Questions & Mysteries Kyoshiro killed Sasaki off screen?

[ImmaIvanoM]

I'm making this thread specifically in anticipation for what could be the worst development in this war yet.

If Kyoshiro managed to get the jump on Sasaki and FAILS TO KILL HIM, this is by far the stupidest plot development I've seen this arc.

I don't care what you say to justify it, its still stupid.

I also know the machinations of plot are the end all of this story so if the PLOT wants Sasaki alive, he will be alive

The only single way I can even slightly tolerate this is, Kyoshiro stabbed Sasaki in the heart and then left him dying. Then someone found Sasaki and removed his cuffs and Sasaki transformed into his ancient Zoan form to regenerate just on the verge of death. (Yes I'm saying ancient zoan can survive stab wounds to the heart)

That's the actual minimum I will take to make this any less stupid.

Outside of such plot machinations, I'm going to say Kyoshiro killed this man off screen BECAUSE WHY THE FUCK WOULDNT HE?

 

[Sakura no Hiluluk]

You forgot the option seen in the chapter : he just bound and gagged him and left him there, because while he was under the guise of Kyoshiro, Denjori clearly developped at least some form of bond with Sasaki, the two speeking like old friends and all that.

 

[Kurodiamondo]

He did not fail to kill sasaki, but he did not want to. He is smart character. I'm guessing He knows something we dont, like sasaki's past maybe. Sasaki was a captain tho. He might have some shit to tell

it's kinda weird if oda introduced sasaki and then kill him right away

 

[bennbeckman]

Should have killed him, but obviously saving him for a fight, Im think Asura or Kawamatsu

 

[Alter]

You forgot the option seen in the chapter : he just bound and gagged him and left him there, because while he was under the guise of Kyoshiro, Denjori clearly developped at least some form of bond with Sasaki, the two speeking like old friends and all that.

Agree. Sasaki doesn't seems like Kaido's loyal guard nor involved in Wano take over 20s years ago.
He's most likely lead a pirate crew who challenge emperor, lose, and have to choose between work for emperor or die. Typical Kaido or BM.

Sasaki and Denjiro seems to have pretty good bound too.

So, imho, eventhough that's not the only options, Denjiro's act is still understandable from his POV.

 

[ranady]

seeing their convo, it seems they have good relation. i hope denjiro has a valid reason to why denjiro tied sasaki up instead of finish him off. maybe denjiro know something about sasaki that would be beneficial for luffy alliances.
or it's just oda saving sasaki as enemy in future for luffy aliances lol

 

[Finalbeta]

That wouldn't feel like Oda who usually only kills rather important and important characters on screen so I don't think personally :)

 

[Just a member]

Take it from Oda perspective, you just introduced a character and even hyped his group a bit, now after a few chapters you kill it? This is something Oda will never do (not to count that there is nothing hinting at it bar sheer logic of the situation yet we should see it from the writer/story teller point of view).

If you want something similair to this situation but where logic takes the helm then try HxH, I'm sure you will love it as much as I do. To make an example in the last arc Togashi introduced a pletora of princes

Spoiler

in a war for the throne and he is (was) making them disappear like potato chips chapter after chapter lol

 

[Bullet]

Oda doesn't kill and for that to happen to a character that was just introduced and hasn't even shown his ability is impossible lol
If it was Page1 i would have said there is 1% possibility this is just probably a set up for a Denjiro and Sasaki fight

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

You forgot the option seen in the chapter : he just bound and gagged him and left him there, because while he was under the guise of Kyoshiro, Denjori clearly developped at least some form of bond with Sasaki, the two speeking like old friends and all that.

So its possible that he saved Orochi's life intentionally coz he liked orochi that one time

By this logic Kyoshiro is a traitor

Post automatically merged: Jun 12, 2020

Oda doesn't kill and for that to happen to a character that was just introduced and hasn't even shown his ability is impossible lol
If it was Page1 i would have said there is 1% possibility this is just probably a set up for a Denjiro and Sasaki fight

So kyoshiro is stupid afterall

 

[MD Zolo]

There is no deep reasoning behind what happened. Kyoshiro tricked and captured him and then moved on.

This is a Shonen manga and protagonists do not kill people unless pushed against the corner. For somebody who always says that Shonen manga doesn't work like this or that, the OT seems completely clueless to this simple fact.

Oda will not show Denjiro killing somebody who meant no harm to him. If Sasaki tries to kill Denjiro later, he might let Denjiro kill him. Even then I have my doubts.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Take it from Oda perspective, you just introduced a character and even hyped his group a bit, now after a few chapters you kill it? This is something Oda will never do (not to count that there is nothing hinting at it bar sheer logic of the situation yet we should see it from the writer/story teller point of view).

