Kansaro vs Rinko

[Rumble]

That also applies to Shibashou logically, but Hara is most definitely ignoring that route

Why would it? We hardly have any context on SBS' history with his vassals.

Also, we can use Gakushou's feats to scale Kansaro.

Scale what? We should already know Kan Saro can command armies in the tens of thousands. I'm happy to assume he and Gaku Shou can command 100K, even.

In terms of experience though, i.e. reps, it logically follows Rin Ko has more experience doing that.

Hmm can't recall this, where was it mentioned?

Chapter 197

 

[Cichy]

Jyoukaryuu one shots Rinko let alone Kansaro.

Lol, what? Rinko survived a close encounter with Ouki and left a scar, but Joukaryuu can oneshot him?

 

[centurion]

Lol, what? Rinko survived a close encounter with Ouki and left a scar, but Joukaryuu can oneshot him?

And it remains among the many scars on Ouki

Meanwhile Joke-aryuu

 

[Rumble]

In order for STR 93 Rin Ko to suffer a narrow defeat to STR 88+A Shin fighting at the absolute extent of his abilities, he had to lose two fingers and sustain a neck/shoulder injury in addition to all the wounds Shin and Ou Hon sustained on him in their combined 5 attempts.

Kan Saro is not on Rin Ko's level martially.

He has no feats to justify comparison to Ren Pa's flying spear.

 

[Monet]

some of you said grand scale war ?! kansaro wins ?!

😆 🤣 sorry but this completely wrong
just look at who is fighting rinko under .its freaking renpa .

while sbs is hiding in his village all day to protect his skin from sunlight, renpa was eating generals left and right and fighting with 6gg and other states regularly.

lol there's no comparison at all.


it doesn't mean kansao is bad at grand scales nah .
but your rule to decide who is better is wrong.

 

[God Buggy]

Damn man, I would think Kansaro wins a battle with armies. He's Seika strongest General, Shibashou's best subordinate.

 

[Rumble]

Damn man, I would think Kansaro wins a battle with armies. He's Seika strongest General, Shibashou's best subordinate.

There is very little to go on with regards to SBS' service record in Zhao and less so for his vassals.

We know quite a bit about Four Heavenly Kings though, namely that they were very active during the golden era of Warring States.

And just to make a point, I think all but maybe Gen Pou commanded 40K armies during the Sanyou Campaign and they did excellent jobs considering they were commanding Wei men who had no love or loyalty for them. The largest army any of the Seika generals have commanded to date, in significantly more opportunities, hasn't gone beyond 30K.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Lol, what? Rinko survived a close encounter with Ouki and left a scar, but Joukaryuu can oneshot him?

Do you think Ouki would somehow not one shot Rinko if he actually swung his Glaive at him? How can you read Renpa vs the Shin that killed Rinko and somehow conclude that these guys aren’t tiers above Rinko in a fight lol…literally Rinko surviving 5 minutes against Ouki would be the luck of the heavens, there is a reason Rinko ran away immediately after only landing one blow.

And yeah, Kansaro would horribly bully Rinko 1v1. No clue what manga you guys are reading but Kansaro is relative to Jiaga as a warrior, Jiaga is stronger than Jyoukaryuu who literally fought Shukai Shin equally.

Posting one panel of Shin knocking Jyoukaryuu off his horse as if this somehow invalidates Jyoukaryuu’s showings is the most dishonest thing I’ve seen on this thread. To act like Jyoukaryuu doesn’t horribly mangle Rinko 1v1…the only dumber take I can imagine is thinking fucking Sanyou Shin beats Kansaro lmfao. Ask yourself why you need to lie to make these arguments.

Y’all really have Alzheimer’s when it comes to the Seika gang. MarineHQ/Sakazouki slander brainwashing the masses lmfao. Literally Jyoukaryuu is relative to Gyou’Un as a warrior, and Kansaro seems even stronger.

 

[𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚]

Rinko wins in war. Kansaro likely wins in a duel. Rinko is a monster and a victim of appearing early in the story.

 

[MarineHQ]

Rinko wins in war. Kansaro likely wins in a duel. Rinko is a monster and a victim of appearing early in the story.

I really just have a hard time seeing him beat guys like Feego King, Shiryou and Batei

 

[centurion]

I really just have a hard time seeing him beat guys like Feego King, Shiryou and Batei

You’re not alone. Its just a matter of usual series power creep that happens early/late.

Did anyone ever imagine Pre TS Croc (who got beaten by Pre-Gear Pre-Haki Luffy) to clash with a Yonko, WSS and an Admiral? And yet it happened.

Rinko may not have proper feats to scale since he lost to early series Pre-Coalition Shin, but he has enough portrayal and hype as the vassal of a 3GH from the Golden Era to warrant Hara making him relevant again if he was still alive (like Oda did with Crocodile).

And if not, then its simply just a matter of lacking martial might, and he would still have far better qualities than subs like Batei, Feego King, Kansaro, etc such as more experience, leadership, and tactics.

