Powers & Abilities If Zoro died would he leave an asura fruit?

[DiscoZoro20]

Tf you smoking?

Probably too much dragonball and Enel vs Luffy.

Guys nine sword style. Not three. Whether it is illusion or not is semantics. The ability is very real. We have seen it yet again when Zoro could block 3 or 4 strikes of Kaido's hybrid form while Luffy got outright blitzed. Can Zoro suddenly move his arms so much faster than Luffy or don't you think occam's razor is more likely to imply that it's a manifested illusion that makes Zoro a literal ashura? Besides what's the point of creating sheer illusions without any effect? "Look it's a prank?" "Hope he falls for it? Time for clown power?"

Likely noone believes he is literally growing those arms like plants db tien style. however just like Nico Robin has a power to "create illusions" So does Zoro. Them disappearing after Zoro runs out of power does not mean it is literally merely an illusion it's an ability manifesting illusions hence why it is 9 sword style. Zoro is also not just standing around moving fast as comrade said. Zoro can't break the laws of physics with such movements otherwise he'd no diff just like Kizaru would no diff if he'd literally move at the speed of light. And whether it has shimmering ghost effects or not does not matter. It's still temporarily 3 Zoros hence why Oda made such a big deal out of saving that power for a big moment against a yonko. It's meant to be similar to gear 4 in significance and power which was NOT an illusion. Illusions can be very real in a manga. Think of Zoro's 0 sword style, diable jambe, "joyboy" and gear 5/Gear 4. all illusions yet real.

Like Oda wrote its the Gomu Gomu no Mi

Which it is. His body is made of rubber. It was merely incomplete information for a later reveal but part of the power is turning Luffy's body into rubber. And part of Zoro's asura power is manifesting illusions. Really dude comrade is explaining it short, simple and easy.

Post automatically merged: Apr 11, 2022

He's just moving his upper body at high speed.


And that's what makes it a successful magic trick; The trick wouldn't fulfil its purpose if his body didn't look stationary enough for it to really look like those arms and heads are different ones.

Just like Zoro moved his swords fast in a circle in preparation for his attack on Mihawk, the purpose of the technique is to make the movement of his swords less predictable, so it becomes harder for the opponent to be able to block or dodge his attack.
Ashura is just another of his acrobatics, with the difference being that it's at a much advanced level.

Show us the movement indications in asura panels that imply fast spinning causing optical illusions like it does there on that panel. Also show us where Zoro calls that 10 sword style. Since we see 10 illusions there he should call it 10 sword style just like asura is supposedly illusionary 9 sword style.

Post automatically merged: Apr 11, 2022

I have been wondering, is it possible that when somebody achieves something great while alive a piece of their soul can become a Zoan fruit.

To answer the topic directly. This is kinda what I believe too. There is definitely something up relating to haki, souls or lineage that makes fruits and swords "cursed" and lets people like Sanji create fire forms etc. After all "inherited will" and powers "inherited" by magical fruits, swords that draw out "Inherited will" etc sounds very similar and it is also rather similar to horcruxes in harry potter for example concept wise. Or One Piece movie 5 the cursed sacred sword... Was that merely an illusion for you guys?

Post automatically merged: Apr 11, 2022

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilWeapon

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnholyHolySword

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masamune

Anyway here a bit of anime and japanese lore literature to help understand the people who think "just moving fast" In a japanese manga with so called "cursed swords" Is practically impossible when talking asian swordsman.

 

[Chrono]

Itd be a useless DF

 

[Colt Buntline]

Show us the movement indications in asura panels that imply fast spinning causing optical illusions like it does there on that panel. Also show us where Zoro calls that 10 sword style. Since we see 10 illusions there he should call it 10 sword style just like asura is supposedly illusionary 9 sword style.

If there were such panel showing Zoro so clearly starting to move fast his upper body and swords, then it would be a poor magic trick, and it wouldn't be enough to deceive Kaku's eyes.

But the fact that the other heads have the same black bandana, and the other arms have the same yellow jacked, besides exactly the same swords, is enough for anyone with common sense to tell that Zoro is obviously not making more limbs grow on his body, and that it's in fact just a very fast movement creating an illusion.

Zoro calling it a 9 sword style is part of the magic trick, to make it seem more like it's true. Or do you think that magicians always tell the truth in magic shows?

And it's irrelevant that Zoro didn't call the first one "10 sword style". You are the one establishing this very arbitrary condition; Zoro could call it whatever he wanted. And it would be silly for him to call it "10 sword style" considering how easily Mihawk could see that Zoro was just spinning his swords fast.