If you want something similair to this situation but where logic takes the helm then try HxH, I'm sure you will love it as much as I do. To make an example in the last arc Togashi introduced a pletora of princes

Spoiler

in a war for the throne and he is (was) making them disappear like potato chips chapter after chapter lol

But Oda CHOSE THIS

Oda chose to make Kyoshiro an actual warrior and not a pussy afraid of killing

Oda chose to say Kyoshiro was a man so angry with the beast pirates that his actual face changed

Oda chose to have Kyoshiro essentially no diff Sasaki with this seastone cuff sneak attack.

Oda chose to present this as a war with no chance for error with the literal point being the eradication of an invading g oppressive force

And then LET'S NOT KILL SASAKI DESPITE EVERYTHING ABOVE

like why not write that Kyoshiro is stupid before this scene so we can understand him not just killing the guy

Like why not write that Kyoshiro is a pacifist to some extent before this scene

Or why not write that Kyoshiro stabs the man and then later in the arc we learn his ancient Zoan abilities saved him from a clearly fatal wound

This stuff can be written well and obtain the same result. Oda just wrote the situation poorly where the only thing that makes sense is that Sasaki is now dead.

And I'm not going to call Oda stupid so I will assume the most logical outcome. Sasaki was a red herring. He was hyped up to look important so that he can die suddenly and the readers get shocked. Until the day Oda does the stupid thing of saying kyoshiro left Sasaki alive, I'm going to say Oda is a brilliant writer and Sasaki is now dead

 

[Kejon]

Kyoshiro should have killed him, but it looks like they are friends, so he just captured him I guess.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

This is a Shonen manga and protagonists do not kill people unless pushed against the corner. For somebody who always says that Shonen manga doesn't work like this or that, the OT seems completely clueless to this simple fact.

It seems you haven't read good shonen in a while

Have you read Dr stone? That's am nag with a bunch of teenagers actively trying to kill each other and they don't have the luxury of super powers

And guess how many named characters have died in the present story? None. Not even one. And yet the drama and tension remains and there's no random inconsistencies in character and motivation

Do you know how Dr stone does this? By writing the story properly. For example. Theres a character who is a pacifist. Plain and simple. A very important character who could change the tides of the entire war who also turns out to be a pacifist and so the winning side of the war must bend to his desires in order to get his help. Therefore the war must be won without any casualties in order to get help from the pacifist.

Oda can write this situation with Sasaki living if he wanted to. But he hasn't. There is no logical reason why Kyoshiro doesn't kill Sasaki. None at all. And so Kyoshiro killed Sasaki in my eyes until confirmed otherwise.

Post automatically merged: Jun 12, 2020

Kyoshiro should have killed him, but it looks like they are friends, so he just captured him I guess.

How does it look like they are friends?

Kyoshiro was in character playing they he mafia boss.

Have you seen kyoshiro outside of character saying he's friendly with Sasaki.

Also If he's friendly with the enemy, that makes him a traitor.

Post automatically merged: Jun 12, 2020

That wouldn't feel like Oda who usually only kills rather important and important characters on screen so I don't think personally :)

Then Oda is a bad writer

Post automatically merged: Jun 12, 2020

seeing their convo, it seems they have good relation

Kyoshiro was in character ad the mafia boss

We can't tell whether kyoshiro likes the guy unless he shows it out of character

And if he likes the guy enough not to kill him despite the fact that the guy is ready to kill him then that's kyoshiro being stupid

Post automatically merged: Jun 12, 2020

Denjori clearly developped at least some form of bond with Sasak

You haven't seen Denjiro talk about him

You've only seen kyoshiro in character interacting with him... meaning you don't know whether that's in character or not

 

[Garp the Fist]

And I thought the complaints about Pound being alive was bad.

Oda does not have a heroic character murder an unarmed prisoner? Stop the fucking press, what a shock.

 

[Patryipe]

Then Oda is a bad writer

 

[Just a member]

But Oda CHOSE THIS

Oda chose to make Kyoshiro an actual warrior and not a puss afraid of killing

Oda chose to say Kyoshiro was a man do angry with the beast pirates that his actual face changed

Oda chose to have Kyoshiro essentially no diff Sasaki with this seastone cuff sneak attack.

Oda chose to present this as a war with no chance for error with the literal point being the eradication of an invading g oppressive force

And then LET'S NOT KILL SASAKI DR SPITE EVERYTHING ABOVE

like why not write that Kyoshiro is stupid before this scene so we can understand him not just killing the guy

Like why not write that Kyoshiro is a pacifist to dome extent before this scene

Or why not write that Kyoshiro stabs the man and then later in the arc we learn his ancient Zoan abilities saved him from a clearly fatal wound

This stuff can be written well and obtain the same result. Oda just wrote the situation poorly where the only thing that makes sense is that Sasaki is now dead.

