Powers & Abilities How Shanks Beat Loki

CoC: Color of Clowns

The Emperor Wears Hoes as Meat Shields
#1


Even believing that Shanks' Sword Gryphon has eaten the Mythical Gryphon Zoan, I'm not sure Shanks beat Loki in a 1v1.

Shanks isn't Luffy, Luffy admires Shanks. Shanks has no problem playing dirty to win. Shanks COULD beat Loki, but, the damage would be too severe, so, Shanks went the easier route.

I think Loki has two big weaknesses. One of them is known, the other is speculative.

Known Weakness: Seastone. This is Loki's largest weakness, by far, due to Loki's size; lot of area to hit. At the same time, like with the Salt Usopp shot in to Oars mouth in Thriller Bark, a few nails aren't going to be enough: if you want to stop Loki's power, not just his Fruit, you need a large amount of Seastone. Based on what we've seen with his "fight" vs Gunko, Loki has Future Sight. So, the biggest weakness Loki would have, is people who can counter-act his Future Sight, and snipe him with Seastone. More on this in a minute.

Speculative Weakness: Ragnir. I think Ragnir is totally loyal to Loki, since Ragnir was willing to strike Elbaph's Adam Tree, despite knowing what lightning hitting that tree would cause. Maybe there's another skill Loki has that made Ragnir comfortable, but, Ragnir's willingness to set Elbaph on fire for Loki makes me believe Ragnir is loyal to the one who eats Ragnir/is worthy. Ragnir won't betray Loki, BUT, Ragnir is an adorable woodland creature. Have you ever seen, how mindless Squirrels can be when they're zoned in on a nut?

So, this is how I think things went down.

I believe Shanks stopped Loki from attacking the Holy Land in a suicide mission, in Harald's honor/memory. So, I think Shanks fought Loki in one of 5 locations:

1. An island they agreed to duel on due to a challenge between one of them.
2. Elbaph itself (if this did happen, we will likely see scars of this battle)
3. Outside the Red Line (possible since it would allow Shanks to target Loki where he's weak, near water)
4. On top of the Red Line itself
5. In Shanks' territory after Loki invaded it (this I doubt, since Loki's focus seems to be 1000% on destroying the World Government, not gaining territory/allies. Loki is too prideful to want anyone but Elbaph warriors serving under him, which is why he's destined to lead the Galleira as Captain)

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Haki/Supreme_King_Haki#Observation_Killing

1. Shanks Cancels Loki's Future Sight.

Shanks is the first character introduced with this, and Loki is the 1st Top Tier outside of Luffy who has been shown using Future Sight. This makes me believe Shanks' Observation Cancelling was used here, as it would affect Loki badly, if he was fighting all of the Red Haired Pirates at once.

2. Lucky Roux Lures Ragnir Away With Food.

Loki has been shown to be a Glutton, and I imagine Ragnir, after being trapped in a storeroom for centuries, appreciates eating food. It's possible Ragnir just gets hit by Seastone, as I'm not sure who will be the the "Sniper" Here. At the least, I think Roux will distract Ragnir with food, as Chef's in One Piece have constantly been shown as using food to achieve victory, like Streussen and Sanji. Obviously, Sanji still needs to surpass Streussen, but that's another thread.

I wonder what Ragnir likes to eat? We know from Spandam's Elephant Funkfreed's favorite food being bananas (https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Funkfreed#cite_note-15), that weapons that eat Zoans enjoy food, though Ragnir's survival for centuries without any known food source makes me believe that Zoan Weapons don't NEED to eat, they just enjoy it.

Also possible Roux lures in Ragnir with food, then cuffs him with Seastone, or grabs him and knocks him into the sea for asset denial. Either way, big focus here is getting Ragnir out of Loki's hands as fast as possible.

3. Yasopp and Beckman Blast Loki with Seastone.

Loki is a giant target, and, as fast and strong as he is (and he could be faster in Zoan forms), he is NOT avoiding Seastone fire from Yasopp and Beckmann, especially Yasopp, who, based off of Usopp's Observation Haki, is likely an Observation Top Tier. Beckman's firepower has been showcased via Kidd, and I would NOT want to get shot by this man. Loki isn't avoiding them both firing Seastone at once. As stated before, Loki will likely be able to resist smaller amounts of Seastone, while loosing the ability to use his Fruit. We know this, as even with one leg chained to the Adam Tree in Elbaph, and while half-dead, Loki was able to do this with Ragnir:



It will take a sizeable amount of Seastone Bullets to take Loki down.



Keep in mind I believe Gryphon is a Sword that ate the Gyphon Mythical Zoan, and can detach like Cerberus detached from Shamrock's Sword. Shamrock RETAINED HIS SWORD during this, meaning that if Gyphon ate this Mythical Zoan, Shanks could fight with the blade and the Zoan form at the same time.

