Powers & Abilities If King does not have coc then Katakuri will have greater role in the story.
- Thread starter Venom
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I don't think Izo disarming King makes him look bad. It's just people cherry-picking for the sake of downplaying. They disarmed Kaido too. Kaido didn't become a second-rate pirate after getting disarmed by the scabbards. Letting Momo go was definitely bad, but it's not worse than Katakuri failing to secure Carmel's photograph despite FS which is the whole point of my argument. I agree Marco and Drake's situations are definitely bad.
I don't see why King should oppose the Ice Oni move by Queen. It was working in their favor until Chopper made a cure. Even Queen didn't expect Ice Oni situation to turn against them.
I don't see why King should oppose the Ice Oni move by Queen. It was working in their favor until Chopper made a cure. Even Queen didn't expect Ice Oni situation to turn against them.
But Katakuri didn't fail at the Tea Party. They squashed the Big Mom assassination in a matter of seconds, and forced the would be attackers to flee. And the only reason why they all weren't caught and executed on the spot, is because of the Tamate Box. That was due to an external factor beyond their control.
You also have to take into consideration, that Katakuri couldn't fully lead the charge during the Tea Party, because Big Mom was there, and she told him to stand down and know his place. So even though they did fail at capturing the enemy during the Tea Party, that falls on Big Mom and her ego (And the Tamate Box), not Katakuri.
The final thing, is if Big Mom were to fall, pretty much all of her children and crew members are on board with Katakuri taking up the mantle as the next leader of Tottoland except Perospero.
If Kaido were to fall, it would essentially fall into an all out brawl for supremacy amongst his crew, and the entire crew would implode upon itself. The Beast Pirates are a bunch of mean heads, and aren't looking for whose the most competent to lead them, only whose the strongest, and only Kaido is powerful enough to keep all of those guys in line.
He'd be smart enough to figure out the cause and go after that plot device. This last chapter, it wasn't even King who figured out it was because of Tama that their crew members were switching sides, it was some random fodder that did.
You also have to take into consideration, that Katakuri couldn't fully lead the charge during the Tea Party, because Big Mom was there, and she told him to stand down and know his place. So even though they did fail at capturing the enemy during the Tea Party, that falls on Big Mom and her ego (And the Tamate Box), not Katakuri.
The final thing, is if Big Mom were to fall, pretty much all of her children and crew members are on board with Katakuri taking up the mantle as the next leader of Tottoland except Perospero.
If Kaido were to fall, it would essentially fall into an all out brawl for supremacy amongst his crew, and the entire crew would implode upon itself. The Beast Pirates are a bunch of mean heads, and aren't looking for whose the most competent to lead them, only whose the strongest, and only Kaido is powerful enough to keep all of those guys in line.
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He'd be smart enough to figure out the cause and go after that plot device. This last chapter, it wasn't even King who figured out it was because of Tama that their crew members were switching sides, it was some random fodder that did.
Kaido was ganged by 7 or 8 Scabbards, King was blitzed by one. That obviously doesn't mean Izo>King since disarming somebody is a really circumstancial scenario, but that was the moment he needed to prove his 1st Commander status imo.
Doesn't make him a second-rate pirate, but doesn't make him look good for sure.
Fact is that Kata was targeted/slowed down by Bege, Pedro, Jimbe and Luffy. He still menaged to bypass all them and stop Luffy, but didn't take into account his stretching ability.
On the other hand, King's problems were Shinobu and Sanji... a less troublesome team, ain't it? The clash also happened on air, where King is supposed to have the upper hand but Sanji still menaged to secure Momonosuke.
This is the difference I'm talking about.
He wasn't supposed to oppose, but to do something at least.
Live Floor was on havoc cause of the virus, this means that Queen had the ground under control. King could have reached the top of the dome or at least go on the 5th floor to prevent enemies from reaching the top. The tower was only guarded by Who's Who and Black Maria, if King thought that they were enough to stop Kidd, Killer, Luffy, Jimbe and Sanji who were descending the tower... well that's a nail in the coffin of his efficiency...
