General & Others Kaido's 5 shadows above Luffy completely lost sense

[Red Admiral]

If Kaido faced Roger that means neither Rayleigh and Gaban had the oportunity to face him. This is not Universe Power Level. There is no marine there either. No Im Sama.
I'm not taking as power level, instant top 5. But as people who could 1v1 Kaido. And Luffy is not one of them at that chapter.
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You are missing the previous panel where Kaido says what I wrote in my comment.
Also, Luffy didn't surpassed any of them. He maybe matched some.
Still, Oda itself stated that Shanks CoC was at least twice as Luffy at Fishmen Island. Only because didn't had more then 100k fishmen for we to be sure. Is Luffy CoC already Shanks level? If so what is Kaido CoC level for Luffy matching him like that? What was those legends CoC levels? Because from now on everything is CoC only. Forget the others haki.

Shanks and Roger CoC stand a level above Red Lighting .... we just didn't see it yet

but yes ... Luffy used CoC WAY faster than we all assumed he would/should

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

After chapter 1010 we learned that coating attacks with conqueror is what a handful of strongest can do. So Luffy at chapter 1000 wasn't using the ability that those shadows probably used against Kaido. That makes that statement completely bullshit back then and would make sense only after 1010.

This is just another proof of how much Oda is lost in his own work.

uh I think its cause he was able to damage him with a punch
but yes since its ryou not Coc
its no different from what the scabbards did bar the fact that they use swords.

just a hype moment I guess
not going to read much into it.

 

[Finalbeta]

Eventually Ryou can be "imbued" with ACoC, nothing still prevents that for the moment.

 

[Herrera95]

He screamed against Law's rocks, about that yea it was BS quite a bit. But Oda has to give Law some feat to be proud of. But about Luffy, Oda was being consistent.

"The punch damaged me...?" Was followed by Kidd's statement "how does physical blows work on Kaidou?" Followed by 5 shadows ceiling/potential. So Kaidou has singled out Luffy from the others from the get go. Even before Luffy figured out AdvCoC, but apparently his CoA is of enough quality to make Kaidou realize this.

Dude Luffy is not consistent at all. The damage he did with Kaido at chapter 1000 seems a lot more than the damage he did with G4. So G4 can't use adv CoA? If so why did he used? Kaido only took Red Doc once and then dodged when Luffy tried again. He didn't dodged any G4 attack.
G4 uses so much haki that Luffy has a 10min drawback of it. What about those advanced techniques? No drawback? It is weird. People was expecting that knowing adv CoA would made Luffy lost that drawback. It seems it didn't.
Luffy couldn't dodge Kaido human form attack completely but now he is fast enough to block hybrid form and counter attack after win knocked out?
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Shanks and Roger CoC stand a level above Red Lighting .... we just didn't see it yet

but yes ... Luffy used CoC WAY faster than we all assumed he would/should

What red lightning?

 

[Finalbeta]

Shanks and Roger CoC stand a level above Red Lighting .... we just didn't see it yet

but yes ... Luffy used CoC WAY faster than we all assumed he would/should

I don't notice a significative difference personally

 

[M944]

Dude Luffy is not consistent at all. The damage he did with Kaido at chapter 1000 seems a lot more than the damage he did with G4. So G4 can't use adv CoA? If so why did he used? Kaido only took Red Doc once and then dodged when Luffy tried again. He didn't dodged any G4 attack.

Kaido was damaged, the only problem is AdvCoA isn't enough against Kaido. It will hurts him but to put him down it will take a lot of blows.
With CoC you won't need so much blows. He didn't dodged G4 because it's part of his game. BM said it look at chapter 1001 or 1002
Those attacks damaged him if wasn't the case why he called them Monsters.

G4 uses so much haki that Luffy has a 10min drawback of it. What about those advanced techniques? No drawback? It is weird. People was expecting that knowing adv CoA would made Luffy lost that drawback. It seems it didn't.
Luffy couldn't dodge Kaido human form attack completely but now he is fast enough to block hybrid form and counter attack after win knocked out?

G4 use CoA on half of Luffy's body even if he can call Haki from all his body he will have a limit as Haki is finite.
With CoC he used it only on one point so no waste of Haki.
It's easier to Block something than dodge it and before Ragnarok he was able to block a TB so nothing inconsistent.

 

[Red Admiral]

I don't notice a significative difference personally

I claimed "Shanks and Roger CoC stand a level above Red Lighting" not "Shanks and Roger's Red Lighting stand a level above WB's"

we are foolish if we assumed we saw the last of CoC and all of it's power

 

[Herrera95]

Kaido was damaged, the only problem is AdvCoA isn't enough against Kaido. It will hurts him but to put him down it will take a lot of blows.
With CoC you won't need so much blows. He didn't dodged G4 because it's part of his game. BM said it look at chapter 1001 or 1002
Those attacks damaged him if wasn't the case why he called them Monsters.