In this scenario, excluding other Red Haired Pirates (I think Shanks brought his top Officers to the fight), we would have:

Shanks and Gryphon attacking Loki directly, while Beckman and Yasopp rain down Seastone fire, and Shanks Cancels Loki's Future Sight, is a legit loss for Loki, that makes everyone involved not take any real Ls. Shanks pulled up to Marineford and clashed evenly with Akainu, we've already seen his strength.

If Shanks/Loki fought in a legit 1v1, they'd destroy everything around them and someone is ending up like Aokiji at the end of it.

Since Shanks loved Harald and most likely is fond of Loki as a result (another Buggy situation, furthering my belief Loki will ally with Cross Guild and Buggy, Rocks' other son), Shanks didn't want Loki to kill himself attacking Imu, either of them to injure each other seriously, nor for their battle to destroy wherever they fought.

So?

Shanks outsmarted Loki, and Loki views him as a Coward for this.

Shanks and Loki are both legit top tiers, and should be treated as such. But, when it's revealed Shanks took this route, rather than do a 1v1, people are going to call him out. Still, once again, Shanks' goal here was never defeating Loki: it was keeping his friend Harald's son from dying a pointless death trying to get revenge against the monsters who killed Shanks' Mother and killed Loki's Father.

Gunko and Shamrock's defeat of Loki while he is gimped by Seastone foreshadows the fight with Shanks.
 

Uncle Van

Monké Don't Do Taxes
#3
Two problems:

1) It was stated multiple times that Shanks stopped Loki. There's was no mention or hint of Shanks receiving help with what we got.

2) The entire reason Loki is getting freed is because Gaban is convinced that Luffy has the power to stop Loki like Shanks did

Shanks didn't 1v1 Loki; Shanks received help and/or tricked Loki
 
#4
Two problems:

1) It was stated multiple times that Shanks stopped Loki. There's was no mention or hint of Shanks receiving help with what we got.

2) The entire reason Loki is getting freed is because Gaban is convinced that Luffy has the power to stop Loki like Shanks did



Shanks didn't 1v1 Loki; Shanks received help and/or tricked Loki
That second point doesn't make much sense as Loki's currently being portrayed as at least slightly superior to current Luffy if we lowball it
 

Uncle Van

Monké Don't Do Taxes
#10
That second point doesn't make much sense as Loki's currently being portrayed as at least slightly superior to current Luffy if we lowball it
I doubt that. Loki was never portrayed superior, and the whole point of him being free is because Luffy can stop him. It was emphasized twice.

The flashback got everybody really hyped, but I haven't been operated on hype in like 10 years lol. Would it be nice for Loki to be stronger? Sure, but I got no real reason to believe that.
 

CoC: Color of Clowns

The Emperor Wears Hoes as Meat Shields
#11
Shanks uses Observation Canceling CoC to take out Loki's Future Sight

Shanks' Sword Gryphon ate the Gryphon Mythical Zoan and aids Shanks

Lucky Roux distracts Ragnir with food (maybe poison)

Yasopp and Beckmen hit Loki with Seastone Bullets until he's down.

Loki's two biggest weaknesses are:
1. Like Enma, Ragnir has a mind of his own, but, in this case, dude can actually run off
2. Loki's size makes him vulnerable to Seastone artillery (but it takes a lot of Seastone bullets to take him down, since he was still able to swing Ragnir while half-dead and with his foot still in Seastone chains).
 
#12
I doubt that. Loki was never portrayed superior, and the whole point of him being free is because Luffy can stop him. It was emphasized twice.

The flashback got everybody really hyped, but I haven't been operated on hype in like 10 years lol. Would it be nice for Loki to be stronger? Sure, but I got no real reason to believe that.
I'm not going off hype, it's just the fact that Harald trusted Loki with Ragnir and the fruit to be able to kill him despite the Imu buff, which is backed up by Loki later on beating him up after he got the fruit and forcing him to revert to his normal state.
 
#13
I doubt that. Loki was never portrayed superior, and the whole point of him being free is because Luffy can stop him. It was emphasized twice.

The flashback got everybody really hyped, but I haven't been operated on hype in like 10 years lol. Would it be nice for Loki to be stronger? Sure, but I got no real reason to believe that.
schrodingers loki, hes either stronger or weaker than luffy and either is just as believable and its unknowable until they fight

even if hes stronger he will be a katakuri stepstool for luffy tho
 
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CoC: Color of Clowns

The Emperor Wears Hoes as Meat Shields
#14
Two problems:

1) It was stated multiple times that Shanks stopped Loki. There's was no mention or hint of Shanks receiving help with what we got.

2) The entire reason Loki is getting freed is because Gaban is convinced that Luffy has the power to stop Loki like Shanks did



Shanks didn't 1v1 Loki; Shanks received help and/or tricked Loki
1) Yes, that is what has been stated, but Loki's entire character narrative is centered around everyone lying about him. We were told he's an evil arsonist, when he burnt down the village bragging about murdering his mother. Until we see Shanks defeat Loki, I don't full buy the story.

Could Shanks have beaten Loki in a 1v1? It's possible, but, since Loki's character is so focused on people lying about him, and him lying about himself, I need to see the actual fight.

