Character Discussion Is Zoro’s goal real?
- Thread starter ImmaIvanoM
- Start date
Role has changed. Mihawk was EoS enemy in East Blue saga. Before timeskip he became the mentor.
He is what Master Rayleigh is to Luffy, Zoro unlocked power up with Master Mihawk flashback same way Luffy unlocked power up with Master Rayleigh flashback
You guys can wish Master Rayleigh was Zoro's mentor instead, he was his equivalence in Roger's era but that's not what happened.
He is what Master Rayleigh is to Luffy, Zoro unlocked power up with Master Mihawk flashback same way Luffy unlocked power up with Master Rayleigh flashback
You guys can wish Master Rayleigh was Zoro's mentor instead, he was his equivalence in Roger's era but that's not what happened.
Why is that ? Plus, I'm not really talking about killing him, I don't really see the point, just defeating him is enough.
Its possible Mihawk will most likely be on the last Island with the other 3 Yonko crew, I don't see how it would be stupid to think that the battle royal ends up in Shiryu's favor.
After that .. well.. you know what I think..
Its possible Mihawk will most likely be on the last Island with the other 3 Yonko crew, I don't see how it would be stupid to think that the battle royal ends up in Shiryu's favor.
After that .. well.. you know what I think..
Zoro wants to honor his promise for his friend > For that he needs to become the strongest swordman in order for his celebrity to reach the other realm > For that he needs to beat the strongest swordman > If the strongest is Mihawk he needs to beat Mihawk, if the strongest is Shiryu, he needs to beat Shiryu.
Never forget :
Zoro's dream is not to beat Mihawk, but to fulfil a promise !
Never forget :
Zoro's dream is not to beat Mihawk, but to fulfil a promise !
What are the build ups? Mention it
Mihawk bodied East Blue Zoro and made him crying, that's it.
Afterwards they never really interacted anymore until Zoro came and begged Mihawk to train him.
Just like Pirate King can be someone else before Luffy reaches it. The next Pirate King doesn't have to be from Roger to Luffy directly. There can be someone inbetween.
Same with WSS, doesn't have to be Mihawk to Zoro directly. There can be someone inbetween and Zoro will fight the new WSS.
Mihawk bodied East Blue Zoro and made him crying, that's it.
Afterwards they never really interacted anymore until Zoro came and begged Mihawk to train him.
Just like Pirate King can be someone else before Luffy reaches it. The next Pirate King doesn't have to be from Roger to Luffy directly. There can be someone inbetween.
Same with WSS, doesn't have to be Mihawk to Zoro directly. There can be someone inbetween and Zoro will fight the new WSS.
Characters will say a LOT of things, often things that will never happen. A character can't know the future (unless they really do) So, you need to put yourself at their place. If their dreams need to defeat a certain person, then they will target said person, but the story is not only the characters, it moves in parallel.
So if the story needs for Shiryu to beat Mihawk, Zoro will not know that at first, but he will change his plans in consequence.
Its the same situation as Luffy saying that he will beat Big Mom : Luffy at the time of Fishmen Island, couldn't have known what would happen in Whole Cake and in Wano. He simply said what he had to say in order to protect the Island. Same thing happened on Wano, he couldn't have predicted the configuration of the fight.
You can't expect that when a character says that they will do something, said something will happen. That's not how stories work. In fact, they usually work in the opposite direction.
Stories almost always contradict the initial plans of the characters.
So if the story needs for Shiryu to beat Mihawk, Zoro will not know that at first, but he will change his plans in consequence.
Its the same situation as Luffy saying that he will beat Big Mom : Luffy at the time of Fishmen Island, couldn't have known what would happen in Whole Cake and in Wano. He simply said what he had to say in order to protect the Island. Same thing happened on Wano, he couldn't have predicted the configuration of the fight.
You can't expect that when a character says that they will do something, said something will happen. That's not how stories work. In fact, they usually work in the opposite direction.
Stories almost always contradict the initial plans of the characters.
So Luffy won't become King of the Pirates?
Shanks and Luffy won't reunite?
The prophecy of Joyboy coming back and freeing the world won't happen?
because characters said so?
nobody says any of these things
it's just Zoro's dream that people want to cuck
[automerge]1723692010[/automerge]
Mihawk said he will await Zoro at the top
and for 1123 chapters so far, he has kept that promise
meanwhile, Shiryu shows no interest in Swordsmanship and enjoys fighting dirty, with whatever he has, including backstabbing fighters with his new invisiblity fruit
so Shiryu becoming the World's Strongest Swordsman makes no fucking sense in the first place
The fight for World's Strongest Swordsman will be a honorable duel, between two swordsman who cares about it, not some shady guy who just enjoys killing no matter how he does it
this is just a stupid theory made by people who don't like Zoro / Mihawk and their fans, and don't want Zoro's fight with Mihawk to happen at the end of the story
Shanks and Luffy won't reunite?
The prophecy of Joyboy coming back and freeing the world won't happen?
because characters said so?
nobody says any of these things
it's just Zoro's dream that people want to cuck
[automerge]1723692010[/automerge]
Mihawk said he will await Zoro at the top
and for 1123 chapters so far, he has kept that promise
meanwhile, Shiryu shows no interest in Swordsmanship and enjoys fighting dirty, with whatever he has, including backstabbing fighters with his new invisiblity fruit
so Shiryu becoming the World's Strongest Swordsman makes no fucking sense in the first place
The fight for World's Strongest Swordsman will be a honorable duel, between two swordsman who cares about it, not some shady guy who just enjoys killing no matter how he does it
this is just a stupid theory made by people who don't like Zoro / Mihawk and their fans, and don't want Zoro's fight with Mihawk to happen at the end of the story
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Thanks, I think I just screwed up my sleeping cycle once again for a month.