 

[Cichy]

Do you think Ouki would somehow not one shot Rinko if he actually swung his Glaive at him?

But Ouki did swing his glaive at him and Rinko did surivive. On the panel you can clearly see Ouki's arm being in swinging motion. Why wouldn't Ouki try to kill an enemy in front of him?

And Rinko was even contrasted with Shoumou who got killed in an instant just to show he isn't a jobber like this.

How can you read Renpa vs the Shin that killed Rinko and somehow conclude that these guys aren’t tiers above Rinko in a fight lol…literally Rinko surviving 5 minutes against Ouki would be the luck of the heavens, there is a reason Rinko ran away immediately after only landing one blow.

Lasting 5 minutes might be too much, but there's no indication that Rinko run away immidiately after landing this blow.

To act like Jyoukaryuu doesn’t horribly mangle Rinko 1v1…the only dumber take I can imagine is thinking fucking Sanyou Shin beats Kansaro lmfao.

Sanyou Shin was weaker then Rinko and won the duel simply due to intervention (landing a blow when Rinko got distracted). We also got a quote stating Rinko wasn't going all out in his initial fight with Ouhon and Shin when it was 2 vs 1.

Literally Jyoukaryuu is relative to Gyou’Un as a warrior

Jyoukaryuu lost the fight after an exchange that was few minutes at most and he is canonically weaker then Jiaga who recently is not doing so well... so I don't know about that one chief.

 

[Owl Ki]

First of all, Kansaro is still growing in terms of feats. He could be pulling off crazy stuff by the end of the arc for all we know. Lol.

Anyway, for now I would say that in a battle matchup where both have dead even forces then I am more inclined to give the victory to Rinko. Rinko is ultimately more experienced given how he would have clashed against the armies of the Qin 6 and Wei 7 during his service with the Renpa Army. Rinko specialises in offensive manoeuvres that crack open enemy defences and disrupting enemy lines.

Kansaro so far just seems to an all round competent commander. We haven't really seen anything too special from him yet. Sure he did defeat that large Qin Army going past Roumou but that was him carrying out a Riboku plan.

I don't rate Rinko's chances in a fight too highly though. Rinko was an early series antagonist that ultimately got defeated by Sanyou Shin. Granted, we haven't seen much of Kansaro in a duel yet but considering where we are in the story and all the martial heavyweights floating around on both sides with Kansaro clearly being a frontline Fierce General then yeah, Rinko would be exceptionally fortunate if he could push Kansaro to high diff.

 

[Rumble]

Rinko was an early series antagonist that ultimately got defeated by Sanyou Shin.

Time of introduction doesn't mean anything in Kingdom. It's not a shounen battle manga following the same tropes of progression where each new adversary is stronger than the last. It's never been that way.

Hou Ken was an early antagonist. Ri Boku still remains.

In fact, pretty much all of the best generals of Kingdom were introduced early. Ren Pa, Ou Sen and Kan Ki were all introduced in the same arc. Most of the strongest fighters were also introduced early on (Hou Ken, Ou Ki, Mou Bu, Tou, Kyou Kai, Yo Tan Wa, Ou Hon, Ba Jio, etc).

As for Sanyou Shin - that version of Shin had already faced monsters like Ran Kai and Hou Ken. He had fought Kyou Kai at that point already. From the onset, Shin lacked many things, but fighting ability wasn't one of them. He has always been a freak in this regard.

Even so, it needs to be acknowledged Hara wrote the plot in a way in which Rin Ko lost two fingers and sustained an injury to the neck/shoulder before he died on Shin's and Ou Hon's combined 5th opportunity fighting him.

It was a legitimate loss but Hara certainly went out of his way to give Rin Ko a respectful exit.

 

[MarineHQ]

Time of introduction doesn't mean anything in Kingdom. It's not a shounen battle manga following the same tropes of progression where each new adversary is stronger than the last. It's never been that way.

Hou Ken was an early antagonist. Ri Boku still remains.

In fact, pretty much all of the best generals of Kingdom were introduced early. Ren Pa, Ou Sen and Kan Ki were all introduced in the same arc. Most of the strongest fighters were also introduced early on (Hou Ken, Ou Ki, Mou Bu, Tou, Kyou Kai, Yo Tan Wa, Ou Hon, Ba Jio, etc).

As for Sanyou Shin - that version of Shin had already faced monsters like Ran Kai and Hou Ken. He had fought Kyou Kai at that point already. From the onset, Shin lacked many things, but fighting ability wasn't one of them. He has always been a freak in this regard.

Even so, it needs to be acknowledged Hara wrote the plot in a way in which Rin Ko lost two fingers and sustained an injury to the neck/shoulder before he died on Shin's and Ou Hon's combined 5th opportunity fighting him.

It was a legitimate loss but Hara certainly went out of his way to give Rin Ko a respectful exit.

This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it being a shounen or not.

In any fictional story in which the mc grows via combat through several years and encounters new antagonists through several arcs feat inflation happens because the later antagonists need to be strong enough to pose a threat to the mc who keeps getting stronger.

