Character Discussion Kaido was holding back to avoid destroying the island (Another nerf that Kaido faced).

Was Kaido nerfed?


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S

Sasaki Kojirō

#1
It is no news to anyone that Kaido is the strongest living creature in the world and represents the epitome of strength in the One Piece universe. His power is so impressive that even the author had difficulty imagining how he could be defeated.

At a mere 10 years of age, his strength was already so remarkable that he stood out as the strongest soldier in a war-torn country.

At the age of 59, Kaido challenged one of the Four Emperors of the Sea to a battle to the death (Big Mom), displaying his high confidence in defeating another emperor.

At the age of 57, Kaido moved to Marineford, where the entire military might of the Navy was gathered, to kill Whitebeard, and he did so with just his right-hand man, once again showcasing his excessive confidence in his strength.

At the age of 57, on his way to Marineford, he engaged in a battle against all the Red Hair Pirates, with only King for support. Later, after the fight with the Red Hair Pirates, Kaido declares that there is no being in the world capable of defeating him.

The publication doesn't aim to list Kaido's impeccable piracy career, which, even without much focus on it, managed to reach a bounty of 4.6 billion.

The point is that, as we had discussed in the previous topic, Kaido was nerfed. Firstly, he was nerfed when levitating Onigashima, expending enormous amounts of stamina to keep it in the air. The entire island, where more than 35,000 people live, is being moved while floating. This created an opportunity for people to explore and challenge Kaido's weakened state. Even though he wasn't at 100%, he proved to be truly a monster above monsters.

You can read the topic I made here:
Hello everyone, this is indeed a critical matter that calls for a calm and thoughtful discussion. The fact that Kaido managed to keep the island afloat during the intense battle on the roof of Onigashima Castle is undeniably impressive. It's clear that this incredible feat comes at a significant cost, as it drains Kaido's own life force to sustain the blazing clouds.

Interestingly, this aspect of Kaido's ability to levitate the island may have played a crucial role in his eventual defeat. While his immense physical stamina allowed him to accomplish such a feat, it also meant that he was channeling a considerable amount of energy into maintaining the island's position. This continuous expenditure of his life force likely left him somewhat depleted and vulnerable, creating an opportunity for his adversaries to exploit.

In fact, if we examine the consequences suffered by Momonosuke, who possesses a similar ability to manipulate the flaming clouds, it becomes apparent how taxing this power can be on one's life force. Momonosuke quickly depleted his energy after lifting the island for only a brief period. This serves as a clear indication that such a feat would have undoubtedly impacted Kaido's ability to fight at full strength during the battle.

Therefore, it is plausible to argue that the act of levitating the island played a significant role in Kaido's ultimate downfall. By diverting a considerable portion of his stamina towards maintaining the island's position, Kaido left himself susceptible to exploitation and provided his opponents with an opportunity to exploit his weakened state.

You can observe the visible consequences suffered by Momonosuke in the panels I have provided below, serving as a testament to the toll that lifting the island took on his vitality.







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Yes, I understand it might be confusing for you to think that an aberration with the greatest feats in the series so far is even stronger than what has been shown, but it's understandable when it comes to the strongest living creature.The second nerf of Kaido was related to his destructive capacity (DC) and physical strength. He was holding back to avoid destroying the island or causing massive damage that would take a long time to be rebuilt.

Note that this is the strength of a Base Kaido without using his Devil Fruit:


During the fight in Onigashima, after defeating Luffy, Kaido demonstrates concern about the state of the island/castle, even going as far as complaining to Big Mom about what she has done.
If you didn't notice, Kaido is complaining about the hole that Big Mom opened in his skull using her 'Fulgora' attack.These statements from Kaido clearly demonstrate his concern about the damage the island is receiving, which means that if it were Kaido in Big Mom's place, he wouldn't be out there using attacks as devastating as Linlin's blow.
And of course, the definitive proof comes afterward, during the next round of Luffy vs Kaido, where Kaido laments his inability to protect a single castle/island.
The sentence suggests that Kaido was lamenting the fact that he couldn't protect the castle and the island while fighting. He expressed frustration for not being able to keep the castle intact and seeing both of them already partly destroyed during the confrontation with Luffy. This indicates that, despite being engaged in the battle, Kaido also had a concern for preserving the location where they were fighting.

The comparison is that, first, Kaido used Ragnarok, which opened a huge crack in Onigashima's skull (referring to the island's structure). However, Luffy was not sent flying down, even though Kaido has more than enough strength to do so.
Luffy was supposed to have been brutally sent flying down, and instead of just a crack, a massive hole would have appeared.


