time it's also Higher Grade & arguably Strongest Blade Ever
I don't think Oda is gonna repeat exact same Scenario as Zombie Ryuma Fight where Zoro ends the fight before his Swords are Broken, i believe against Mihawk, Zoro will indeed lose his Swords & that's where He realizes that just like Cutting Nothing = Cutting Everything, then Weakest Blade (A Shattered One) can become Strongest Blade, cuz it all depends on the Swordsman's Willpower
Ofc, i'm not saying any of this is convincing enough, but it's a Scenario that might end up True
(Just like Oda makes Luffy always Laugh & fight in Funny Way till He unlocked Gear 5 or Zoro always faces near death experience till he faced Death itself, it's clear that when Oda repeats some things, then He is preparing to showcase End Product of that concept, in this case, Zoro always talks about losing his Swords in his Fights, so in his Final Fight, He should indeed lose them)
But once He fought Zombie Ryuma (Who was like a Mini-WSS Duel), this Concept of getting Swords Broken was brought back again, where Oda confirmed that even Top Meito can be Destroyed (And it was against Shusui)
After that, when Mihawk was teaching Zoro Haki & He is the one who explained it just like you did now, He mentioned their Baratie Fight (Where again, Wado didn't get Shattered), it's like Oda is indirectly telling us that "Yes, Haki gonna make all your Weapons Unbreakable as long as it's Strong enough, even if it's a Bamboo Stick, but against a Black Blade or WSS, it's an exception"
Zombie Ryuma was clearly portrayed to be as Strong as Thriller Bark Zoro (Pre-Shusui ofc), They matched each other in everything, whether it's Strength, Speed or Technique, and even though both their Swords were Great Grade, Zoro commented that if the Fight lasts longer, his Sword gonna be Broken
So once Zoro reaches Mihawk's Level in everything, whether it's Haki, Strength, Speed, Technique ... etc if Zoro didn't forge Black Blades by then, Mihawk will still have the upper hand due to not only having a Black Blade like Zombie Ryuma, but this time it's also Higher Grade & arguably Strongest Blade Ever
I don't think Oda is gonna repeat exact same Scenario as Zombie Ryuma Fight where Zoro ends the fight before his Swords are Broken, i believe against Mihawk, Zoro will indeed lose his Swords & that's where He realizes that just like Cutting Nothing = Cutting Everything, then Weakest Blade (A Shattered One) can become Strongest Blade, cuz it all depends on the Swordsman's Willpower
Ofc, i'm not saying any of this is convincing enough, but it's a Scenario that might end up True
(Just like Oda makes Luffy always Laugh & fight in Funny Way till He unlocked Gear 5 or Zoro always faces near death experience till he faced Death itself, it's clear that when Oda repeats some things, then He is preparing to showcase End Product of that concept, in this case, Zoro always talks about losing his Swords in his Fights, so in his Final Fight, He should indeed lose them)
We are speculating anyways so it does not matter if its convincing or not since we could be 100% off anyways lol. I do have a question for you tho. I realized that you might prefer that Zoro has to grow mid fight against Mihawk.
Don't you think its better if he faces him on equal term and its up to the one that surpasses the current limit that Mihawk and Shanks were stuck in?
I am curios i did see many who thinks the same as you do.
Don't you think its better if he faces him on equal term and its up to the one that surpasses the current limit that Mihawk and Shanks were stuck in?
I am curios i did see many who thinks the same as you do.
First of all, Zombie Ryuma who fought Zoro isn't same who fought Brook, He always hid his True Power
And the same applied on Zoro, cuz we know that his Peak is Asura which He rarely uses
And i'm pretty confident that Mihawk will be the same too, meaning He is hiding his True Max Power
It's a Quality that WSS have (All Three of them)
Even if you go check Ryuma One-Shot (Pre-OP), you will find that He was Out skilled by Cyranno at first but then Demonstrated his True Power which was way way above, so it's a Concept that Oda loves to give Greatest Swordsmen
Since Mihawk is the one who's gonna Power-Up when He fights Zoro (Similar to Zombie Ryuma)
Then that means Zoro will only be ready to face Mihawk, once He surpasses what is normally known about Mihawk (Which is Shanks Level).