G4 use CoA on half of Luffy's body even if he can call Haki from all his body he will have a limit as Haki is finite.
With CoC he used it only on one point so no waste of Haki.
It's easier to Block something than dodge it and before Ragnarok he was able to block a TB so nothing inconsistent.

Why was a part of his game not touching G4 but then dodging base form Luffy? He took G4 at Dragon Form, base form at Human Form and dogding at Hybrid form? Makes no sense unless G4 can't use adv CoA. Kaido is not taking another Red Roc because it hurts him but he took G4 because it didn't hurt. Also stating that Kaido has future sight.

Well, Luffy attacks with CoC at 1010 seems less efective then his CoA at 1000. He punched Kaido 2 times at 1010 and Kaido still seems better then when he got punched at 1000.

 

[Isaac Netero]

Lol Kaido was wondering how high Luffy's ceiling would be and if he would actually match those guys which we are literally in the way to...
That's some miss comprehension on your part, buddy.

 

[Finalbeta]

I claimed "Shanks and Roger CoC stand a level above Red Lighting" not "Shanks and Roger's Red Lighting stand a level above WB's"

we are foolish if we assumed we saw the last of CoC and all of it's power

I was referring to this kind of ACoC with the one displayed by Luffy.

 

[Seraphoenix]

What’s the point of this entire arc, in your mind? Of course Luffy hasn’t surpassed them in every single way, but by the time this fight with Kaido is over, he’ll be a hell of a lot closer. You’re taking issue with the semantics of the Yonko’s statement for no reason, Luffy becoming as proficient as Shanks has to start sometime and 1011+ chapters in isn’t exactly putting the cart before the horse.

This arc is about Luffy becoming a Great Pirate worthy of meeting Shanks. It was foreshadowed with BB saying it was too early after WCI and Shanks saying he will meet him soon. You can see how Luffy started resembling Shanks in this fight. In 1000 after Red Rock when he adjusts his hat you could mistake him for Shanks in chapter 1, coat and all. Many speculated that Luffy would learn advanced CoA this arc and then CoC next arc. Oda did it in one arc to move Luffy to the level where he can stand up as a Great Pirate.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

This arc is about Luffy becoming a Great Pirate worthy of meeting Shanks. It was foreshadowed with BB saying it was too early after WCI and Shanks saying he will meet him soon. You can see how Luffy started resembling Shanks in this fight. In 1000 after Red Rock when he adjusts his hat you could mistake him for Shanks in chapter 1, coat and all. Many speculated that Luffy would learn advanced CoA this arc and then CoC next arc. Oda did it in one arc to move Luffy to the level where he can stand up as a Great Pirate.

You don’t have to tell me, man, I understood all of this just from reading the damn manga...an idea that the guy who started the thread apparently hasn’t entertained at any point.

 

[Seraphoenix]

You don’t have to tell me, man, I understood all of this just from reading the damn manga...an idea that the guy who started the thread apparently hasn’t entertained at any point.

I had a drink. Misread your post. my bad lmao

 

[Red Admiral]

I was referring to this kind of ACoC with the one displayed by Luffy.

yes in this term they seem about equal

but not over all CoC ... it's too soon and not logical to assume Roger CoC = WB CoC

 

[Finalbeta]

yes in this term they seem about equal

but not over all CoC ... it's too soon and not logical to assume Roger CoC = WB CoC

Yes, that has got to be seen, I concur. I would place my money on Roger's ambition (in generic terms) > Whitebeard's, if Roger was DFless. Mathematically speaking, that would make a lot of sense if they were very close in power.

 

[Herrera95]

You don’t have to tell me, man, I understood all of this just from reading the damn manga...an idea that the guy who started the thread apparently hasn’t entertained at any point.

No dude. You are the one without a point. My point is 5 shadows doesn't make sense there. Would make sense now. And you started to talk like I didn't wanted Luffy to be Yonko Level. As the other guy said, would make sense if Luffy was Yonko level right after timeskip, at least with G4.
It doesn't make sense Luffy being compared to Yonkos at 1000 but then comes with another power up at 1010 and then be compared again. Kaido said only a handful of people know how to do the coat thing. Handful of people is that 5 shadows at chap 1000. So doesn't make sense if Luffy just enter the club at 1010 and not 1000.
"Oh but Kaido didn't said he was, it was asking if he would become..." bla bla bla. Is the same thing like saying Kaido never said Zoro has CoC he just asked for him.
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Yes, that has got to be seen, I concur. I would place my money on Roger's ambition (in generic terms) > Whitebeard's, if Roger was DFless. Mathematically speaking, that would make a lot of sense if they were very close in power.

I would say they were the same or WB were greater. At least WB accomplished his dream while Roger failed miserable.
WB wanted a family and he had one. With all the flaws a family has. Betrayal, brothers fighting with each others etc.
Roger whatever he wanted he couldn't because his illness, then he put hope on his son who also failed miserably(poor Ace). So he kind of failed twice. Maybe his ambition was great but his execution was terrible.