That being said I went back to read some of the Rinko focused chapters and I believe he wasn't left behind as much as I thought. His portrayal as a HK of Renpa will pull through in the end and it might eventually allow him to scale above a lot of solid generals we have encountered in later arcs, because Kaishibou is still around and has yet to show his combat strength, probably in the coming Chu campaign.

I still think arguing in favour of Rinko when up against many generals we've encountered later is very hard, simply because feat inflation is inevitable in such story.

 

[Owl Ki]

Time of introduction doesn't mean anything in Kingdom. It's not a shounen battle manga following the same tropes of progression where each new adversary is stronger than the last. It's never been that way.

It does when Sanyou Shin is obviously going to be weaker than any other version of Shin that comes afterwards. Lol.

Hou Ken was an early antagonist. Ri Boku still remains.

Those two aren't early series antagonists, they are recurring major series antagonists. Rinko as an early series single arc antagonist is not comparable to them.

In fact, pretty much all of the best generals of Kingdom were introduced early. Ren Pa, Ou Sen and Kan Ki were all introduced in the same arc. Most of the strongest fighters were also introduced early on (Hou Ken, Ou Ki, Mou Bu, Tou, Kyou Kai, Yo Tan Wa, Ou Hon, Ba Jio, etc).

Cool, how many of these got killed in a fight by Sanyou Shin within a single early arc?

My point about Rinko isn't solely about when he was introduced to the story but about when he was killed by a much weaker protagonist.

I wouldn't hold being introduced early as an argument against the martial might of Kaishibou because he is still around to get some more feats and has yet to be defeated by anybody. I would though if Kaishibou was flat out killed by Sanyou Shin/Ouhon/Mouten. Lol.

As for Sanyou Shin - that version of Shin had already faced monsters like Ran Kai and Hou Ken. He had fought Kyou Kai at that point already. From the onset, Shin lacked many things, but fighting ability wasn't one of them. He has always been a freak in this regard.

Even so, it needs to be acknowledged Hara wrote the plot in a way in which Rin Ko lost two fingers and sustained an injury to the neck/shoulder before he died on Shin's and Ou Hon's combined 5th opportunity fighting him.

It was a legitimate loss but Hara certainly went out of his way to give Rin Ko a respectful exit.

Problem is that numerous characters minus two fingers and nursing a shoulder wound still wouldn't lose to Sanyou Shin in a fight. Gyou'un wouldn't, Batei wouldn't, Gaku Hakukou wouldn't, Zenou wouldn't and I doubt any of the Seika Generals would lose a fight to Sanyou Shin with those injuries either. Joukaryou and Jiaga wouldn't lose for certain, Gakushou probably wouldn't and I doubt Kansaro would.

We will see what Kansaro pulls out of his helmet but with all the Seika Generals being a bunch of muscle-bound, bipedal fridge units that seem to rely on martial might over advanced tactics to win battles then I seriously doubt that the bloke being hyped as "Seika's #1 General" is going to be a character that Shin would have defeated in a duel over a dozen arcs ago.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

Gakushou probably wouldn't and I doubt Kansaro would.

Gakushou is a bold claim. He's shown to be strong but nothing to indicate he'd be stronger than current Rokuomi, in my opinion.

 

[Owl Ki]

Gakushou is a bold claim. He's shown to be strong but nothing to indicate he'd be stronger than current Rokuomi, in my opinion.

Gakushou pretty much low diffed current Mouten, a character that was able to block a blow from Bananji (a bloke that has been compared to Renpa in martial might) and immediately retaliate by taking an eye.

Gakushou has also been able to (with assistance) keep up with Akou, a dude that is Bananji's equal.

Both of these solidly put him above Sanyou Shin as far as I can see. Even if we gave him Rinko's injuries, I am confident that he would still beat Sanyou Shin, high diff at absolute worst.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

Gakushou pretty much low diffed current Mouten, a character that was able to block a blow from Bananji (a bloke that has been compared to Renpa in martial might) and immediately retaliate by taking an eye.

Mouten didn't see him coming though?

Spoiler

I mean, I doubt anyone would dispute that Mouten would have avoided the strike entirely if he didn't have to just rely on his peripheral vision. Definitely not low diff imo.

 

[Owl Ki]

Mouten didn't see him coming though?

Spoiler

I mean, I doubt anyone would dispute that Mouten would have avoided the strike entirely if he didn't have to just rely on his peripheral vision. Definitely not low diff imo.

His entire body and his horse is looking at Gakushou head on. Looks to me more like he was reacting to Gakushou coming directly at him again and he was just simply overwhelmed. This makes sense when earlier in the same chapter, Mouten is nursing a chest wound while glaring daggers at Gakushou who is right in front of him, implying that Shou was the one to inflict the wound.

Spoiler: Chapter 720

https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-720-page-9.html

So Mouten is well aware that Shou is there and in the previous chapter, Shou had been going on about how the most humiliating way to for an opponent to be defeated while in Drill Formation was to be crushed head on. All this makes it sound like Shou just went straight for Mouten and cut him down without too much bother.