And let's be honest, if Oda doesn't give Mihawk the upper hand, then it will look as if it's Mihawk who wants to Defeat Zoro, not Vice Versa
Secondly, Oda must differentiate between the Two in everything, they are Opposites (Knight vs Samurai, Clairvoyant vs Lost, Marine Hunter vs Pirate Hunter, Religious vs Atheist, West vs East, Double-Layered Eyed vs One-Eyed ... etc)
So Oda is gonna make the method in which they reached Level of WSS also Opposites, and since Zoro is all about Willpower which is Self-Made Power, then Mihawk must have achieved his Level thanks to a Power given to him (Hence The Religious Mihawk vs Atheist Zoro)
This is related to a Theory of mine, but i believe those with Double-Layered Eyes are Immortals who transfer into a New Body once their Host dies (Exactly like DFs). An example of that is Hakuba who is most probably an Ancient Super Strong Knight & Master Swordsman whose current Host is Cavendish (Hence why their Power Levels are different despite same Body & Sword, it's cuz Hakuba have more & ancient Experience), and if let's say Cavendish dies, then Hakuba will be reborn in a New Host (Similar to Attack On Titan if you are familiar with it)
When Host & Guest finally Sync & become One, that's when their Eyes turn Double-Layered (It's basically Awakening & those Ancient Guests are like Superior Devils who can directly enter a Human instead of relying on a Fruit & waiting to be consumed)
So Mihawk having those Eyes means He already Synced with Devil inside him gaining Experience of all it's previous Lives, making Mihawk someone who have Experience as if He fought for Hundreds of Years, that's why Defeating him is considered a Mythical Feat, cuz no one can Train or Fight as much as Mihawk in a single life
This is why his name is reference to Dracula and we all know who Dracula is, it also means both Devil & Dragon, He is associated with Cross References a lot (Which indicates Rebirth) & He was even Introduced on top of his Ship which is basically a Coffin, this is also why He speaks in Ancient Tongue (As confirmed by Sandman), it's also why He is extremely Bored & isn't interested in Fighting anymore despite being only in his 40s + Many other Hints ... etc (Just like Vegapunk was born Smart, Big Mom was born Strong, Mihawk was born Skilled, it's cuz there are Methods to preserve certain things for future generation, in Vega's Case they preserved Knowledge, in Big Mom's case they preserved Genes, but in Mihawk's case, they preserved Spirits which also carries on experience & consciousness)
Zoro is only one who can Surpass Mihawk despite only living once because of his Overwhelming Willpower & Spirit, that's why it manifests into a Trio Demon, it's Oda literally giving Zoro an answer to Mihawk's Extra Lives, this way Zoro can triple his Power without the need of living Three times
So in their Final Fight, Zoro must prove that his Self-Made Power, his Willpower can Surpass Mihawk's Power that was gained through years & years & years of stealing experience from others (Oda even hinted at it by making Copy Monkeys be Main Animals on Mihawk's Island, it's to Hint that Mihawk is just like them, a Product of Centuries of Wars & Fights (Mihawk is basically Ultimate Form of those Monkeys that can possibly ever exist)
Sorry for long post, but based on all of this, it means that Zoro cannot reach his Max Power before their Fight starts, cuz it will look as if it was Mihawk who is trying to prove a point, but instead it should be Zoro who proves that Willpower can surpass any Ability, hence why it must be Tested during their Duel, Zoro must reach a point where it looks like it's over & it's point of no return, no second chances (Basically a moment where Mihawk declares having his Clairvoyance can never be surpassed), that's when Zoro will do the impossible & re-forge his Swords using cheer will (Basically each Sword will represent One of his Trion Spirit), and Mihawk will instantly be shocked cuz despite his never-ending experience, He only forged a Single Black Blade, but Zoro forging Three is proof that He finally became Strongest Swordsman Ever Possible & Mihawk will get One-Shot similar to Mr. 1
And the same applied on Zoro, cuz we know that his Peak is Asura which He rarely uses
And i'm pretty confident that Mihawk will be the same too, meaning He is hiding his True Max Power
It's a Quality that WSS have (All Three of them)
Even if you go check Ryuma One-Shot (Pre-OP), you will find that He was Out skilled by Cyranno at first but then Demonstrated his True Power which was way way above, so it's a Concept that Oda loves to give Greatest Swordsmen
Since Mihawk is the one who's gonna Power-Up when He fights Zoro (Similar to Zombie Ryuma)
Then that means Zoro will only be ready to face Mihawk, once He surpasses what is normally known about Mihawk (Which is Shanks Level).