You could say that his job was to guard the hole above the Live Floor, but even then he failed...
Jack was by far the most efficent: decimated a whole portion of the opposing army preventing a gang up on Kaido, failed only when facing an overwhelming force like the 2 Sulong Dukes combined (he was exhausted from the previous battle), recovered and ran back into the tower defeating Minks and allies left and right. Is currently fighting Inuarashi.
Queen comes next imo since he controlled the whole mass of the Live Floor for something like 30+ chapters at this point, started by giving the order to chase Luffy, Kidd, Zoro and Killer, then took care of deceiving Drake (but also lost him). He spreaded a lethal virus in all the Live Floor, but fucked up when gave the the antibody to Apoo. Was chocked by Marco just like King. At least was keeping the control on the mass, but King couldn't hold Marco still and resulted in being ambushed a couple of times during his job. He fucked up again by losing 30 minutes playing with Chopper and is now fighting Sanji.
Even Queen, who fucked up a generous number of times, has shown more efficiency than King up to this point.
The only way he can save the face is by pulling down feats upon feats like a slot machine asap
Doesn't make him a second-rate pirate, but doesn't make him look good for sure.
Fact is that Kata was targeted/slowed down by Bege, Pedro, Jimbe and Luffy. He still menaged to bypass all them and stop Luffy, but didn't take into account his stretching ability.
On the other hand, King's problems were Shinobu and Sanji... a less troublesome team, ain't it? The clash also happened on air, where King is supposed to have the upper hand but Sanji still menaged to secure Momonosuke.
This is the difference I'm talking about.
He wasn't supposed to oppose, but to do something at least.
Live Floor was on havoc cause of the virus, this means that Queen had the ground under control. King could have reached the top of the dome or at least go on the 5th floor to prevent enemies from reaching the top. The tower was only guarded by Who's Who and Black Maria, if King thought that they were enough to stop Kidd, Killer, Luffy, Jimbe and Sanji who were descending the tower... well that's a nail in the coffin of his efficiency...
You could say that his job was to guard the hole above the Live Floor, but even then he failed...
Jack was by far the most efficent: decimated a whole portion of the opposing army preventing a gang up on Kaido, failed only when facing an overwhelming force like the 2 Sulong Dukes combined (he was exhausted from the previous battle), recovered and ran back into the tower defeating Minks and allies left and right. Is currently fighting Inuarashi.
Queen comes next imo since he controlled the whole mass of the Live Floor for something like 30+ chapters at this point, started by giving the order to chase Luffy, Kidd, Zoro and Killer, then took care of deceiving Drake (but also lost him). He spreaded a lethal virus in all the Live Floor, but fucked up when gave the the antibody to Apoo. Was chocked by Marco just like King. At least was keeping the control on the mass, but King couldn't hold Marco still and resulted in being ambushed a couple of times during his job. He fucked up again by losing 30 minutes playing with Chopper and is now fighting Sanji.
Even Queen, who fucked up a generous number of times, has shown more efficiency than King up to this point.
The only way he can save the face is by pulling down feats upon feats like a slot machine asap
I think even if King has Coc,the way Katakuri was portrayed and his "relationship" with Luffy kinds of guarantee that he will always be special in this story.
If Big Mom falls this arc,I can see Katakuri leading his siblings as the captain of a new pirate crew.
Kata will be used again by Oda,that much is sure since he loves these popular characters.
Just like Doflamingo,Katakuri will probably come back way stronger than he was in Wci.
If Big Mom falls this arc,I can see Katakuri leading his siblings as the captain of a new pirate crew.
Kata will be used again by Oda,that much is sure since he loves these popular characters.
Just like Doflamingo,Katakuri will probably come back way stronger than he was in Wci.
Katakuri failed at everything he tried to do at the tea party. Failing to secure Carmel's photograph despite seeing through their plan was his biggest failure. The assassination failed due to BM's overwhelming power. She'd be dead now if it weren't for her deadly screams. They did not force the attackers to flee, they actually failed to stop them from fleeing because they're supposed to capture and kill them.