"But Luffy's resistance to attacks is good because of that," that's not the point. The issue is that Luffy was standing in mid-air, floating without any support. As demonstrated in the panels above, Kaido has enough strength in his base form to cause an extreme hole in the skull and send two subordinates flying. Why didn't that happen? Simple, he regulated his strength to avoid causing too much damage to the skull.

Another evidence that Kaido was controlling his physical power is when he loses "control" for a few seconds and, without any named attack, he causes a huge explosion that makes the gigantic island of Onigashima tremble completely while creating a massive hole in the island's skull.
All of this leads us to believe that Big Mom wasn't joking when she said that Kaido was still just playing around, in other words, she believes that Kaido is not using his full power or abilities to face Luffy.

I don't know about you all, but to me, it seems obvious that besides the nerf of having to carry an island, Kaido was also holding back from using attacks strong enough to cause severe damage to the island and limiting his physical strength. Of course, his physical strength was already lower than his usual state since he started levitating the island, and the island gradually took a toll on Kaido. Kaido is even stronger than what was shown in Onigashima, even though he appears as an insurmountable monster when nerfed. Lol.

@nik87 @comrade @ConquistadoR @MonsterKaido @Tejas @Hanzo hattori @Blazing Lion @GeneralP123 @Fleet Leader Fenaker @Roronoa-sama @JoNdule @DarkestKnightofSpoilers
 
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#4
Yes, indeed. Kaido loved the idea of making Onigashima the new capital of Wano, by placing the island within the center of the old capital. Kaido complaining several times about the damage dealt to the island just served as further evidence to that fact. The fact Kaido can turn into an island sized magma-serpent that can melt down islands in an instant, leaves no room to doubt Kaido's decision to actively hold back.
 
S

Sasaki Kojirō

#5
Yes, indeed. Kaido loved the idea of making Onigashima the new capital of Wano, by placing the island within the center of the old capital. Kaido complaining several times about the damage dealt to the island just served as further evidence to that fact. The fact Kaido can turn into an island sized magma-serpent that can melt down islands in an instant, leaves no room to doubt Kaido's decision to actively hold back.
Indeed, we saw a glimpse of the destruction that Kaido would cause to the island when he used his giant fire serpent. He effortlessly melted one of the gigantic horns of the island with just a touch. When he got irritated for a few seconds because of the CP-0 agent, Kaido unleashed an attack that shook the entire island and caused a tremendous explosion. The island wouldn't be able to withstand many of those attacks.
 

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
#7
The comparison is that, first, Kaido used Ragnarok, which opened a huge crack in Onigashima's skull (referring to the island's structure). However, Luffy was not sent flying down, even though Kaido has more than enough strength to do so.
Luffy was supposed to have been brutally sent flying down, and instead of just a crack, a massive hole would have appeared.
For me, this Rooftop had the same durability as "Doflamingo's glasses".
The glass only broke after KKG, which is utter nonsense.

Same here, KKG shooting down Doffy into the city & see how the Rooftop survived CoC KKG shooting down Dragon Kaidou onto the Rooftop.
It makes no sense at all - especially when Rooftop Zoro can cause massive damage to the skull when he wanted to as well.

It was supposed to be the "Arena" of Kaidou's gauntlet of the night.

Yes, Kaidou was nerfed, carrying the Island adds a toll to his overall stamina as shown with Momonosuke.

I'll also give you another point.

Kaidou showed that if he aimed his Boro Breaths at the Island, they can indeed attack from above the Top of the Island to below the Island, while pushing G4 Luffy down.
Meaning he can destroy Onigashima itself with a few more of those - which he never did vs Scabbards, vs Rooftop Nova, vs Luffy 1st Round, vs Yamato, vs Luffy 2nd round until the fight heated up & Gear 4 became a thing.
 
S

Sasaki Kojirō

#9
Welcome back. Low key had me concerned when I heard you were taking a nine month ban lol
Well, believe me, even I was surprised at how things were resolved so quickly. LOL.
For me, this Rooftop had the same durability as "Doflamingo's glasses".
The glass only broke after KKG, which is utter nonsense.

Same here, KKG shooting down Doffy into the city & see how the Rooftop survived CoC KKG shooting down Dragon Kaidou onto the Rooftop.
It makes no sense at all - especially when Rooftop Zoro can cause massive damage to the skull when he wanted to as well.

It was supposed to be the "Arena" of Kaidou's gauntlet of the night.

Yes, Kaidou was nerfed, carrying the Island adds a toll to his overall stamina as shown with Momonosuke.

I'll also give you another point.

Kaidou showed that if he aimed his Boro Breaths at the Island, they can indeed attack from above the Top of the Island to below the Island, while pushing G4 Luffy down.
Meaning he can destroy Onigashima itself with a few more of those - which he never did vs Scabbards, vs Rooftop Nova, vs Luffy 1st Round, vs Yamato, vs Luffy 2nd round until the fight heated up & Gear 4 became a thing.
Same here, KKG shooting down Doffy into the city & see how the Rooftop survived CoC KKG shooting down Dragon Kaidou onto the Rooftop.
It makes no sense at all - especially when Rooftop Zoro can cause massive damage to the skull when he wanted to as well.

