General & Others Is Oda Misogynistic ?

[Doggo]

Why ?



Not really no. Crying is not "being humaliating", Tashigi is in fact very interestingly written, she question her own path which is not banal.



I can understand the grudge around Rebecca, but her character was never the one of a fighter rather than the one who was suffering because of the absence of a father figure. She fought to be close to her soldier/dad. Rebecca in that relationship is passive so I can understand your problem with it but it isn't bad writing.


Oh yes they are.. and far better that the majority of what I have witness. Not even inside the shonen genre.

- what do you mean "why"? Toki is a character that comes DIRECTLY from the Void Century. And her biggest contribution is making a poem to scary that dude for 20 years and give birth to Momo and Hyori, while singing the praises for "oh lord oden so good. oh lord oden so brave. oh lord oden abandoned his family to travel the world, what a hunk".

- it's not a matter of crying. She hasn't done anything significant AT ALL. She just gets humiliated and called weak by Zoro, Law, Vergo, Monet.
Then becomes a "mom" for the PH kids.

- Rebeca WAS a fighter. who learned a way to fight and win without hurting others. That's cool. But that was it.

 

[Warine]

I honestly don't understand what's Oda's deal with Tashigi.
She appears in the story as a throw back to Kuina.
I thought she would become strong and pose some sort of challenge to Zoro. After all, she wants to take back all meito from Pirates. Guess who's got one of those? The strongest swordsman in the world. Gotta get strong to do that.
But no.
She's a "Weak Kuina".
Which kinda proves that Kuina's fear of growing weak was actually right.

Isn't that fantastic?

I mean life ain't easy

 

[Buusatan94]

I mean life ain't easy

He didn't make hers easier.

 

[Warine]

The thing with the kuina plotline is that it's pretty much a real life setting, you can't just make her accomplish great strength afterward

 

[Logiko]

- what do you mean "why"? Toki is a character that comes DIRECTLY from the Void Century. And her biggest contribution is making a poem to scary that dude for 20 years and give birth to Momo and Hyori, while singing the praises for "oh lord oden so good. oh lord oden so brave. oh lord oden abandoned his family to travel the world, what a hunk".

Toki was a secondary character who's poem permitted to maintain hope in the heart of all the samourai and therefore permitting the regroupment of 5000+ people... So yeah.. it was "her biggest contribution" but sometimes words are worth hundreds battles. Toki was amazing.

- it's not a matter of crying. She hasn't done anything significant AT ALL. She just gets humiliated and called weak by Zoro, Law, Vergo, Monet.
Then becomes a "mom" for the PH kids.

Beside helping Luffy at Alabasta, slashing Money, questionning her own military status, helping all the drugged kids.. of course she didn't had a big Moment.. but I think we can expect her to have that in the future.

 

[Toryu]

I think Oda is just a product of his time and upbringing in the Japanese society.

He however don't strike me as misogynistic, he don't go out of his way to written a specific hate against woman. I think his representation of woman got better in Wano.

He does sexualize them a looooot, but all things considered he is not like a true misogynistic author where I can feel their personal grudges against woman.

I do hold against him his treatment of Big Mom.

Out of the 4 strongest pirates, only one is a woman ( only one woman is a top tier) and Big mom is the most pathetic of the Yonko.

I get that he sees her more in a comedy role, where he can abuse her design to make over the top expressions.

But it feels really shit how he treats the only "Top Tier" woman compared to any other Yonko like WB Shanks Kaido, none of them get that disrespect so frequently.

Had he handled Big Mom better there wouldn't be so many with such a a bad view on him about woman, sexualization aside.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

The fact that some of the worlds strongest women:
1. Is best known for being a mother and having a family
2. Is best known for being sexy
3. Is best known for being obsessed with a man

 

[Logiko]

The fact that some of the worlds strongest women:
1. Is best known for being a mother and having a family
2. Is best known for being sexy
3. Is best known for being obsessed with a man

THose are indeed sexist trope and problematic.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

THose are indeed sexist trope and problematic.

Yeah oda May not see all women as weak, but the most powerful women in the manga are sexist tropes which whether it’s internal misogyny or just an effect of his upbringing it’s still mysogynistic

 

[Buusatan94]

I honestly don't understand what's Oda's deal with Tashigi.
She appears in the story as a throw back to Kuina.
I thought she would become strong and pose some sort of challenge to Zoro. After all, she wants to take back all meito from Pirates. Guess who's got one of those? The strongest swordsman in the world. Gotta get strong to do that.
But no.
She's a "Weak Kuina".
Which kinda proves that Kuina's fear of growing weak was actually right.

Isn't that fantastic?

There's also his completely baffling and outright disgusting treatment of Big Mom and her daughters such as Smoothie, Compote or Brûlée.

It's one of the reasons why I eventually lost patience with him during WCI and Wano arcs. Even Pirate Warriors 4 does a far greater job of using and handling Smoothie that he has in two arcs.

 

[Toryu]

There's also his completely baffling and outright disgusting treatment of Big Mom and her daughters such as Smoothie, Compote or Brûlée.

It's one of the reasons why I eventually lost patience with him during WCI and Wano arcs. Even Pirate Warriors 4 does a far greater job of using and handling Smoothie that he has in two arcs.

on another point to this, I didn't even remember that smoothie exists, a YC2 that should be comparable to Queen, I can't remember what she did in WCI and that she even was in Wano.

