Questions & Mysteries Jinbore helping the Sun pirates

[Natalija]

So, what was the narrative purpose of this? I don't mean about Jinbore showing that he's super honorable as always, but what did Oda gain with writing him out from the plot for a while?

I figured something relevant would happen to him there, but so far there's no indication of this. And he didn't swoop in to help SHs for that to be the grand purpose of his return.

What do you think it was, did Oda just have nowhere to fit him in the story? Would a Fishman not be able to hide in Wano etc.?

 

[Midnight Delight]

ChadBei>Law Nat

 

[Queek Hea D Taker]

You have chosen this path...

Well, we already saw how Inu/Neko/Kawa were treated in Wano. A closed place like that will always be hostile towards something different, so Jinbei would have a rough time hiding. Furthermore, Oda probably did this to hype the character for the raid I guess... And probably to show that leaving a Yonko's territory is not that easy.

But mainly to hype the character in his return.

 

[Natalija]

You have chosen this path...

Well, we already saw how Inu/Neko/Kawa were treated in Wano. A closed place like that will always be hostile towards something different, so Jinbei would have a rough time hiding. Furthermore, Oda probably did this to hype the character for the raid I guess... And probably to show that leaving a Yonko's territory is not that easy.

But mainly to hype the character in his return.

Yeah, the hiding crossed my mind, but still it doesn't seem to have a purpose.

What hype when he seemingly did nothing worthwhile in the meantime

 

[Queek Hea D Taker]

Yeah, the hiding crossed my mind, but still it doesn't seem to have a purpose.

What hype when he seemingly did nothing worthwhile in the meantime

That's true. Well I would add that just like you said, Jinbei's honor etc... I think that it was a good moment for Luffy.

But overall I agree that we should have gotten something else, maybe a brief flashback of that battle when Jinbei and Big Mom interacted in Onigashima... (Jinbei vs Smoothie... for example)

 

[Natalija]

That's true. Well I would add that just like you said, Jinbei's honor etc... I think that it was a good moment for Luffy.

But overall I agree that we should have gotten something else, maybe a brief flashback of that battle when Jinbei and Big Mom interacted in Onigashima... (Jinbei vs Smoothie... for example)

I really doubt he'd be written off from the plot for a while just for Luffy to have a cute moment.

The way it is right now, there'd be no difference if he was with the SHs the whole time. His departure has no narrative purpose

Maybe we'll get something additionally.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

So, what was the narrative purpose of this? I don't mean about Jinbore showing that he's super honorable as always, but what did Oda gain with writing him out from the plot for a while?

I figured something relevant would happen to him there, but so far there's no indication of this. And he didn't swoop in to help SHs for that to be the grand purpose of his return.

What do you think it was, did Oda just have nowhere to fit him in the story? Would a Fishman not be able to hide in Wano etc.?

I've got two ideas why I think Oda decided to write Jinbe out of most of Wano.

1. It's because Oda knew he already had a massive cast of characters going into Wano and didn't want to add someone like Jinbe around. In a recent BREAKTHROUGH thread where I established power levels = 50% of a character's relevance, Jinbe would eat up Zoro/Sanji's time in the first 2 Acts.

2. Oda didn't want a classic Nakama party before taking down Kaido. It would be a bit of a tonal mess if you celebrate Jinbe joining your crew in an extravagant manner before you even attack the Beast Pirates proper. It just wouldn't work.

3. Suck it Drago

 

[Natalija]

I've got two ideas why I think Oda decided to write Jinbe out of most of Wano.

1. It's because Oda knew he already had a massive cast of characters going into Wano and didn't want to add someone like Jinbe around. In a recent BREAKTHROUGH thread where I established power levels = 50% of a character's relevance, Jinbe would eat up Zoro/Sanji's time in the first 2 Acts.

2. Oda didn't want a classic Nakama party before taking down Kaido. It would be a bit of a tonal mess if you celebrate Jinbe joining your crew in an extravagant manner before you even attack the Beast Pirates proper. It just wouldn't work.

3. Suck it Drago

1. He would eat up their relevance sooner or later anyways since he's a SH now. So why this moment from WCI on?

2. :yasu: He rejoined and they didn't have a party anyways.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

1. He would eat up their relevance sooner or later anyways since he's a SH now. So why this moment from WCI on?

2. :yasu: He rejoined and they didn't have a party anyways.

1. Yeah but Oda also introduced a million characters in Act 1 & 2 of Wano, they needed time to grow and be explored.

2. Thanks to Jinbe joining during the preliminary stages of the Raid.

 

[Natalija]

1. Yeah but Oda also introduced a million characters in Act 1 & 2 of Wano, they needed time to grow and be explored.

2. Thanks to Jinbe joining during the preliminary stages of the Raid.

Ya, I don't think Jinbore would be a reason why the new characters couldn't be explored. He doesn't take up that much panel. And that wouldn't be a narrative reason anyways, for that we need something relevant to the plot

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

Jinbe is too strong for Wano

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Ya, I don't think Jinbore would be a reason why the new characters couldn't be explored. He doesn't take up that much panel. And that wouldn't be a narrative reason anyways, for that we need something relevant to the plot

I think he would tbh. Establishing new crew dynamics with him around and Jinbe's generally a shot caller, so he'd be driving the plot.