And let's be honest, if Oda doesn't give Mihawk the upper hand, then it will look as if it's Mihawk who wants to Defeat Zoro, not Vice Versa
Secondly, Oda must differentiate between the Two in everything, they are Opposites (Knight vs Samurai, Clairvoyant vs Lost, Marine Hunter vs Pirate Hunter, Religious vs Atheist, West vs East, Double-Layered Eyed vs One-Eyed ... etc)
So Oda is gonna make the method in which they reached Level of WSS also Opposites, and since Zoro is all about Willpower which is Self-Made Power, then Mihawk must have achieved his Level thanks to a Power given to him (Hence The Religious Mihawk vs Atheist Zoro)
This is related to a Theory of mine, but i believe those with Double-Layered Eyes are Immortals who transfer into a New Body once their Host dies (Exactly like DFs). An example of that is Hakuba who is most probably an Ancient Super Strong Knight & Master Swordsman whose current Host is Cavendish (Hence why their Power Levels are different despite same Body & Sword, it's cuz Hakuba have more & ancient Experience), and if let's say Cavendish dies, then Hakuba will be reborn in a New Host (Similar to Attack On Titan if you are familiar with it)
When Host & Guest finally Sync & become One, that's when their Eyes turn Double-Layered (It's basically Awakening & those Ancient Guests are like Superior Devils who can directly enter a Human instead of relying on a Fruit & waiting to be consumed)
So Mihawk having those Eyes means He already Synced with Devil inside him gaining Experience of all it's previous Lives, making Mihawk someone who have Experience as if He fought for Hundreds of Years, that's why Defeating him is considered a Mythical Feat, cuz no one can Train or Fight as much as Mihawk in a single life
This is why his name is reference to Dracula and we all know who Dracula is, it also means both Devil & Dragon, He is associated with Cross References a lot (Which indicates Rebirth) & He was even Introduced on top of his Ship which is basically a Coffin, this is also why He speaks in Ancient Tongue (As confirmed by Sandman), it's also why He is extremely Bored & isn't interested in Fighting anymore despite being only in his 40s + Many other Hints ... etc (Just like Vegapunk was born Smart, Big Mom was born Strong, Mihawk was born Skilled, it's cuz there are Methods to preserve certain things for future generation, in Vega's Case they preserved Knowledge, in Big Mom's case they preserved Genes, but in Mihawk's case, they preserved Spirits which also carries on experience & consciousness)
Zoro is only one who can Surpass Mihawk despite only living once because of his Overwhelming Willpower & Spirit, that's why it manifests into a Trio Demon, it's Oda literally giving Zoro an answer to Mihawk's Extra Lives, this way Zoro can triple his Power without the need of living Three times
So in their Final Fight, Zoro must prove that his Self-Made Power, his Willpower can Surpass Mihawk's Power that was gained through years & years & years of stealing experience from others (Oda even hinted at it by making Copy Monkeys be Main Animals on Mihawk's Island, it's to Hint that Mihawk is just like them, a Product of Centuries of Wars & Fights (Mihawk is basically Ultimate Form of those Monkeys that can possibly ever exist)
