Character Discussion I finally understand Garp

[Sir Yasheen]

.

yeah there no way they just murdered innocent prengnant women like this, very likely they found anyone suspicious enough to be associated with Roger

Let’s not try to rose color Sengoku. Yeah he’s a better dude than most marines but he’s also the one who didn’t need proof of Oharas “evil deeds” to massacre an entire island and called for the murder of a group that could include anyone on that island. And actively berated a subordinate who sought said proof and insurance.

Sengoku was not a good man. He was always a pragmatic man which means sacrifice were a necessity. He even actively lied to the general public and hid information from them in order to not have them “lose faith” in the marines meaning he was well aware that what he was doing was wrong and inhumane.

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

Let’s not try to rose color Sengoku. Yeah he’s a better dude than most marines but he’s also the one who didn’t need proof of Oharas “evil deeds” to massacre an entire island and called for the murder of a group that could include anyone on that island. And actively berated a subordinate who sought said proof and insurance.

His blame was buying the WG propaganda about scholars wanting to awaken ancient weapons, but even then the killing of civilians was Akainu own doing.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

His blame was buying the WG propaganda about scholars wanting to awaken ancient weapons, but even then the killing of civilians was Akainu own doing.

His blame was that he actively refused to find evidence counter to it. Sengoku refused to even question the WG and its orders because to him all they said was justice despite everything that he knew. Also the Buster Call was literally a scorched earth approach in the first place where they were planning on massacring an entire island.

Sengoku was not a good man. He was a good soldier.

 

[Owl Ki]

For people saying "Garp is a dumbass for not doing x" yeah, that's Garp's entire problem. He is an unimaginative dumbass. He could never pull off Fujitora level moves because he is too dumb to think of them.

If he can't punch a problem, he's out of ideas.

 

[U c 4 up da idly]

Let’s not try to rose color Sengoku. Yeah he’s a better dude than most marines but he’s also the one who didn’t need proof of Oharas “evil deeds” to massacre an entire island and called for the murder of a group that could include anyone on that island. And actively berated a subordinate who sought said proof and insurance.

Sengoku was not a good man. He was always a pragmatic man which means sacrifice were a necessity. He even actively lied to the general public and hid information from them in order to not have them “lose faith” in the marines meaning he was well aware that what he was doing was wrong and inhumane.

No, it was made a point that proof had to obtained in order for the buster call to take place and before that warning was given to the civilians. Killing the entire island was never the goal of it.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

What if Zoro did [something he would never do]

So you want to say that nothing Luffy did in that whiskey peak scene says anything about his character

and you’re saying that there is literally nothing to say about Luffy’s character in this regard at all.

amazing stuff

I said we never witnessed a pregnant woman get murdered, which is true.
Rouge actually had a relationship with Roger,

You mean characters saying something happened and the another character reacting as though the thing that’s being said happened is not proof for you, it has to happen on screen or it didn’t happen?

Is this true of everything is the story? Did Akainu and Kuzan actually fight? I mean they talk about fighting and their are tangible signs that they did fight, but it didn’t happen on screen, so your criteria isn’t met right? You can just as easily say this didn’t actually happen? Right?

Garp never changed who he was though?

Oh so Garp literally says theres no justice on the island, in fact he says Justice has been flipped upside down. And this include the hundreds of marines who came to God valley to invert this justice that Garp is talking about. And yet Garp’s mission remains “protect the marines”

for Garp to not be making any compromises here, you would have to say that there was nothing to compromise at all. Garp is saying Justice has been inverted, but he DOESNT CARE. You’re saying that Garp doesn’t actually care about Justice, is that it?

Also idk why you act like Luffy is some kind of paragon of morality when he was never show to have any issue with his role in the release of thousands of violent criminals for Ace's sake.

I’m not talking about Luffy’s morality. I’m talking about his respect of his crew. You’re saying Luffy sees his crew the way Garp sees the marines. No, he doesn’t. Luffy respects his crew way more than Garp respects the marines. Garp treats the marines paternalistically. Like he’s their daddy. That’s why he can ignore when they do evil shit, coz he sees them like children needing correction and protection. Luffy sees his crew as equals. Hence why he can feel a transgression by his crew as that much of a betrayal to himself.

(Also fyi, Impel down should completely be destroyed. It is a literal Rape Torture and Murder dungeon. Yes, I said rape, there is a guard, Sadie whose entire gimmick is sexually assaulting the prisoners. Impel down is an affront to humanity and justice and all morality. It should be complete destroyed and there is absolutely nothing wrong with Luffy freeing however many people from a RAPE TORTURE AND MURDER HORROR SHOW. Whatever you think of how evil those people are, there is a reason the Geneva convention doesn’t condone any of this shit to PoWs no matter what their offense)

Also most marines

Where are you getting this random statistical statement that “most marines” are good? From where?

even Dragon doesn’t say this even though he says the marines aren’t his enemy. He understands that the marines need complete reform and that’s it. He’s never said they are “mostly good” ever.

Garp may feel loyal to the marines but he doesn’t respect them as much. That’s the big difference with Luffy.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

No, it was made a point that proof had to obtained in order for the buster call to take place and before that warning was given to the civilians. Killing the entire island was never the goal of it.

Brother literally the one thing Saul asked for was proof that Ohara was committing the crimes they were accused of.