And I'm not going to call Oda stupid so I will assume the most logics outcome. Sasaki was a red herring. He was hyped up to look important so that he die suddenly and the readers get shocked. Until the day Oda does the stupid thing of saying kyoshiro left Sasaki alive, I'm going to say Oda is a brilliant writer and Sasaki is now dead

You know Oda, that simply is not his style. Take Marineford: Ace from the point of view of the marines was the seed of the greatest evil they ever faced, something that if it had the chance to grow would speak doom for everything the marines fight for (or at least this should be their propaganda). From a logic point of view the marines should have killed him as soon as they put their hands on him (see the USA and every big terrorist they catched from Saddam to Osama) and maybe later display video or photos of the execution, at the very worst they should have had Akainu destroy Ace the moment WB appeared and then attack with everything they had, Sengoku and Garp included. Yet Oda needed to do all the drama with Ace fate on the line until he seemed to be free... And he is dead.

Now a very similair case can be made for Orochi getting Momo, he is the only one in the Onigashima villain club who rightly is not sleeping and wants to kill Momo, the rival allaiance leader and only "rightful" heir of Wano country, asap. Even more knowing the allaiance escaped his trap and nobody knows where they are now, Kaido ships sent to investigate are still missing etc. and strong supernovas who should be captive are wrecking havoc some hundred meters from him. Orochi should slaughter Momo and display his corpse for everybody to see it. His side will rejoice and the enemy fall into despair... But we already know what will happen, planned cruxifiction, but Luffy and co. interrupt him at the last moment or something like that and even if the raid fails Momo will be saved (or at worst his execution posticipated in order for the allaiance to raid again and save him properly that time).

Then we have Doffy. Why the WG didn't kill him the moment they get him? He knows too much and now he is just an hindrance for the WG (evil warlord enslaves a country and the WG does nothing about it). At least if they killed him they would gain some face with Dressrosa.

And there are countless other examples but this is just Oda way of telling One piece. Try HxH if you haven't, you will love it. Also now you remind me a lot of @dirtyLarry and his positions.

 

[MD Zolo]

It seems you haven't read good shonen in a while

Have you read Dr stone? That's am nag with a bunch of teenagers actively trying to kill each other and they don't have the luxury of super powers

And guess how many named characters have died in the present story? None. Not even one. And yet the drama and tension remains and there's no random inconsistencies in character and motivation

Do you know how Dr stone does this? By writing the story properly. For example. Theres a character who is a pacifist. Plain and simple. A very important character who could change the tides of the entire war who also turns out to be a pacifist and so the winning side of the war must bend to his desires in order to get his help. Therefore the war must be won without any casualties in order to get help from the pacifist.

Oda can write this situation with Sasaki living if he wanted to. But he hasn't. There is no logical reason why Kyoshiro doesn't kill Sasaki. None at all. And so Kyoshiro killed Sasaki in my eyes until confirmed otherwise.

Post automatically merged: Jun 12, 2020

How does it look like they are friends?

Kyoshiro was in character playing they he mafia boss.

Have you seen kyoshiro outside of character saying he's friendly with Sasaki.

Also If he's friendly with the enemy, that makes him a traitor.

Post automatically merged: Jun 12, 2020

Then Oda is a bad writer

Post automatically merged: Jun 12, 2020

Kyoshiro was in character ad the mafia boss

We can't tell whether kyoshiro likes the guy unless he shows it out of character

And if he likes the guy enough not to kill him despite the fact that the guy is ready to kill him then that's kyoshiro being stupid

Post automatically merged: Jun 12, 2020

You haven't seen Denjiro talk about him

You've only seen kyoshiro in character interacting with him... meaning you don't know whether that's in character or not

You haven't disproved my point at all. My point was that usually in a shonen manga protagonists do not kill people unless pushed into a corner.

Yes, there one or two mangas where protagonists do kill people without needing to be in un-escapable situation. But in most cases, mangaka will not show a protagonist killing people when he/she is not faced with life-or-death situation. And if they do...it is usually followed by the said protagonist reflecting on the choice and leading to character development.

Everything else is irrelevant to this argument.

Ultimately, this thread is a follow-up to your nonsense in the spoiler thread. Get over it.

 

[Dark Admiral]

Like the majority says, he should have killed him but he didn’t. There can only be 2 reasons for that;
1. He has a good relationship with him and is somewhat a friend to him. Highly unlikely
2. There were too many witnesses which is why he just gagged him up and left him there guarded by others. Highly likely

 

[Garp the Fist]

Like the majority says, he should have killed him but he didn’t. There can only be 2 reasons for that;
1. He has a good relationship with him and is somewhat a friend to him. Highly unlikely
2. There were too many witnesses which is why he just gagged him up and left him there guarded by others. Highly likely

3. Executing unarmed prisoners is a war crime and Denjiro is a good guy.