 

[Logiko]

Yeah oda May not see all women as weak, but the most powerful women in the manga are sexist tropes which whether it’s internal misogyny or just an effect of his upbringing it’s still mysogynistic

Oda is USING sexist trope.* The women itself are not sexist trope as I explained earlier. You can't define the women in One Piece by what they are. (that would be sexist) . Meaninwhile mysogynism is different, its actual harm against women by verbal or physical abuse.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

. Meaninwhile mysogynism is different, its actual harm against women by verbal or physical abuse.

That’s more of a hate crime. Misogynism is just treating women in a specific manner because they’re women.

And I’m not the one who made the only female yonko, “Big Mom.” I’m not the one who gave the only female warlord a power related to beauty. And just look at boas character literally being about her dream of marrying a man. I’m sorry, but that’s misogyny.

 

[Ven437]

The fact that some of the worlds strongest women:
1. Is best known for being a mother and having a family
2. Is best known for being sexy
3. Is best known for being obsessed with a man

1. That is literally not an issue. Being a mother and having a family is part of the identity of being a woman, not always but it is something to be proud of. Whitebeard is the literal exact same except his evilness and physical abuse is toned down.

2. This is fair, but many women also see beauty as a form of empowerment, not just for society but also for themselves. Beauty is also in the eye of the beholder.

3.

 

[Logiko]

That’s more of a hate crime. Misogynism is just treating women in a specific manner because they’re women.

And I’m not the one who made the only female yonko, “Big Mom.” I’m not the one who gave the only female warlord a power related to beauty. And just look at boas character literally being about her dream of marrying a man. I’m sorry, but that’s misogyny.

Well not wrong, but mysoginy is more like a contempt. What appears here is what we have everywhere which is more like internal sexism. As a propagation of stereotype against women.

1. That is literally not an issue. Being a mother and having a family is part of the identity of being a woman, not always but it is something to be proud of. Whitebeard is the literal exact same except his evilness and physical abuse is toned down.

2. This is fair, but many women also see beauty as a form of empowerment. Beauty is also in the eye of the beholder.

3.

It is, its just not mysoginy, more like sexism. But in the case of Oda it's limited to some stereotype as he is rather good with women representation in narration. (not by design)

 

[Sir Yasheen]

1. That is literally not an issue. Being a mother and having a family is part of the identity of being a woman, not always but it is something to be proud of. Whitebeard is the literal exact same except his evilness and physical abuse is toned down.

2. This is fair, but many women also see beauty as a form of empowerment. Beauty is also in the eye of the beholder.

3.

It’s more of charlotte linlin is the most powerful and most notable woman in the world.

But her name is “Big Mom” she literally controls the weather but oda chose her most defining trait to be she’s a mother. Being a mom isn’t a problem, but the fact that her most defining trait is that is the problem.

 

[Ravagerblade]

Sometimes I think it's either the Editors or the way the system is designed for in Japan, The Demographic, guess there's some misconceptions and strong rooted ways.

I have been enjoying reading some Manhwa's though, They seem to do a hell of a lot better writing women, I think atm.

 

[Ven437]

Well not wrong, but mysoginy is more like a contempt. What appears here is what we have everywhere which is more like internal sexism. As a propagation of stereotype against women.

It is, its just not mysoginy, more like sexism. But in the case of Oda it's limited to some stereotype as he is rather good with women representation in narration. (not by design)

It’s more of charlotte linlin is the most powerful and most notable woman in the world.

But her name is “Big Mom” she literally controls the weather but oda chose her most defining trait to be she’s a mother. Being a mom isn’t a problem, but the fact that her most defining trait is that is the problem.

Big Mom Pirates are the One Piece representation of the mafia trope like “Godfather.” They have tea parties akin to mob gatherings and employ a gang like Capone Bege for security (who is also called Father by his crew). They expand their family through political marriages, make loans that trap the clients no matter what (Caesar), and expand their network through connections ranging from Big News Morgan to Underground black market dealers. They have the best intel network. Ace Light Novel they are described as a highly organized crime syndicate.

Like I said, her role as “Big Mom” is not an issue. If she weren’t clowned as much as her other Yonko peers then nobody would ever complain about her epithet.

 

[Logiko]

It’s more of charlotte linlin is the most powerful and most notable woman in the world.

But her name is “Big Mom” she literally controls the weather but oda chose her most defining trait to be she’s a mother. Being a mom isn’t a problem, but the fact that her most defining trait is that is the problem.

Actually now that I think about it, I will come back on my statement.
In that case specifically. it's not due to the stereotype really rather than the construction of the Saga.

The saga is constructed as a great metaphor around the notion of family but more so the relationship between parent and children. Children rebelling against their abusive parents.

So while, yes, Big Mom is the strongest women and portrayed like a mom, this is done in relationship of the construction of the arc and not just because Oda had to include the strongest women and this had to be a big mom. Big Mom being literally a big mom and also an abusive figure is echoing the thematic of the Saga just like the fact that Kaido is an abusive Beast father and the "father" of an entire beast crew and deity of a country.

In short the yonko Saga is the story of children who goes against mom and dad. SOmetimes literally. With "children" in both sides that end up reuniting.

So while you can argue that Oda is sexist for designing stereotypical women (and mostly hancock and rebecca) You can't give the same argument when it comes to Big Mom as it is something that is unavoidable with that thematic.

Or you can also criticize the thematic itself but it wouldn't be pertinent as this is an actual good thematic in the context of One Piece.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Yeah oda May not see all women as weak, but the most powerful women in the manga are sexist tropes which whether it’s internal misogyny or just an effect of his upbringing it’s still mysogynistic

That is not having a hatred or prejudice towards women. Stereotyping, yes... Hatred and predjudice towards... No....