 

[Doggo]

So, what was the narrative purpose of this? I don't mean about Jinbore showing that he's super honorable as always, but what did Oda gain with writing him out from the plot for a while?

I figured something relevant would happen to him there, but so far there's no indication of this. And he didn't swoop in to help SHs for that to be the grand purpose of his return.

What do you think it was, did Oda just have nowhere to fit him in the story? Would a Fishman not be able to hide in Wano etc.?

He gained a cool entrance later.
And if he was there and people started calling him kappa, it would "spoil" that Kawamatsu was a fishman as well.
Does it matter? Guess Oda thought it did.

 

[Fn Lucci]

I really have no idea what was being expected.

You might as well ask why Luffy didn't think of augmentation for his armament on the way to Wano, or why Law didn't accompany Luffy to the first fight with Kaido, knowing that Luffy's potential death would ruin their plan anyway. The story's logic facilitates itself.

 

[Cross_Marian]

Jinbore? JINBORE? You mean Winbe or Boss.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Jinbore? JINBORE? You mean Winbe or Boss.

You mean Sushi

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

There is two ways that Big Moms powers work.

1) If you show fear, she is capable of taking your lifespan with no limits.

2) If you don't show fear, she can't take your lifespan, but you can willingly give it up.

We were shown that Big Mom will trade safe passage for someone, if they are willing to give up their lifespan. (Zepo and Pedro)

At the end of WCI, we are given the scene

Spoiler

Jinbei survived giving up his lifespan on WCI, earlier on in the arc. At the end of the arc, he was faced with the same exact situation.

He then arrives on Wano not long after with no indication that a life or death fight took place at the end of WCI. The situation was dire, the Germa and Sun Pirates were completely surrounded, and yet Jinbei shows up to Wano clean as a whistle. No bandages, nothing,

The only way this is remotely possible is if everyone who was present there at the end of WCI, willingly gave up their lifespans so they could live. This is indicated by the scene at the end of WCI, where that was the option they were given.

Luffy needs some kind of conflict setup that would force him into wanting to take Big Mom down. Her holding the lifespan of Jinbei in her hands, would be the perfect setup for that.

Whether or not Oda has changed his mind on the direction he wants to take Luffy vs Big Mom, or if it's even going to happen at this point remains to be seen, but having Big Mom take Jinbei's lifespan, seems to be the route Oda was going to go for to setup Luffy Big Mom initially.

 

[Date]

Pehaps after Wano we will really know what happend in the end of WCI, pehaps everyone died and Jinbei is hiding it from Luffy. But more likely that everyone survived because its Oda.

 

[Natalija]

There is two ways that Big Moms powers work.

1) If you show fear, she is capable of taking your lifespan with no limits.

2) If you don't show fear, she can't take your lifespan, but you can willingly give it up.

We were shown that Big Mom will trade safe passage for someone, if they are willing to give up their lifespan. (Zepo and Pedro)

At the end of WCI, we are given the scene

Spoiler

Jinbei survived giving up his lifespan on WCI, earlier on in the arc. At the end of the arc, he was faced with the same exact situation.

He then arrives on Wano not long after with no indication that a life or death fight took place at the end of WCI. The situation was dire, the Germa and Sun Pirates were completely surrounded, and yet Jinbei shows up to Wano clean as a whistle. No bandages, nothing,

The only way this is remotely possible is if everyone who was present there at the end of WCI, willingly gave up their lifespans so they could live. This is indicated by the scene at the end of WCI, where that was the option they were given.

Luffy needs some kind of conflict setup that would force him into wanting to take Big Mom down. Her holding the lifespan of Jinbei in her hands, would be the perfect setup for that.

Whether or not Oda has changed his mind on the direction he wants to take Luffy vs Big Mom, or if it's even going to happen at this point remains to be seen, but having Big Mom take Jinbei's lifespan, seems to be the route Oda was going to go for to setup Luffy Big Mom initially.

That would make perfect sense to justify his departure. However there are two issues:

1) As you said he already gave up his lifespan once. Not sure if Oda would repeat this plot point.
2) What if Kidd and Law really bring her down? That leaves Luffy having no motivation to be angry at her.

 

[Garp the Fist]

I don’t think everything needs a big reason for happening, maybe he just wanted to end the arc on a slightly down note and for fans to specualte about what had happened

Also Luffy getting separated from the rest of the crew at the start of Act One would have needed to change cause Jinbei could save him.