Big Mom did nothing to stop him from ordering his siblings whatsoever. She only told him not to get involved in her fights. I wouldn't blame Katakuri over Tamate Box; that's something he has no control over. He didn't do much to protect his siblings from the fall though.
I agree Beast Pirates would fall apart if it weren't for Kaido, or at least King will have to take his spot using force, unlike Katakuri. But it's because BM's crew is more disciplined than Kaido's due to obvious reasons. It has little to do with Katakuri being better than King. I mean replace Kuri with King, he'd be able to command BM Pirates in no time. But replace King with Kuri, none of the beast pirate high-ranking officers would give a fuck about Kuri.
Big Mom did nothing to stop him from ordering his siblings whatsoever. She only told him not to get involved in her fights. I wouldn't blame Katakuri over Tamate Box; that's something he has no control over. He didn't do much to protect his siblings from the fall though.
I agree Beast Pirates would fall apart if it weren't for Kaido, or at least King will have to take his spot using force, unlike Katakuri. But it's because BM's crew is more disciplined than Kaido's due to obvious reasons. It has little to do with Katakuri being better than King. I mean replace Kuri with King, he'd be able to command BM Pirates in no time. But replace King with Kuri, none of the beast pirate high-ranking officers would give a fuck about Kuri.
Is he doing much better?
-King was stopped by Izo and Kawamatsu at the time of the scabbards raid.
-King couldn't even damage Sanji's suit.
-King couldn't do anything to get Momonosuke kidnapped by Sanji while Queen was with him.
-Although he had an advantage over Marco with Queen by his side, he was beaten.
In contrast, Katakuri's tea party performance is much, much better.
-Defeated Ichiji in one blow
-At the party,men like Jinbei,Pedro, Bege could not prevent Kata from reaching Luffy.This is already a better feat than anything King has ever done
-He was seen by Bege as the biggest nuisance in the party.
-He found the real one out of dozens of fake Luffys
If Kata's tea party performance is anything but a failure,King is just big joke must be.
-King was stopped by Izo and Kawamatsu at the time of the scabbards raid.
-King couldn't even damage Sanji's suit.
-King couldn't do anything to get Momonosuke kidnapped by Sanji while Queen was with him.
-Although he had an advantage over Marco with Queen by his side, he was beaten.
In contrast, Katakuri's tea party performance is much, much better.
-Defeated Ichiji in one blow
-At the party,men like Jinbei,Pedro, Bege could not prevent Kata from reaching Luffy.This is already a better feat than anything King has ever done
-He was seen by Bege as the biggest nuisance in the party.
-He found the real one out of dozens of fake Luffys
If Kata's tea party performance is anything but a failure,King is just big joke must be.
Getting disarmed by an enemy that appeared out of nowhere isn't really a bad thing. Even if he did not damage Sanji, he put him out of commission for a while. Sanji is comparable to Queen, how is dominating a YC-2 level fighter a bad thing? lmao, Want me to remind you how Kuri let Caesar get past him because Ichiji, who's likely weaker than RS Sanji, got in his way? Queen did literally nothing to help King besides distracting Marco here and there. King is the one who's carrying the fight and damaging Marco all the while giving orders to the beast pirates and he's not even going all out. That's better than anything Katakuri has done at the tea party. King actually has enough observation skills(not COO)to see through Sanji's stealth black which is actually a better feat than learning Luffy's identity via FS.
King is the one who fought Marco for the most part and he's the one who damaged him. King is fighting Marco one on one before Queen decided to target Hyo. Then they fought in 2 on 1 for a while then went back to 1 on 1. Feel free to prove me wrong with actual evidence. Idc what the downplayers love to call him. You're more than welcome to prove me wrong with actual evidence.
You guys seriously need to reevaluate your standards if you're trying to tell me holding off Marco, who even the admirals couldn't pin down, is the same as doing nothing.
You guys seriously need to reevaluate your standards if you're trying to tell me holding off Marco, who even the admirals couldn't pin down, is the same as doing nothing.
