Character Discussion Is anyone else getting Tried of the lack of Training and initiative?

[Sir Yasheen]

U are talking about the begininng of te manga, more than 20 years ago here, oda changed lots of things. One piece should have ended at alabasta, just sayng

Rogers pirates was an op crew, however this doesn't mean that every member was op

We know that even with rhp pirates the avarage of power level is higher than an ordinary yonko crew, well, roger's pirate were even stronger than them, and prime shp will be stronger than roger's pirate

Shp's pirates > roger's pirate > rhp's pirate > ordinary yonko crew

But even then, not every Roger pirate was super strong.

Luffy > Roger > Kaido
Zoro > Rayleigh > King
Sanji > Gaban/Oden > Queen

Beyond that it’s like, Franky > Sunbell > Sasaki which is just individuals that don’t matter in the grand scheme of it because the big wars are never going to come down who wins between Franky and Sasaki.

As long as they’re amazing at their craft (which they are there’s no better Shipwright than Franky or Navigator than Nami) and can hold their own in fighting mid tiers to Cracker/Smoothie level high tiers, theyre fine

 

[Toryu]

People shouldn't expect a grand crew vs crew like alabasta, outside help for actual fights like Law and Sabo again are more likely that Usopp getting a real fight

 

[BigAmmi]

Zoro Goal is far beyond Strength wise.
After Rayleigh Mihawk is there.

- Imu powers are still unknown and Imu couldn't stop Roger from getting One piece either , Shanks haki is conpared to Joyboy. Roger was more or less equal or stronger than this shanks a little bit. Do you math and you will get your answer.

- imu is god tier. Says who? Either she is gonna be another broken Kaguya or Acnologia. Which would make that fight simply A group effort again. Or Somewhere around roger / WB peak levels.




Go to any flashback of roger and you will see multiple pirates around them. Fodder class or not , numbers do matter if you're not a conqueror.

Anyone below Jimbei will get overwhelmed by numbers and eventually win.

" we are in a shounen Manga , they will overcome every piraye crew , even in strength "

That's what you all doesn't understand , PK is not all abour strength. Mihawk clearly stated that. It's much more difficult to surpass him.

Because PK is more or less a Luck title only , Ponelglyph hunting and other stuff is way too difficult.

Roger had to beg WB to give Oden or else he would have never become PK.

"Even in strength" naah lol.

I will ignore the first part, because i don't talk about zorotards shit things, they have no effects on me

-"Go to any flashback of roger and you will see multiple pirates around them. Fodder class or not , numbers do matter if you're not a conqueror".

They are all members of the crew. They are not allies. They are part of the crew of roger. They are roger's pirate

"PK is not all abour strength"

True. Is not all about strenght, but strenght is an important part, however is not the most important

This is the point u don't understand: they will overcome every crew, even in strenght, not only, even if it is only a part of what u need to be the pk and after the "king" of the world and take joyboys' place, with strenght alone, u can't be pk and, moreover, u can't be the new joyboy

 

[Gauntlet]

There's no need for that when you have plot armor. Sure, most of the Straw Hats would get utterly humiliated by a Logia user, but even the Straw Hats know that'll never happen, and therefore there's no point of taking such preventive measures.

 

[DonWick]

Nah, she needs to be commanders level. She needs to be able to hold off and possibly defeat people like Smoothy, Jack or Queen. Same with Franky and Maybe Brook.
The Billion trio needs to be top tiers though. That'll SH crew one of the strongest ever to exist. Possibly stronger than Rocks when you factor in the insane levels of their captain.

I’m seperating Eobin because of her heritage. She needs to be able to protect herself in most situations at least whether it’s CP0 chasing her or the Blackbeard Pirates for being able to read the Poneglyphs. Even the gorosei want her dead. Commander level isn’t enough.

Post automatically merged: Sep 10, 2024

so they would attempt a raid and kaido won't find and kill all the remaining samurais. where do you expect them to hide for 3 yers

That’s up to Oda it could be where pluton is for all I care.

Post automatically merged: Sep 10, 2024

Yeah, there's that too. Myself, I'm particularly fine if not everyone in the SHs unlocks haki.