The point is that in the past he had already used an acrobatics technique moving the swords very fast to make it harder for the opponent to know exactly where the swords are and how they will hit the target.

Like I said, Ashura is at a much more advanced level of acrobatics, as Zoro already has the speed to make it really look like there are more limbs and more swords.

 

[DiscoZoro20]

If there were such panel showing Zoro so clearly starting to move fast his upper body and swords, then it would be a poor magic trick, and it wouldn't be enough to deceive Kaku's eyes.

Yet you cite the panel of such an upper body movement in front of Mihawk. Sorry but Zoro is not Cabaji. Stop that nonsense please.

Post automatically merged: Apr 11, 2022

And it's irrelevant that Zoro didn't call the first one "10 sword style". You are the one establishing this very arbitrary condition; Zoro could call it whatever he wanted.

No it is not because that makes the difference between Zoro and Cabaji. It is not a condition but evidence. Evidence of Zoro using a TECHNIQUE not aecrobatics. If you want to claim otherwise then show us the aecrobatics hint in asura panels. There are none cause you imagine Cabaji.

 

[Colt Buntline]

Yet you cite the panel of such an upper body movement in front of Mihawk. Sorry but Zoro is not Cabaji. Stop that nonsense please.

Like I had already explained, Zoro was not fast enough back then. And he never intended to create the illusion that he had more swords anyway; It wouldn't have deceived Mihawk, and he knew it.

This doesn't change the fact that in the past he had already used an acrobatics technique moving the swords very fast to make it harder for the opponent to know exactly where the swords are and how they will hit the target.

And Ashura is at a much more advanced level of acrobatics, as Zoro already has the speed to make it really look like there are more limbs and more swords.

Nonsense is to believe that Zoro, even if he had some power to make limbs grow on his body, would replicate exactly the same black bandana and yellow jacket.

No it is not because that makes the difference between Zoro and Cabaji. It is not a condition but evidence. Evidence of Zoro using a TECHNIQUE not aecrobatics. If you want to claim otherwise then show us the aecrobatics hint in asura panels. There are none cause you imagine Cabaji.

It doesn't matter that Zoro "is not Cabaji". It's a fact that Zoro also used acrobatics in his technique against Mihawk.

Again, the fact the other heads have exactly the same black bandana, and the arms have exactly the same yellow jacked, not to mention the exact same swords, is already a clear evidence that Ashura is just Zoro moving very fast.

You're not thinking well about it.

 

[DiscoZoro20]

Again, the fact the other heads have exactly the same black bandana, and the arms have exactly the same yellow jacked, not to mention the exact same swords, is already a clear evidence that Ashura is just Zoro moving very fast.

Nah it is not. Show us THE MOVEMENT INDICATION in the panels. Don't just claim it is just cause you seem to like Cabaji's swordsmanship. Clothes are not an indicator... Nico Robin is using a technique and her body has those clothes too. Is she moving really fast or using a technique? You are insulting the character Zoro who in this very arc clowned King for using " Tricks" like Cabaji. His abilities are buddhism based swordsman abilities combined with kendo also known as the art of the sword. Their fighting style is very prideful and as seen in 108 pound phoenix it is not about moving fast and illusions. Here have another read:

Buddhism inspiration of the technique 108 pound phoenix

Buddhism inspiration of the technique asura

What you are doing is insulting the character Zoro who always mocks the idea of cheap trickery in swordsmanship. None of his abilities are merely "moving fast" especially when it's advanced "magic" created by the art of the sword and inner/outer spiritual energies. You are naive to believe that. There is a reason Vivi calls Zoro Mr.bushido at some point. Do you know in the slightest what that word implies?

The moment Zoro learned 108 pound cannon illusions were no longer "just" Illusions or mere quick movement. Especially not when blatantly implied otherwise. Besides what is even the point of saying it is? You think that would make Zoro weaker? Hardly. The panels and feats don't change for semantics arguments on how you want to call it. And the so called fast movement illusion 3000 worlds cut a giant golem in half so go tell anyone about that circled movement being an illusion of fast movement. It certainly did muuuch more than that.