It was supposed to be the "Arena" of Kaidou's gauntlet of the night.
You're right, I also share the same thought. However, Kaidou taking the attacks head-on may be because he doesn't want to dodge and risk Luffy hitting the island and causing damage. This could be his decision, but to me, it's evident that Kaidou was fighting until a certain point in the battle to avoid causing too much damage to the island.
Kaidou showed that if he aimed his Boro Breaths at the Island, they can indeed attack from above the Top of the Island to below the Island, while pushing G4 Luffy down.
Meaning he can destroy Onigashima itself with a few more of those - which he never did vs Scabbards, vs Rooftop Nova, vs Luffy 1st Round, vs Yamato, vs Luffy 2nd round until the fight heated up & Gear 4 became a thing
I was going to add that, but I didn't find it necessary. Indeed, Kaidou's heat breath attacks were aimed at angles that would not affect the island. I don't remember it well, but the heat breath attack on G4-Luffy that swept him across the island, Kaidou aimed at the hole he created to reach the top when the retainers attacked him, or did he create a new hole with the attack? (I need to check that later).

In a way, Kaidou had to be careful about aiming attacks downward while fighting, and that may have really impacted his battle.
 
#10
Of course Kaido was holding back and his stamina depletion gets overlooked by many. It's the same reason why I still have Fresh Luffy < Fresh Kaido cause technically Luffy has reached the peak with DF awakening and all 3 advanced hakis. But Kaido's showing so far has been the best in the series. And if Momo can achieve similar level then he will be even deadlier.
 
S

Sasaki Kojirō

#13
Of course Kaido was holding back and his stamina depletion gets overlooked by many. It's the same reason why I still have Fresh Luffy < Fresh Kaido cause technically Luffy has reached the peak with DF awakening and all 3 advanced hakis. But Kaido's showing so far has been the best in the series. And if Momo can achieve similar level then he will be even deadlier.
Note that Momonosuke will be the greatest Shogun of the country of Wano and not the strongest living creature in the world, even though he has the same Devil Fruit as Kaidou... So not everything about Kaidou was defined by his Devil Fruit, but rather by his Haki, exceptional physical strength, and insane endurance.

Kaido been lifting a whole fuckin island is enough Nerf already 😂😂
Yes, the island alone was not enough as a nerf; Oda had to introduce another factor, which was Kaidou fighting to avoid destroying the island, thus affecting his already insane performance.

In the 100% Kaidou version, it was him versus the retainers, in which he ended up defeating all of them in his basic form after chapter 996. After lifting the island and fighting to protect it to some extent, Kaidou's power was never the same again.
 
#14
Note that Momonosuke will be the greatest Shogun of the country of Wano and not the strongest living creature in the world, even though he has the same Devil Fruit as Kaidou... So not everything about Kaidou was defined by his Devil Fruit, but rather by his Haki, exceptional physical strength, and insane endurance.


Yes, the island alone was not enough as a nerf; Oda had to introduce another factor, which was Kaidou fighting to avoid destroying the island, thus affecting his already insane performance.

In the 100% Kaidou version, it was him versus the retainers, in which he ended up defeating all of them in his basic form after chapter 996. After lifting the island and fighting to protect it to some extent, Kaidou's power was never the same again.
Hmm, maybe so, though I think Momo has the potential to be the strongest. He can potentially have Kaido's DF capabilities (so far we know the only problem was the color), Oden's genes (already shown) and haki plus swordsmanship (he already was training with Zoro, Yamato can help him with ACoC and DF).

S-Hawk and Momo have one of the best potentials in the story. Because so far the deadliest/lethal AP guys are mostly swordsmen but these swordsmen are mostly normal humans (Shanks, Rayleigh, Roger, Mihawk and Oden). S-Hawk and Momo can have similar haki and swordsmanship plus supreme durability (Lunarian and Kaido DF) and more versatility (not just top tier haki).
 
#17
Just kidding. It is the same as Admirals. The excuse of not being able to go all out.

Kaido 1 shotted Luffy with one of his best moves which doesnt have AoE or DC.

Being restricted to DC doesnt restrict their AP. And Kaido himself said so, he couldn't win without destroying his castle, which means that if the occasion required it, Kaido or Big Mom are gonna use the force necessary for their feats.

The real nerf, somehow was lofting the castle just as Doffy using the bird cage hahaha. It is still minimal, how much? Hard to know, but as it was a conscious ability, it taxxed more than just creating clouds or strings.
 
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