Well, Usopp might still be learning to control it, but he does know about haki, as he talks especifically about it in Dressrosa and later uses Big Mom's CoC in his own favor in Onigashima.

Spoiler

Fair point. I completely forgot about this scene.

 

[BigAmmi]

But even then, not every Roger pirate was super strong.

Luffy > Roger > Kaido
Zoro > Rayleigh > King
Sanji > Gaban/Oden > Queen

Beyond that it’s like, Franky > Sunbell > Sasaki which is just individuals that don’t matter in the grand scheme of it because the big wars are never going to come down who wins between Franky and Sasaki.

As long as they’re amazing at their craft (which they are there’s no better Shipwright than Franky or Navigator than Nami) and can hold their own in fighting mid tiers to Cracker/Smoothie level high tiers, theyre fine

I know, this is why i talked about "average"

Nami will not be op, even chopper and usopp, but they will be stronger than the weakest members of roger's pirates who were stronger than the weakest members of an ordinary yonko crew

Nami > weakest member of roger's pirate > weakest member of kaido

If u apply this on every members, shp will be the strongest by a discret/big margin

 

[Cruxroux]

"PK is not all abour strength"

True. Is not all about strenght, but strenght is an important part, however is not the most important

This is the point u don't understand: they will overcome every crew, even in strenght, not only, even if it is only a part of what u need to be the pk and after the "king" of the world and take joyboys' place, with strenght alone, u can't be pk and, moreover, u can't be the new joyboy

Jesus christ.
It's skill and a crew needed to become PK.
I'm gonna go as far as to say , Joyboy crew had main fodders with him as well.

Strength representstion is done by top brass of the crew only.
Rest doesn't matter or even counted in strength.

They have skills , people die to look for.
- Nami is probably the best navigator
- Chopper will turn out to be the best doctor
- Sanji finds all blue
- Robin finds out about Void century
- Franky builds a boat which sails through grandline
- Brook meets laboon
- Ussop becomes a great warrior
- Zoro becomes the strongest (Only me zoro tard won't work on me either , I'm open debates try me if you can)
- Luffy becomes pirate king.

This all is required for PK.
Not just strength , Luffy would be picking only Strong members only if that was the case.

Crew already has a role they should be good at , rest they only focus at minimum level Swlf defense. That's it.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

I know, this is why i talked about "average"

Nami will not be op, even chopper and usopp, but they will be stronger than the weakest members of roger's pirates who were stronger than the weakest members of an ordinary yonko crew

Nami > weakest member of roger's pirate > weakest member of kaido

If u apply this on every members, shp will be the strongest by a discret/big margin

Nami already is way stronger than the fodder of the BMP and Beast Pirates even Usopp one shots most of them

 

[park_min young]

Honestly, the raid needed to fail, followed by a 2-3 years training arc

That would have made Marineford meaningless, they’re supposed to be ready for any challenges. I can see the SHs losing one last time to Blackbeard Pirates or the World Government. But it will only be a temporary loss like what happened in Ennies Lobby.

 

[LemonadeCandy]

To be fair, One Piece really has never been focused on dedicated training arcs like other Shonen. the 2 years timeskip was the only time the crew as a whole legitimately put their journey on hold to improve themselves and that was also a huge milestone starting the "New World" portion of the story.

Oda clearly just enjoys the "surpassing your limits mid-fight" trope which is why he specifically wrote haki as a power that blooms in fierce battles and why in Wano, despite Luffy and Zoro actually training in the lead up to the Onigashima showdown, only overcame the obstacles they faced due to mid-fight powerups (aCoC, awakening).

Same idea applies to the rest of the crew. They will go into fights as underdogs and show a level of resilience they have never displayed before to defeat the odds and come out of the struggle stronger. Especially now with the urgency of the final saga, I really can't see the momentum getting killed for serious dedicated training. The SHs that rely on some kind of device might get upgrades thanks to Lilith but the rest will probably come down to their perseverance in the middle of battle.

 

[BlackLegFring]

Marines are specifically trained in various forms of combat. Them being nameless means nothing.
There are only a handful of people with Logia powers out of the billions in the world.

And yet they ran into one of those logia users. If none of the monster trio were there, that logia user would have wiped out all the Strawhats at his leisure. That doesn’t seem ridiculous to you? 1 random logia being able to wipe out most of a Yonko’s core crew?