 

[Isaac Netero]

No dude. You are the one without a point. My point is 5 shadows doesn't make sense there. Would make sense now. And you started to talk like I didn't wanted Luffy to be Yonko Level. As the other guy said, would make sense if Luffy was Yonko level right after timeskip, at least with G4.
It doesn't make sense Luffy being compared to Yonkos at 1000 but then comes with another power up at 1010 and then be compared again. Kaido said only a handful of people know how to do the coat thing. Handful of people is that 5 shadows at chap 1000. So doesn't make sense if Luffy just enter the club at 1010 and not 1000.
"Oh but Kaido didn't said he was, it was asking if he would become..." bla bla bla. Is the same thing like saying Kaido never said Zoro has CoC he just asked for him.
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I would say they were the same or WB were greater. At least WB accomplished his dream while Roger failed miserable.
WB wanted a family and he had one. With all the flaws a family has. Betrayal, brothers fighting with each others etc.
Roger whatever he wanted he couldn't because his illness, then he put hope on his son who also failed miserably(poor Ace). So he kind of failed twice. Maybe his ambition was great but his execution was terrible.

Your lack of reading comprehension is remarkable.
Kaido was wondering how high LUFFY'S ceiling would be, that's literally what he said as per the official translation. He wasn't comparing the actual Luffy to them but rather with his insane growth in power (in just two weeks he went from not being able to damage Kaido, to knocking his ass down while also hurting him) he would one day be at their level.
Kaido compared Luffy's potential to those 5 and 9 chapters late he was proven to be right, Luffy indeed can reach that level one day.

 

[M944]

Why was a part of his game not touching G4 but then dodging base form Luffy? He took G4 at Dragon Form, base form at Human Form and dogding at Hybrid form? Makes no sense unless G4 can't use adv CoA. Kaido is not taking another Red Roc because it hurts him but he took G4 because it didn't hurt. Also stating that Kaido has future sight.

He took damage on Dragon Form and Base form just not enough. He dodges at hybrid because even if it's minor damages it's still damages. Why he won't avoid them ? He's not retard.
Why he will take minor damages if he can't avoid them.

Well, Luffy attacks with CoC at 1010 seems less efective then his CoA at 1000. He punched Kaido 2 times at 1010 and Kaido still seems better then when he got punched at 1000.

And Luffy told those damages were too shallow before he coat with CoC so attacks with CoC>>Attacks without CoC

 

[sanjikun]

Luffy used a "new type of Haki" that even Zoro wondered about. If Zoro knows basic Ryou, then it's certain internal destruction CoA.

Internal Destruction CoA is powerful even without CoC. Gear 4 wrecked him. CoC is more about allowing BASE Luffy to fight Kaido.

We still don't know if Internal Destruction IS CoC + basic Ryou, but I'm learning towards "no". Internal Destruction is its own thing, and CoC was added on top.

 

[Herrera95]

Your lack of reading comprehension is remarkable.
Kaido was wondering how high LUFFY'S ceiling would be, that's literally what he said as per the official translation. He wasn't comparing the actual Luffy to them but rather with his insane growth in power (in just two weeks he went from not being able to damage Kaido, to knocking his ass down while also hurting him) he would one day be at their level.
Kaido compared Luffy's potential to those 5 and 9 chapters late he was proven to be right, Luffy indeed can reach that level one day.

Panel previous from shadow he was saying only a handful of people are capable of fighting him as equal. Implying Luffy is now one of them. So Kaido compared that Luffy from 1001 with those legends. Not future Luffy from 1010.
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He took damage on Dragon Form and Base form just not enough. He dodges at hybrid because even if it's minor damages it's still damages. Why he won't avoid them ? He's not retard.
Why he will take minor damages if he can't avoid them.

And Luffy told those damages were too shallow before he coat with CoC so attacks with CoC>>Attacks without CoC

So you are saying he was incapable of dodging at human and Dragon form but he does at hybrid?
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Luffy used a "new type of Haki" that even Zoro wondered about. If Zoro knows basic Ryou, then it's certain internal destruction CoA.

Internal Destruction CoA is powerful even without CoC. Gear 4 wrecked him. CoC is more about allowing BASE Luffy to fight Kaido.

We still don't know if Internal Destruction IS CoC + basic Ryou, but I'm learning towards "no". Internal Destruction is its own thing, and CoC was added on top.

I agree. But then what is the difference between Zoro's attack and his Ashura and Scabbards? It is really weird but it seems Kaido felt more the attack from Scabbards then Zoro until he used Ashura. So Scabbards were using adv CoA while Zoro just basic haki. Then Zoro used adv CoC leaving a scar to Kaido but Oden used both adv CoA and CoC that was stronger and knocked him down?
Some belief Zoro can use adv CoA only with Emma that would explain only 1 scar at Kaido. But then Ashura was only basic CoC and not adv CoC. Basic CoC had nothing to do with making your attacks stronger right.