Why would he have a scar in the back ? He could be left defeated with a scar on the chest, no ?
That's....
.. complicated.
The story is build in a way were Luffy is portrayed as a future legend.. so logicaly, he should become one... BUT technically, if we follow the classical path of storytelling, its possible that Luffy does not accomplish his goals, instead he might find a new way to accomplish he dream and therefore fulfill his desire.
Well...
It would be optimistic to say that they will "reunite".
They SURELY will meet again, the story is clearly hinting it that way.. but "reunite" ??? Hm....
I would not expect hugs and kisses if I were you, it might be a little bit.... tense (even if a "good" reunion could happen)
Well, that's not something said by a character, but by a clear plotline (a prophecy) of the story, it's therefore much more trust worthy than the words of a simple character
There are actual evidences to back it up.
No one want to "cuck" zoro's dream.
But if you really are a true Zoro fan, you need to understand the true nature of his dream and desire.
His dream is, on surface, to become the world greatest swordman to keep a promise to his friend. But in reality... what Zoro needs - at least in my humble understanding of the character - is mourning.
Zoro needs to let the burden of this promise go. For that, he COULD beat the world strongest swordman.. or.. something else might happen.
Oda is a clever and intuitive writer. He will not write a goal without a strong personnal need hidden, deep inside of the character.
----------------
Stories are a simplified reflection of Life.
In life, you don't get to accomplish everything that you want, unless you are very lucky. Instead, you compromise, you make side cuts and take new paths that can lead you toward new dreams and new desires.
The strenght of will of Luffy and Zoro are cool, and it seems they will most likely accomplish exactly what they want. BUT that's not a 100% certainty.
Why would he have a scar in the back ? He could be left defeated with a scar on the chest, no ?
That's....
.. complicated.
The story is build in a way were Luffy is portrayed as a future legend.. so logicaly, he should become one... BUT technically, if we follow the classical path of storytelling, its possible that Luffy does not accomplish his goals, instead he might find a new way to accomplish he dream and therefore fulfill his desire.
Well...
It would be optimistic to say that they will "reunite".
They SURELY will meet again, the story is clearly hinting it that way.. but "reunite" ??? Hm....
I would not expect hugs and kisses if I were you, it might be a little bit.... tense (even if a "good" reunion could happen)
Well, that's not something said by a character, but by a clear plotline (a prophecy) of the story, it's therefore much more trust worthy than the words of a simple character
There are actual evidences to back it up.
No one want to "cuck" zoro's dream.
But if you really are a true Zoro fan, you need to understand the true nature of his dream and desire.
His dream is, on surface, to become the world greatest swordman to keep a promise to his friend. But in reality... what Zoro needs - at least in my humble understanding of the character - is mourning.
Zoro needs to let the burden of this promise go. For that, he COULD beat the world strongest swordman.. or.. something else might happen.
Oda is a clever and intuitive writer. He will not write a goal without a strong personnal need hidden, deep inside of the character.
----------------
Stories are a simplified reflection of Life.
In life, you don't get to accomplish everything that you want, unless you are very lucky. Instead, you compromise, you make side cuts and take new paths that can lead you toward new dreams and new desires.
The strenght of will of Luffy and Zoro are cool, and it seems they will most likely accomplish exactly what they want. BUT that's not a 100% certainty.
I disagree.
Zoro already had a strong need to become the strongest before his promise to Kuina, that was always his ambition, that's why he challenged her so many times, because she was the strongest one around him.
But after the promise with Kuina, he made an even deeper conection to become great.
in fact, his character arc pre-ts was putting that ambition aside, to support Luffy and his crew, he goes from saying he will kill Luffy if he steps in the way of his goal to putting his life on the line for the sake of Luffy's dream.
Zoro's latest character development in Wano is actually the other way around. He found a middle ground.
He decided he can still be a "king" of his own, even if he is a pillar of support for Luffy.
While King (lunarian) completely abandoned his own dream just be a support for Kaido, his entire existence was based on Kaido alone.
Zoro already had a strong need to become the strongest before his promise to Kuina, that was always his ambition, that's why he challenged her so many times, because she was the strongest one around him.
But after the promise with Kuina, he made an even deeper conection to become great.
in fact, his character arc pre-ts was putting that ambition aside, to support Luffy and his crew, he goes from saying he will kill Luffy if he steps in the way of his goal to putting his life on the line for the sake of Luffy's dream.
Zoro's latest character development in Wano is actually the other way around. He found a middle ground.
He decided he can still be a "king" of his own, even if he is a pillar of support for Luffy.
While King (lunarian) completely abandoned his own dream just be a support for Kaido, his entire existence was based on Kaido alone.
That's not a forshadowing or any kind of planting. But it can indeed be a good hypothesis yes. Although in that case, it would kinda ruin the fact of Shiryu becoming by defaut the new strongest swordman.
True.. You could say that Zoro also seeks recognition, which is not incompatible with what I said previously.
That's a good way to analyse the character yes.
True.. You could say that Zoro also seeks recognition, which is not incompatible with what I said previously.
That's a good way to analyse the character yes.