And yes, nameless Marines of no rank having Haki does mean something. It means that the Strawhats outside of maybe Usopp & Nami have no excuse.
They have crewmates that can teach them the very basics so they aren’t defenseless if John Doe logia wants to end their lives.

 

[Nolimittweezy]

And yet they ran into one of those logia users. If none of the monster trio were there, that logia user would have wiped out all the Strawhats at his leisure. That doesn’t seem ridiculous to you? 1 random logia being able to wipe out most of a Yonko’s core crew?

Logia are the most powerful class of devil fruits for a reason. There hasn’t been one single weak logia user so I’m not sure why you’re acting like it’s some kind of slight to lose to one.

And yes, nameless Marines of no rank having Haki does mean something. It means that the Strawhats outside of maybe Usopp & Nami have no excuse.
They have crewmates that can teach them the very basics so they aren’t defenseless if John Doe logia wants to end their lives.

Who said they have no rank? You’re literally just making stuff up

The SH’s are not teachers and you do realize it’s only been a few weeks since they reunited, right? Rayleigh said even 2 years was not enough to learn the basics.

 

[BlackLegFring]

Logia are the most powerful class of devil fruits for a reason. There hasn’t been one single weak logia user so I’m not sure why you’re acting like it’s some kind of slight to lose to one.

Who said they have no rank? You’re literally just making stuff up

The SH’s are not teachers and you do realize it’s only been a few weeks since they reunited, right? Rayleigh said even 2 years was not enough to learn the basics.

All those excuses are terrible. Koby learned Haki in 2 years, so that excuse doesn’t fly. Sanji learned Haki from just running from Okamas.
Bonney, a 12 year old child can use Haki with no formal teacher even.

And yes, none of the Marines shown using Haki against the Birdcage had any rank. The only ranking officers were Fujitora, Bastille & Maynard. So at best you’d have maybe a rear admiral or captain which would still be fodder to the middle trio.
The basics are all they need. No one is begging for advanced Haki off the bat.

And yes, it’s a slight at this point for them to lose to freaking Caribou. It is tragic to think that without at least Jimbe, 6 Strawhats…the entire Tobi Roppo equivalent of Yonko Luffy would be strung up by the loser Wet-Haired Caribou.

 

[Nolimittweezy]

All those excuses are terrible. Koby learned Haki in 2 years, so that excuse doesn’t fly.

Are you serious? Koby was directly trained by Garp. Not to mention he already awakened it pre-skip and the doctor who treated him told him to get garp to teach him how to control it.

Sanji learned Haki from just running from Okamas.

This a not true. It's very obvious he was taught by ivankov. There's been 0 cases of somebody just randomly developing CoA and he was clearly knowledgeable on it despite not knowing anything abt it before...Knowledge doesn't sprout from thin air.

Bonney, a 12 year old child can use Haki with no formal teacher even.

Something you just made up. She was in the NW for 2 years its likely she found a teacher.

And yes, none of the Marines shown using Haki against the Birdcage had any rank. The only ranking officers were Fujitora, Bastille & Maynard.

You nor knowing their rank doesn't mean they don't have one, not that it matters. The marines are a military force that actively trains its soilders in various forms of combat.

So at best you’d have maybe a rear admiral or captain which would still be fodder to the middle trio.

Everybody has the ability to use Haki so strength level or ranking is irrelevant in the matter.

The basics are all they need. No one is begging for advanced Haki off the bat.

Again, if two years or more is required to learn the basics why do you insist on whining about this when it's only been a few weeks in-verse?

And yes, it’s a slight at this point for them to lose to freaking Caribou. It is tragic to think that without at least Jimbe, 6 Strawhats…the entire Tobi Roppo equivalent of Yonko Luffy would be strung up by the loser Wet-Haired Caribou.

Caribou is not a weak character. He's a supernova and his bounty is comparable to several of the notable characters we know of. Anyways, like I said, only a handful of characters in the entire world has a logia ability. There would rarely be an opportunity for them to even face a logia but even then having haki doesn't mean youd win and these same strawhats were able to fight/beat characters with Haki so...

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Franky and Robin defeated flying 6 members. What are yall talking about