-While Ichiji was one shotted by Kata who didn't even use fruit,King could use full zoan and didn't hurt Sanji.
-Even his disarmament by Izo and subsequent interception by Kawamatsu made him quite unsuccessful during the defense of the raid.
- The fact that he was strangled and then beaten by Marco when he was with Queen added even more failure.
- We know that the Who is Who, who is severely beaten by Jinbei, and Sasaki, who will lose against Frank, also do not take King seriously.And he's a name that even such weak men don't respect.
Kata can't be stopped by Jinbei,Bege,Pedro, and captures Luffy.This is a much bigger event than anything King has shown so far.You call Kata's case a failure because of Carmel's photo.Kata was struggling there alone.King failed in the Momonosuke incident, despite having Queen by his side.
Kata's pre-fight performance is much better.
-Even his disarmament by Izo and subsequent interception by Kawamatsu made him quite unsuccessful during the defense of the raid.
- The fact that he was strangled and then beaten by Marco when he was with Queen added even more failure.
- We know that the Who is Who, who is severely beaten by Jinbei, and Sasaki, who will lose against Frank, also do not take King seriously.And he's a name that even such weak men don't respect.
Kata can't be stopped by Jinbei,Bege,Pedro, and captures Luffy.This is a much bigger event than anything King has shown so far.You call Kata's case a failure because of Carmel's photo.Kata was struggling there alone.King failed in the Momonosuke incident, despite having Queen by his side.
Kata's pre-fight performance is much better.
The fact that an admiral resorted to using outside help and the sea-stone proves that he can't be put down quickly even by an admiral. The idea was reinforced again when BM openly admitted she doesn't have the tools to deal with Marco despite being massively superior to him.
That's FS+Special Paramecia at work right there. FS is Kuri's greatest ability. He needed it to beat Ichiji. It wasn't a one-shot, btw; The fight was off-paneled, though I give him credit for ending the fight without moving much. But you need to remember that BM Pirates have information on the Raid Suits which is probably why Kuri targetted Ichiji's neck where he's not protected. Meanwhile, King put down YC-2 level Sanji, although temporarily, despite targetting the protected area of his body. Ichiji's defeat was also temporary, in case if you don't recall.
PS. Gotta go, will address the rest of the post when I have time.
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That's FS+Special Paramecia at work right there. FS is Kuri's greatest ability. He needed it to beat Ichiji. It wasn't a one-shot, btw; The fight was off-paneled, though I give him credit for ending the fight without moving much. But you need to remember that BM Pirates have information on the Raid Suits which is probably why Kuri targetted Ichiji's neck where he's not protected. Meanwhile, King put down YC-2 level Sanji, although temporarily, despite targetting the protected area of his body. Ichiji's defeat was also temporary, in case if you don't recall.
PS. Gotta go, will address the rest of the post when I have time.
The way to put down Marco seems to be likely related to his regeneration process, more specifically stamina however.
We saw Garp managing to punch Marco efficiently and his regeneration losing points, I honestly doubt that was merely due Garp's superior brute strenght as Marco still managed to nullify Kizaru's and Sakazuki's attacks. That would constitute quite bad writing I mean.
So I guess the stronger the attack Marco takes the faster his regen loses ground likely.
We saw Garp managing to punch Marco efficiently and his regeneration losing points, I honestly doubt that was merely due Garp's superior brute strenght as Marco still managed to nullify Kizaru's and Sakazuki's attacks. That would constitute quite bad writing I mean.
So I guess the stronger the attack Marco takes the faster his regen loses ground likely.
Show me one panel of Marco vs King. Just one where Marco was solely focused on King. Because there are quite a few where Marco specifically mentions fighting both and never just king.
The burden of proof is on you. You can’t make a wild claim about king holding off Marco alone then say “you have to prove it wrong.” You have to prove its there which guess what it isn’t.
The fight literally started with Marco choking both king and queen
The burden of proof is on you. You can’t make a wild claim about king holding off Marco alone then say “you have to prove it wrong.” You have to prove its there which guess what it isn’t.
The fight literally started with Marco choking both king and queen