Sorry for long post, but based on all of this, it means that Zoro cannot reach his Max Power before their Fight starts, cuz it will look as if it was Mihawk who is trying to prove a point, but instead it should be Zoro who proves that Willpower can surpass any Ability, hence why it must be Tested during their Duel, Zoro must reach a point where it looks like it's over & it's point of no return, no second chances (Basically a moment where Mihawk declares having his Clairvoyance can never be surpassed), that's when Zoro will do the impossible & re-forge his Swords using cheer will (Basically each Sword will represent One of his Trion Spirit), and Mihawk will instantly be shocked cuz despite his never-ending experience, He only forged a Single Black Blade, but Zoro forging Three is proof that He finally became Strongest Swordsman Ever Possible & Mihawk will get One-Shot similar to Mr. 1
Great scenario but that can happen in their fight as equals and only when Zoro finally reaches something that seemed impossible is when he wins. And technically fighting him on equal terms does not mean that Zoro is max power because he is on the level that is currently possible to reach. So your whole scenario can still apply in an equal type of fight and only the winner is decided when they surpasses the known limit.
Yes, my scenario actually doesn't conflict with this idea.
That's why i said it's gonna be similar to Zombie Ryuma Fight, They will be equal for entire Fight
In Ryuma Fight, Zoro did say that his Swords are at risk of getting Broken but He ended the fight before that happens
But in Mihawk Fight to make it stand out & not be just another Ryuma Fight with bigger destruction, He will make the Swords do get broken
So Totally Equal Fight for 99% of Time ---> Zoro's Swords Break ---> Zoro discovers Final Swords Lesson ---> Zoro One-Shots Mihawk
However it's as you said, just Speculation, i'm fine with any Scenario really
Only thing i trust will happen is Explanation of Mihawk's True Power & Zoro forging Black Blades
I've always wondered though if Black Blades aren't actually Strongest Swords possible & Zoro will forge a Red-Sword to make him stand out from any Swordsman ever
That's why i said it's gonna be similar to Zombie Ryuma Fight, They will be equal for entire Fight
In Ryuma Fight, Zoro did say that his Swords are at risk of getting Broken but He ended the fight before that happens
But in Mihawk Fight to make it stand out & not be just another Ryuma Fight with bigger destruction, He will make the Swords do get broken
So Totally Equal Fight for 99% of Time ---> Zoro's Swords Break ---> Zoro discovers Final Swords Lesson ---> Zoro One-Shots Mihawk
However it's as you said, just Speculation, i'm fine with any Scenario really
Only thing i trust will happen is Explanation of Mihawk's True Power & Zoro forging Black Blades
I've always wondered though if Black Blades aren't actually Strongest Swords possible & Zoro will forge a Red-Sword to make him stand out from any Swordsman ever
@Salah WG but didn't Mihawk say that every nick on your blade is shameful, hence it has to become a black blade? Also, Sukiyaki said that Enma has yet to become a black blade, which would suggest him saying "Enma has to be broken and then reforged by great will, Haki and bond.
There is also the possibility of Aramaki having a black blade, which would suggest he is one of those with immense will, Haki and bond to his blade.
There is also the possibility of Aramaki having a black blade, which would suggest he is one of those with immense will, Haki and bond to his blade.
Indeed, i do believe They are related
There is also this Illustration from Oda where Luffy apparently imagines Zoro with a Red-Blade
[automerge]1683114783[/automerge]
True but Mihawk is still Zoro's Enemy, what He says doesn't necessarily need to be applied on Zoro at all times.