 

[Finalbeta]

If Zoro dies his Asura spirit will arguably die off with him

 

[Colt Buntline]

Nah it is not. Show us THE MOVEMENT INDICATION in the panels. Don't just claim it is just cause you seem to like Cabaji's swordsmanship. Clothes are not an indicator... Nico Robin is using a technique and her body has those clothes too. Is she moving really fast or using a technique? You are insulting the character Zoro who in this very arc clowned King for using " Tricks" like Cabaji. His abilities are buddhism based swordsman abilities combined with kendo also known as the art of the sword. Their fighting style is very prideful and as seen in 108 pound phoenix it is not about moving fast and illusions. Here have another read:

Buddhism inspiration of the technique 108 pound phoenix

Buddhism inspiration of the technique asura

What you are doing is insulting the character Zoro who always mocks the idea of cheap trickery in swordsmanship. None of his abilities are merely "moving fast" especially when it's advanced "magic" created by the art of the sword and inner/outer spiritual energies. You are naive to believe that. There is a reason Vivi calls Zoro Mr.bushido at some point. Do you know in the slightest what that word implies?

The moment Zoro learned 108 pound cannon illusions were no longer "just" Illusions or mere quick movement. Especially not when blatantly implied otherwise. Besides what is even the point of saying it is? You think that would make Zoro weaker? Hardly. The panels and feats don't change for semantics arguments on how you want to call it. And the so called fast movement illusion 3000 worlds cut a giant golem in half so go tell anyone about that circled movement being an illusion of fast movement. It certainly did muuuch more than that.

It's pointless for you to keep telling me to show the "movement indication" in the panels, as I have already explained that the lack of it is necessary for it to make sense for Zoro to claim that he has 9 swords, because otherwise it would be too obvious that it's not the case, and it's part of the technique to create the illusion that he really has those 9 swords.

I don't care about Cabaji. I haven't written even one word about Cabaji in my posts, so I don't know why you keep mentioning him.

You can't compare Ashura with Robin's devil fruit power for 2 reasons:

1) Because Robin never created clothes with her power, whereas Zoro would be creating clothes if Ashura were not just a very fast movement.

2) Because Robin's power is a devil fruit one, so the fact that there's a supernatural thing going on is obviously known, whereas in the case of Zoro he doesn't have a devil fruit power, and it would be the first time in which he showed something more than just super strength and speed.

So yeah, you can't compare them. And it doesn't make sense to think that new limbs are really growing on Zoro's body, because there was a yellow jacket in the division between the main body and the new ones.
Seriously, think well about it: How could the new parts be connected to his main body if there was a yellow jacket in the way? That doesn't make sense. The fact that Robin can create limbs on anything, including on clothes, is not comparable, because she's a devil fruit user; Not only on clothes, but also on the ground, and on the clothes of other people, as long as she can see the target, she can make her limbs appear, but Zoro never showed any sign of being able to replicate parts of his body, let alone on fabric.

If Ashura were really Zoro making more arms and heads grow on his body, then they would need to be connected to his main body, which couldn't be the case in Enies Lobby, because there was a yellow jacket in the way.

And no, I'm not insulting Zoro at all; You're just projecting your own insecurities here; I didn't even remember what King had said before you mentioned it.
Who said that using tricks in a fight is bad or shameful anyway? I never thought of it like that; Being able to use tricks properly to win a fight depends on skill, so it's actually a very praiseworthy thing that Zoro was able to carry out such an impressive trick, especially considering how it was based on very high speed and skills to move his swords without one hitting each other in the process.

But it's undeniable that Zoro did in fact use an acrobatics trick in his fight with Mihawk; He could just strike his swords on Mihawk directly, without spinning his swords first as a preparation for it, but the spinning of his swords was part of the technique to make it harder for the opponent to perceive the location of the swords and how they would hit.
You don't want to call it a trick because you have a prejudiced notion of the word "trick" that makes you see it as negative, but it's still a trick, and there's nothing bad about it. You can also call it just a "technique" if you want, but how you call it is irrelevant, because it doesn't change the purpose and the meaning of the thing itself.

It really astonishes me that you see it as downplaying to think that Zoro was able to move so fast in Enies Lobby. It's not "merely moving fast"; It's moving extremely fast in order to achieve such impressive feat.

The things you wrote about Buddhism are irrelevant in this discussion; What Oda used as reference to design Zoro's techniques does not determine how exactly they are carried out by the character.
Instead of making Zoro being capable of really creating new limbs on his body, which couldn't be explained in a realistic way, making Zoro simulate the miraculous growth of arms and heads just with pure speed and swordsmanship skills is much better for Zoro.

108 pound cannon can also be explained realistically, as it's the air pressure caused by the very strong movement of Zoro's sword.
It's obviously not a "108 pound cannon", but it's supposed to have the power of one, and that's why Zoro calls it like that.
No one thinks it's an illusion; It is what it is: A very powerful movement of his sword that simulates the power of a 108 pound cannon.