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

So you want to say that nothing Luffy did in that whiskey peak scene says anything about his character

and you’re saying that there is literally nothing to say about Luffy’s character in this regard at all.

amazing stuff

What am I supposed to say when you're proposing something that would never happen to prove your point?

You mean characters saying something happened and the another character reacting as though the thing that’s being said happened is not proof for you, it has to happen on screen or it didn’t happen?

Is this true of everything is the story? Did Akainu and Kuzan actually fight? I mean they talk about fighting and their are tangible signs that they did fight, but it didn’t happen on screen, so your criteria isn’t met right? You can just as easily say this didn’t actually happen? Right?

Where did a character state the murders of random pregnant women happened? Even that random guy said to inspect first,at not point it was stated "kill every pregnant woman". You decided by yourself that they found hundred of pregnant women and killed them despite having no ties to Roger.

Oh so Garp literally says theres no justice on the island, in fact he says Justice has been flipped upside down. And this include the hundreds of marines who came to God valley to invert this justice that Garp is talking about. And yet Garp’s mission remains “protect the marines”

for Garp to not be making any compromises here, you would have to say that there was nothing to compromise at all. Garp is saying Justice has been inverted, but he DOESNT CARE. You’re saying that Garp doesn’t actually care about Justice, is that it?

You forgot something : Garp doesn't know the full event of God Valley. People accused him of knowing about the hunting game before the flashback and we now know for sure that he didn't. He knows there was a massacre and he knows there's some giant black monster related to celestial dragon been attacking them. From his point of view this was done by the CDs.

I’m not talking about Luffy’s morality. I’m talking about his respect of his crew. You’re saying Luffy sees his crew the way Garp sees the marines. No, he doesn’t. Luffy respects his crew way more than Garp respects the marines. Garp treats the marines paternalistically. Like he’s their daddy. That’s why he can ignore when they do evil shit, coz he sees them like children needing correction and protection. Luffy sees his crew as equals. Hence why he can feel a transgression by his crew as that much of a betrayal to himself.

I didn't say any of this, Garp factually cannot have the same relationship with thousands hundreds people the same way Luffy does with 10 people, that's ludicrous.

(Also fyi, Impel down should completely be destroyed. It is a literal Rape Torture and Murder dungeon. Yes, I said rape, there is a guard, Sadie whose entire gimmick is sexually assaulting the prisoners. Impel down is an affront to humanity and justice and all morality. It should be complete destroyed and there is absolutely nothing wrong with Luffy freeing however many people from a RAPE TORTURE AND MURDER HORROR SHOW. Whatever you think of how evil those people are, there is a reason the Geneva convention doesn’t condone any of this shit to PoWs no matter what their offense)

Lol okay

Where are you getting this random statistical statement that “most marines” are good? From where?

even Dragon doesn’t say this even though he says the marines aren’t his enemy. He understands that the marines need complete reform and that’s it. He’s never said they are “mostly good” ever.

From this very flashback

Let me guess, Harald who has been sailing all around the wold and going on diplomacy trips for decaces doesn't know what he's talking about?

Garp may feel loyal to the marines but he doesn’t respect them as much. That’s the big difference with Luffy.

Okay? My point is that both are driven by their loyalty, you can argue that Luffy is a better picking the people he's loyal to, but that's another issue.

Also I don't know if you see the marines and CDs as the same entity, but Garp and (other characters in the story) treat both as distinct organizations., maybe that sounds ridiculous to you but that's more of an Oda's issue.

 

[SakazOuki]

On the surface, sure, the idea of Garp being this brutish marine with a kind soul, fighting as a hero, is okay.
Dumb, Grandpa, Careless, Monkey D., Roger bromance
Those are keywords that describe his character
Cunning, confident, relentlessness, absolute justice, destroying piracy, executing outlaws, leading the navy
Those and many more describe a character like Akainu, there is more substance and value to what he does as a character contrary to Luffy’s lovely grandpa
This applies to all other Admirals including Sengoku

 

[Shiroyru]

On the surface, sure, the idea of Garp being this brutish marine with a kind soul, fighting as a hero, is okay.
Dumb, Grandpa, Careless, Monkey D., Roger bromance
Those are keywords that describe his character
Cunning, confident, relentlessness, absolute justice, destroying piracy, executing outlaws, leading the navy
Those and many more describe a character like Akainu, there is more substance and value to what he does as a character contrary to Luffy’s lovely grandpa
This applies to all other Admirals including Sengoku

Even Kong?

 

[SakazOuki]

Even Kong?

Lol probably

 

[Natalija]

I'd say one major potential difference between Garp and Dragon is that Dragon witnessed first hand the atrocities of the WG as a fresh recruit, he likely became disillusioned with the organization before he could form strong bonds and feel tied to them.
Garp might only have came in direct contact with the celestial dragons years after joining, as evil as the WG is, not every single island is the target of a genocide game or practice slavery. By the point Garp became aware of that it's possible he already saw the marines as his family.

Yes, that's true, Dragon as a new Marine got disillusioned pretty quickly with a slap to his face, and perhaps Garp had a broader view of how the world works, but that also means he had to turn a blind eye to certain things. Dragon's bravery is in the fact that he said no to being obedient over this issue. Which unironically makes him a bad marine.