I heavily distrust the narratives we are given as speculation, after Kaido's "Lifelong Debt" to Big Mom ended up being Kaido smashing her face in and then trolling her while eating the Seiryu Fruit.

2) This can actually support my argument depending on how you view it.

If Gyaban is saying Luffy can stop Loki, he's smoking crack. But, keep in mind Gyaban's views on Zoro/the other Straw Hats:



If Gyaban is saying the STRAW HAT PIRATES, as in Luffy's Crew, can take down Loki, then he's 1000% correct. Gyaban knows Loki is stronger that Luffy, but after seeing Zoro and Luffy in action, realized they can handle Loki as a Crew.
That second point doesn't make much sense as Loki's currently being portrayed as at least slightly superior to current Luffy if we lowball it
Yeah, I think Gyaban might have been talking about the "Power to make allies" that Mihawk was describing in Marineford, too.

Base Loki is clearly superior to Base Luffy, and we have no reason to believe Loki's Zoan form has the time limitations Gear 4 and 5 have. Base Loki with Ragnir destroyed Harald's body in a single shot, and broke through whatever Imu's Curse is. I think Gear 5 Luffy still beats Loki in direct clashes, especially since Loki is lightning focused, but, if Ragnir is Warcury level tough, Luffy would have to avoid Ragnir, and ain't no way one Gear 5 usage is taking down Loki.

Luffy can't stop Loki in a fight, BUT, this is a Power of Friendship series.

If Imu has to retreat (which I think he will due to Teach fucking up Marijoa, and stealing York + the Giant Straw Hat + Xebec's Sword), I can see Imu Domi Reversi'ing Loki by hurting Hajrudin.

The entire Straw Hats against Domi Reversi Loki would be a nice Oars callback, IMO.

I could also see Loki's Future Sight being how Luffy develops his Observation Cancelling CoC.
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schrodingers loki, hes either stronger or weaker than luffy and either is just as believable and its unknowable until they fight

even if hes stronger he will be a katakuri stepstool for luffy tho
Great point with Katakuri, Loki feels like some mix of Law + Kat to me.

:kata:

I'm hoping we see Loki work with Teach and Luffy in the future. Waiting for him to Captain the Galleira.
 

Uncle Van

Monké Don't Do Taxes
#15
I'm not going off hype, it's just the fact that Harald trusted Loki with Ragnir and the fruit to be able to kill him despite the Imu buff, which is backed up by Loki later on beating him up after he got the fruit and forcing him to revert to his normal state.
Harald in that state was getting "killed" by fodder and easily handled by Gaban and Shanks. He clearly wasn't all there. Loki needed Ragnir and the DR to kill Harald permanently. It was purely a match up thing.

And again, Loki is only walking free because Luffy is seemingly capable of stopping him. It also doesn't help that Loki or Gaban are viewed as almost equally valuable assets against the Holy Knights.
 
#16
Harald in that state was getting "killed" by fodder and easily handled by Gaban and Shanks. He clearly wasn't all there. Loki needed Ragnir and the DR to kill Harald permanently. It was purely a match up thing.
Gaban and Shanks gassed out before they could take him down, which is why they were betting on Loki coming back and putting Harald down for good.
This is like comparing Marco getting shot by Queen to Garp punching Marco and stunning him for a second. People harming Harald doesn't really matter if they're not straight up besting him in combat and removing the possession like Loki did
 

Uncle Van

Monké Don't Do Taxes
#18
Gaban and Shanks gassed out before they could take him down, which is why they were betting on Loki coming back and putting Harald down for good.
This is like comparing Marco getting shot by Queen to Garp punching Marco and stunning him for a second. People harming Harald doesn't really matter if they're not straight up besting him in combat and removing the possession like Loki did
Loki was gassed out and beaten up too. He literally had the same fight execution as them. Gaban and Shanks said that their only hope to save Harald was Loki, and Loki only managed to win because Harald regained his senses and let himself be killed.

And Loki didnt remove the possession. He didn't do anything special. Harald just came back to his senses after a lengthy fight.
 
#19
Harald in that state was getting "killed" by fodder and easily handled by Gaban and Shanks.
That's why hundred of guards had to throw away their life trying to stop Harald from chasing Loki while Shanks and Gaban were nowhere to be seen after stating they couldn't deal with Harald's conqueror?
Immortals getting "killed" by fodders is irrelevant, Gunko got "killed" by Usopp lmfao.
You're grasping at straw
 
#20
Loki was gassed out and beaten up too. He literally had the same fight execution as them. Gaban and Shanks said that their only hope to save Harald was Loki, and Loki only managed to win because Harald regained his senses and let himself be killed.

And Loki didnt remove the possession. He didn't do anything special. Harald just came back to his senses after a lengthy fight.
Bro Loki had to eat the fruit for a reason lol
The last panel of their fight we see is Loki in his Zoan form gripping Harald's head, and right after that, Harald immediately snaps back to reality and lets Loki kill him.
It's either Loki undid the possession with Haki, or undid it with the fruit's hax.
 
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