For example, Mihawk doesn't have any Scars, his Style, the way He talks, His calm & reserved persona, his sharp senses, being Handsome (Oda revealed that if He was a Female, He would brag about his Beauty similar to Hancock) ... etc
So it's clear that Mihawk is portrayed as this Perfect Knight, while Zoro is the guy who is Dumb, gets Lost all the time, keeps pushing his body, have many Scars, He literally lost 2000 times against Kuina & He did get his Swords broken against Mihawk, He even lost another one in Enies Lobby
Imo Zoro must not live like Mihawk, He must follow different principles & everything about him must represent that it was his hardwork, opposite to Mihawk who looks like God's Gifted Knight. So Oda might make Zoro lose his Swords & then Re-Forge them which is a sign of wisdom & learning from mistakes that Mihawk wouldn't get until He is defeated (Possibly his Final Line will be about this point)
As for Sukiyaki, i don't think anyone knows how Black Blades are forged except Mihawk/Ryuma.
And i don't wanna comment on Ryokugyu until i see more of that Sword, i don't wanna assume anything or build Speculations/Theories based on something we haven't confirmed yet (Kizaru have Light Sword, Aokiji have Ice Sword, Fuji have Gravity Sword so it's possible that Ryo's Blade is actually a Weapon created from a very strong tree & it's Black or some other Dark Color)
There is also this Illustration from Oda where Luffy apparently imagines Zoro with a Red-Blade
True but Mihawk is still Zoro's Enemy, what He says doesn't necessarily need to be applied on Zoro at all times.
For example, Mihawk doesn't have any Scars, his Style, the way He talks, His calm & reserved persona, his sharp senses, being Handsome (Oda revealed that if He was a Female, He would brag about his Beauty similar to Hancock) ... etc
So it's clear that Mihawk is portrayed as this Perfect Knight, while Zoro is the guy who is Dumb, gets Lost all the time, keeps pushing his body, have many Scars, He literally lost 2000 times against Kuina & He did get his Swords broken against Mihawk, He even lost another one in Enies Lobby
Imo Zoro must not live like Mihawk, He must follow different principles & everything about him must represent that it was his hardwork, opposite to Mihawk who looks like God's Gifted Knight. So Oda might make Zoro lose his Swords & then Re-Forge them which is a sign of wisdom & learning from mistakes that Mihawk wouldn't get until He is defeated (Possibly his Final Line will be about this point)
As for Sukiyaki, i don't think anyone knows how Black Blades are forged except Mihawk/Ryuma.
And i don't wanna comment on Ryokugyu until i see more of that Sword, i don't wanna assume anything or build Speculations/Theories based on something we haven't confirmed yet (Kizaru have Light Sword, Aokiji have Ice Sword, Fuji have Gravity Sword so it's possible that Ryo's Blade is actually a Weapon created from a very strong tree & it's Black or some other Dark Color)
Last edited:
S
If Aramaki possesses a black blade, he will end up with the hype of black blades, especially after he arrives in Wano admitting inferiority and fearing Kaidou and is shamed by Shanks. Does Aramaki not have a better Haki than Roger, Oden, or Shanks, and yet he forged a black blade? The fact that Aramaki hypothetically possesses a black blade does not necessarily mean that he is better than Oden or Shanks in swordsmanship.
The name Aramaki was completely unknown in the world of One Piece, and Mihawk never considered him a rival. The mihawk who is the best swordsman in the world is waiting for someone who surpasses Shanks in swordsmanship, which means that after Mihawk, we have Shanks and not Aramaki, even though Aramaki has a black blade? Shanks without a black blade is superior to Aramaki, who hypothetically has a black blade. What I'm saying is not a lie.
The name Aramaki was completely unknown in the world of One Piece, and Mihawk never considered him a rival. The mihawk who is the best swordsman in the world is waiting for someone who surpasses Shanks in swordsmanship, which means that after Mihawk, we have Shanks and not Aramaki, even though Aramaki has a black blade? Shanks without a black blade is superior to Aramaki, who hypothetically has a black blade. What I'm saying is not a lie.
Last edited by a moderator:
