Powers & Abilities Implications that Zoro has had conscious access to basic Conqueror's Haki, and the rooftop variant is the next power-up

#21
Are you dumb ?
There was no normal coc blast
Law has seen luffy use coc and would have said the same for zoro if it was normal coc
Kaido only says coc when he's hit by the attack
That is for Oda to decide. Not Toei nor Zoro fans. Until Oda confirms it, I am not making any claims.
My issue here is the way this filler is added. As a fan of the manga, I want it to be potrayed correctly, I care about the story and the emotional impact not hype moments that add no purpose to the anime and sometimes even ruin the major moments.
 
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#22
Doesn't convince me tbh.
Kaido was also surprised when Luffy used coc in their first match. I guess he had the similar reaction to Zoro.
To me Kaido's reaction seem too casual to Zoro using ashura with adv coc especially there are very few people (fewer than the people who use adv coa) who can use adv coc. Kaido just brushes off the attack and only mentions coc. He talks about adv coc when Luffy brings it up.
I am fine either way if Zoro gets adv coc. I just don't like the way Toei added this filler. Idc about powerscaling but the rooftop would be so anticlimactic.
for luffy it was u have coc like that brat kid didn t gave a fuck about him
but for zoro shocked he said ''don t tell me you used coc to '' and that was after he looked at the wound it was clear what zoro didn t used fodder ko coc
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I swear I thought it was @Cinera when I saw the title.
he s cinera s alt
 
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#24
for luffy it was u have coc like that brat kid didn t gave a fuck about him
but for zoro shocked he said ''don t tell me you used coc to '' and that was after he looked at the wound it was clear what zoro didn t used fodder ko coc
It can be normal coc clash or adv coc depending on how Oda potrays it. I have no qualms with Zoro getting this power. The only issue I have is with the anime filler and its implications it will have for newer episodes which are yet to be animated.
Anyway what is happened has happened. Can't change that.
 
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#26
Obviously inspired by the most recent episode, where it looked like Zoro is capable of making conscious use of Conqueror's Haki.


Though few things to mention:

The directors definitely reached out to Oda regarding multiple details for the latest release. This is further emphasized by the fact that one of the running plot points got resolved within the anime itself:


It was Yamato all along, and not some random third party. Anime solidifying it simply allowed the author to not bring the moment up again for clarification.

Regardless, Oda, at the very least, approved the Zoro's CoC scene for the anime, if not outright helped design it.

But even with that out of the day, there have been several indications of Zoro being able to utilize basic Conqueror's in manga:

Awareness regarding Conqueror's Haki:

The very first thing to get out of the way: Zoro is not like pre-skip Luffy.


While Luffy had experienced the sensation before (and Rayleigh even implied he can even actively use it), he had no idea what in the world it was during Rayleigh's explanation.

Zoro already knows what Conqueror's Haki is- he has experienced it up-close and was able to pinpoint exactly what it was immediately.



That much is already established- and it means that Zoro, unlike pre-skip Luffy, is not clueless about what happens when he or anyone releases passive bursts of Conqueror's. In fact, in the panel above, there are heavy implications that he's already able to utilize it; the comment (even if he said it jokingly) makes very little sense otherwise.

If he used a passive burst of CoC against Kaido by unlocking it during that moment, it'd make absolutely no sense for Zoro, someone who is very much familiar with and can identify the release of said haki, to be confused about what just happened- he already knows what the sensations feel like. You can argue that he was a bit too jaded to notice, but that in itself is stretched excuse.

Brook's reaction and parallels:



There are several points regarding this scene which seem to imply that Zoro actively made light use of basic Conqueror's Haki (which happened to be at the same time as Kaido lifting Onigashima up) in this scene:

  • Brook is also someone who has witnessed CoC up-close multiple times, and he obviously knows what the haki is. He knows what its release feels like. There's absolutely no reason as to why he'd blindly assume that CoC is being released without feeling the heavy pressure of it, which Brook is evidently very familiar with. Specially when he doesn't associate earthquakes with Conqueror's or haki in general.

  • That also explains why he'd shockingly ask the question- feeling the CoC being released, only to be followed up what looked like an Earthquake. It dumbfounded him and he found it beastly because this was the first time he ever witnessed "Conqueror's" causing such effects, so he immediately brings it up. Additionally, Brook never showed surprise at or questioned whether Zoro has the said haki or not; he merely expressed wonders at the effects taking place.

  • As for Zoro's response, he obviously did not say anything regarding him releasing or having Conqueror's Haki. He simply answered that he was not the reason behind the ground literally tearing itself apart.

  • Lastly, that scene in itself is very comparable to most other scenes involving Conqueror's Haki. With similar motion lines drawn around Zoro's face, only to be followed by a pig panel of those lines centered around Zoro's body, again. I'm aware (or at least I think) that there has been a few other instances of similarly drawn moments, but given the context, comparison is important. For example, here's a clear-cut comparison with Luffy's Marineford release:



Rooftop moment:



  • First thing to immediately note is that not only Kaido possesses Conqueror's himself, but he has lived around its users for his entire life. From Rocks, Whitebeard and Bigmom, to fighting against Roger, to fighting Oden, to facing off against Shanks, to defeating both Kidd and Luffy during recent events. He knows the Haki in question like the back of his hand.

  • The fact he feels any presence of Conqueror's Haki from Zoro pretty much solidified its usage (specially from narrative perspective), no doubt about it. The enigma here is that Kaido is shocked at the usage. He almost seems unsure for a moment as he exclaims the question. This isn't like Luffy where he calmly realized the Conqueror's following the basic, passive usage of it. This is clearly different. Another thing to note is that Kaido states Zoro can use Conqueror's Haki rather than simply having it- and while the choice of words isn't that big of a deal, given the context, there is heavy implication that Zoro somehow utilized certain form of Conqueror during his attack- implementing the haki in his attack.

  • But similar to Kaido's reactions, another enigma is that we see absolutely no visible presence of CoC at all. There are no black lightnings, haki leaks, or anything that clearly signifies usage of said Haki barring Kaido's words.

  • This can perfectly explain Zoro's reaction. If it was just a basic, passive burst of Haki, Kaido would not be surprised by it to this extent, and Zoro, who has experienced it many times before and is familiar with its pressure, would not be unsure of whether he used it or not.

  • This might also be able to perfectly explain the concept of Asura: is a sudden manifestation of limbs and heads that not only boost Zoro's prowess, but also act as physical parts of bodies... there's absolutely no explanation as to why Zoro, a human without any Devil Fruit, would be able to pull off something like this. And unlike, say, DJ, Oda has given no explanations at all, and had Zoro use it VERY minimally. Conqueror's Haki being behind it makes most sense.

In short, there are multiple reasons to assume the Conqueror's Haki showcased on rooftop was an advanced form- but not similar to the one Luffy or Kaido utilize, as evident by the lack of similar visuals and Kaido's own shocked reaction.

On top of that, there has never really been a single scene where Zoro implied he's not capable of using basic Conqueror's Haki, while a bunch of moments implying that he does, in fact, possess it. The fact that anime got the permission to blatantly showcase it (and yes, they did get the permission; the episode contained spoilers that even Manga readers are not aware of) feels like another surefire way of establishing his control over the elementary aspect- so Oda can primarily focus on mastering of the advanced forms as Zoro's next development or ceiling.

There's no hard evidence, but it really seems to be the route Oda is taking with it. If he merely wanted to build-up Zoro's basic Conqueror's Haki, he'd have established its usage in some way other than through an Asura attack with completely different visuals- he'd have done something similar to Kaido recognizing Luffy. As things stand, it really seems like he might just establish the basic usage of Conqueror's within Zoro's existing arsenal, and move onto the power-up he actively set up during 1010 as next phase of his development.
I like it... Nice post
 
#27
@mrtsrdr

This post is a example of forumlated opinion for Zoro CoC, etc

Out of respect, if you or any other Sanji stan would give a forumlated theory upon why Sanji has CoC I will gladly read it and take it seriously, and let you know if it is reasonable or not. Provide examples in recent arcs as well.

But the Ch 100 cover or Zoro has it, or some other random crap l i will continue to destroy those left and right.
 
#28
Luffy used it by accident in Marineford too without knowing what he was using. If Zoro says he doesn't know what it is then he doesn't know. Why do Zoro fans always disregard Zoro's own words? :kayneshrug:
 
#30
Yeah, looks like the anime is canon now, Zoro saying he doesn't knew what Kaido was talking about is filler, and Sanji knocked out X-Drake too :myman:

Seriously, Zoro always had that intimidation aura, but thats just to his own, Luffy is a CoC user much before him and fodder never said the same about Luffy what they say about Zoro's "intimidation aura" or something related to "bloodlust aura", especially that Asura must have something to do with Zoro's own CoC intimidation aura, see Zoro vs Kaku

Coincidentally exactly when Kaido realizes Zoro is also has CoC, he already knew Luffy and Kidd had it, he was even complaining about having too much CoC users there, thats why he got surprised with Zoro, especially that Kaido is only mentioning Enma and Oden for the whole rooftop until Zoro uses Asura hitting him, besides that, Kaido was just flattering and acknowledging Luffy

There is ANY hint of Zoro using Adv.CoC
 
#31
Luffy used it by accident in Marineford too without knowing what he was using. If Zoro says he doesn't know what it is then he doesn't know. Why do Zoro fans always disregard Zoro's own words? :kayneshrug:
No one is disregarding anything.

The biggest point of the thread of further point out that Zoro never said or even implied that he doesn't know basic CoC.

And that he's vastly different from pre-skip Luffy in the regards that, unlike Luffy, he's very familiar with CoC, its concept, as well as the feeling of its release. Thus it's near impossible for him to make use of it while being oblivious.

I'd appreciate if you actually read anything other than title before responding with a generic generalization of "Zoro fans", because what you stated is literally what I wanted to discuss the validity of.
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Yeah, looks like the anime is canon now, Zoro saying he doesn't knew what Kaido was talking about is filler, and Sanji knocked out X-Drake too :myman:

Seriously, Zoro always had that intimidation aura, but thats just to his own, Luffy is a CoC user much before him and fodder never said the same about Luffy what they say about Zoro's "intimidation aura" or something related to "bloodlust aura", especially that Asura must have something to do with Zoro's own CoC intimidation aura, see Zoro vs Kaku

Coincidentally exactly when Kaido realizes Zoro is also has CoC, he already knew Luffy and Kidd had it, he was even complaining about having too much CoC users there, thats why he got surprised with Zoro, especially that Kaido is only mentioning Enma and Oden for the whole rooftop until Zoro uses Asura hitting him, besides that, Kaido was just flattering and acknowledging Luffy

There is ANY hint of Zoro using Adv.CoC
Obviously Zoro did not know what Kaido was talking about. Asura was not basic CoC.

Unless you want to imply that it was? I'd gladly take any arguments against points mentioned under "rooftop" sections. Kaido going "?!!!!" and mentioning it like a question rather than statement just because "there are too many CoC user" seems fairly nonsensical tbh. He was shocked and that's odd.

Zoro also knows what CoC feels like, he has experienced it and has a captain who uses it. He had no idea what the hell happened.

It was most likely not basic CoC. Not by logic or statements of others, and not by any real visual hint either. Basic CoC burst being released during an ultimate attack is also something that's never happened before.
 
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#32
No one is disregarding anything.

The biggest point of the thread of further point out that Zoro never said or even implied that he doesn't know basic CoC.

And that he's vastly different from pre-skip Luffy in the regards that, unlike Luffy, he's very familiar with CoC, its concept, as well as the feeling of its release. Thus it's near impossible for him to make use of it while being oblivious.

I'd appreciate if you actually read anything other than title before responding with a generic generalization of "Zoro fans", because what you stated is literally what I wanted to discuss the validity of.
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Obviously Zoro did not know what Kaido was talking about. Asura was not basic CoC.

Unless you want to imply that it was? I'd gladly take any arguments against points mentioned under "rooftop" sections.
I don't think asura itself has anything to do with coc in of itself. I just think he coated it.
 
#33
I do understand that we shouldnt consider Anime canon in general, but obviously there are some moment where we can consider Anime canon

I mean, would Oda allow Toei to give a random character CoC? And dont get me wrong, it's not the scene that is canon, it's the idea that zoro has CoC is canon

And yeah, nice thread
 
#34
I don't think asura itself has anything to do with coc in of itself. I just think he coated it.
That's what I'd naturally be inclined to think, too. But the lack of visuals (black lightning, haki leak, etc) would be really odd. Why not just display those if Oda wants to imply coating?

Plus, Asura is... weird. Really hard to come up with an explanation for it without relating it to CoC.
 
#35
That's what I'd naturally be inclined to think, too. But the lack of visuals (black lightning, haki leak, etc) would be really odd. Why not just display those if Oda wants to imply coating?

Plus, Asura is... weird. Really hard to come up with an explanation for it without relating it to CoC.
i dunno man
look at the white squiggle shit and clouds around both asura and kamurasai



nah he put all he had into his attack
i e he put his coc into his attack without knowing
 
#36
Luffy used it by accident in Marineford too without knowing what he was using. If Zoro says he doesn't know what it is then he doesn't know. Why do Zoro fans always disregard Zoro's own words? :kayneshrug:
It's not that we are straight disregarding it lol what we are arguing is he didn't know how to Use the flow so that's why he questioned himself in 1010
I don't think asura itself has anything to do with coc in of itself. I just think he coated it.
I won't lie lol I hope ashura has something to do with Coc and ik I'm bring in anither anime but I grew up in dbz I wanted vegeta to have his vengeance on frieza but it never happened no matter what even in the movies.... If Zoro ashura is coc then for me zoro showed it first b4 luffy and at a advances lvl I'm here for it πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ I hope oda does zkk and puts him over luffy for a bit at least πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 βš›οΈ
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#37
There's sadly no strong evidence about Zoro featuring base CoC yet but it's pretty much in the realm of possible assuming Oda deems it a good move. Zoro looks already so powerful the way he is I guess.
 
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