By the way, stop cherry picking my text; If you want to reply, then be honest and at least quote my whole reply.
Not even the part that you quoted you managed to argue against; I was talking about how the clothes were replicated on the other arms and heads, supposing that Ashura is not a very fast movement, and you replied as if I were talking about how there's a yellow jacket in the place where the new limbs are supposedly growing from (which is something that I only began to mention in this reply).
So either you really could not comprehend my text, or you were playing dumb acting as if you didn't understand my point just because you couldn't argue against it.

 

[DiscoZoro20]

If Zoro dies his Asura spirit will arguably die off with him

Legends never die. See Ace who "lives on" through Sabo.. His power was reborn ready to take down .

And his will lives on through Luffy... Ready to take down imu. Joyboy's inherited will.

 

[Pantheos]

I assume Ashura is a technique, not some specific state.

About the possibility of being so strong that you result in some kind of a DF by yourself, like now with Nika, or maybe before with Buddha.


Maybe, the Nika fruit was originaly a Gum Gum fruit, but the previous user, Joy Boy just evolved the fruit with his own strength or growing. Like Kaidos fruit originaly was a fish fruit, something like Magikarp, but he just evolved it, or it got evolved before.
Its an interesting idea that maybe strong persons can reincarnate into DFs, or are able to evolve some DFs. Like originaly having only one dinosaur fruit and the different options were created by evolution of the DF?



This could be an own long theory, i will think about it...



But following this idea and compare it with the thread, just imagine we would get a Hito Hito no Mi, Mystical Creature Luffy, or Hito Hito no MI, Mystical Creature Zoro.

 

[DiscoZoro20]

Maybe, the Nika fruit was originaly a Gum Gum fruit, but the previous user, Joy Boy just evolved the fruit with his own strength or growing.

This is very possible and makes very much sense. Basically his "haki" was "the most ridiculous power" In the world. And the "awakening" Let Luffy fully tap into that form/power or whatever it is. It could also be- my opinion mostly from here on now: that the fruit was always capable of both and the gorosei or someone from their ancestors, celestial dragons etc simply wanted to erase the traces of joyboy's existence in the void century and renamed the fruit to hide the truth about him and the devil fruits. They likely originate from that time too if the devil fruit tree is the treasure Doflamingo was talking about.. It's surely not the hat. Unless I am missing something special about it aside from the fact that it likely belonged to joyboy. Assumably it is the hat of Imu's old friend would be my guess and that is the main reason Imu has it. He might have betrayed Joyboy just like Indra betrayed asura and then he killed him and kept his hat out of remorse and fear. (Imagining Naruto's ninja history plotline here basically). And what Enel finds on the moon could be related to where everything "magical" comes from in general like said tree prior to the ancient war.

 

[Finalbeta]

Legends never die. See Ace who "lives on" through Sabo.. His power was reborn ready to take down .

And his will lives on through Luffy... Ready to take down imu. Joyboy's inherited will.

The only way I see Zoro dying is by old age at best

 

[DiscoZoro20]

The only way I see Zoro dying is by old age at best

Yeah in the literal sense of course.

 

[spawn]

But the fact that the other heads have the same black bandana, and the other arms have the same yellow jacked, besides exactly the same swords, is enough for anyone with common sense to tell that Zoro is obviously not making more limbs grow on his body, and that it's in fact just a very fast movement creating an illusion.

Huh? Why do we have to go to this route that was never suggested in the manga?
Nowhere is "very fast movement" even connected to Asura...
It's an illusion created by Zoro's will. It's a simple and believable explanation that's given to us in the manga.

 

[Finalbeta]

Yeah in the literal sense of course.

If Zoro died he would only leave his greatness behind :cheers:

 

[TheSufferingGob]

I assume Ashura is a technique, not some specific state.

About the possibility of being so strong that you result in some kind of a DF by yourself, like now with Nika, or maybe before with Buddha.


Maybe, the Nika fruit was originaly a Gum Gum fruit, but the previous user, Joy Boy just evolved the fruit with his own strength or growing. Like Kaidos fruit originaly was a fish fruit, something like Magikarp, but he just evolved it, or it got evolved before.
Its an interesting idea that maybe strong persons can reincarnate into DFs, or are able to evolve some DFs. Like originaly having only one dinosaur fruit and the different options were created by evolution of the DF?



This could be an own long theory, i will think about it...



But following this idea and compare it with the thread, just imagine we would get a Hito Hito no Mi, Mystical Creature Luffy, or Hito Hito no MI, Mystical Creature Zoro.

Thats why I think the epithets matter they can be the names for the fruit since they would be named after their legends or titles.

 

[Finalbeta]

He would leave a trace of his flattening greatness in the air