Future Events Luffy and Zoro's feats vs Yonko makes Sanji beating King more likely
- Thread starter T.D.A
- Start date
Cue the raidsuit. We already got a sneak peak of it sustaining King's attack which could have cleaved him in two, while we know Sanji couldn't even block Vergo's kick without cracking his leg without it.
It's the perfect excuse for a power jump to happen now. This arc is meant for everyone to hit well above their weight class, Sanji has no business beating King, just as Luffy and Zoro have no business fighting Yonkou, or the weaker strawhats have no business fighting the F6. In each case there is some padding done to justify the situations (Luffy and Zoro in team battles with other high tiers + reasons you listed with Luffy's growth and Zoro never going all out), The weaker SHs are tag teaming and have deus ex on their side (Tama) against F6. Sanji's case could simply be the RS, and maybe more plot to go with it.
I'm not sold he's fighting King btw, but Oda can easily make it happen in this arc.
It's the perfect excuse for a power jump to happen now. This arc is meant for everyone to hit well above their weight class, Sanji has no business beating King, just as Luffy and Zoro have no business fighting Yonkou, or the weaker strawhats have no business fighting the F6. In each case there is some padding done to justify the situations (Luffy and Zoro in team battles with other high tiers + reasons you listed with Luffy's growth and Zoro never going all out), The weaker SHs are tag teaming and have deus ex on their side (Tama) against F6. Sanji's case could simply be the RS, and maybe more plot to go with it.
I'm not sold he's fighting King btw, but Oda can easily make it happen in this arc.
Sanji's RS already tanked a powerful attack (see Luffy's words), whereas Ichiji was neg diffed by Katakuri.
By feats Sanji's Raid Suit is simply considerably more durable.
Yeah, you don't push Sanji vs King because you want to troll Zoro.
What about the much deeper grudge between Drake and Queen?
What about the confrontation between Chopper and Queen spanning multiple acts?
What about the fact that Chopper's eponymous chapter was literally the start of his battle with Queen? The highlight of Chopper's chapter involved him bitchslapping Queen.
Drake and Chopper vs Queen seems much more likely to me for in story reasons than Sanji vs Queen.
The line about Judge is a thing, but it pales in comparison to Queen's build up vs those two:
Queen is actually in a battle with another Strawhat and an ally. Queen actually has much deeper grudges against other characters.
The throw away Germa line? It's insignificant in comparison.
This does not help your argument at all. Despite getting low diffed by Ulti, Nami is going to defeat her.
Hell, Ulti treated Nami far worse than King Sanji, and Nami is going to beat her. There is no credible argument that King is too strong for Sanji — not when Nami is defeating someone with a much larger combat ability gap.
On thread: there's no reason Sanji vs King can't happen. It would need to be motivated by story reasons though.
By feats Sanji's Raid Suit is simply considerably more durable.
Yeah, you don't push Sanji vs King because you want to troll Zoro.
What about the much deeper grudge between Drake and Queen?
What about the confrontation between Chopper and Queen spanning multiple acts?
What about the fact that Chopper's eponymous chapter was literally the start of his battle with Queen? The highlight of Chopper's chapter involved him bitchslapping Queen.
Drake and Chopper vs Queen seems much more likely to me for in story reasons than Sanji vs Queen.
The line about Judge is a thing, but it pales in comparison to Queen's build up vs those two:
- Chopper
- Neutralised his Mummy virus at Udon
- Neutralised his Ice Oni virus on the Live Floor
- Drake
- Traitor that he directly tried to kill
- He presumably still wants to kill him
Queen is actually in a battle with another Strawhat and an ally. Queen actually has much deeper grudges against other characters.
The throw away Germa line? It's insignificant in comparison.
This does not help your argument at all. Despite getting low diffed by Ulti, Nami is going to defeat her.
Hell, Ulti treated Nami far worse than King Sanji, and Nami is going to beat her. There is no credible argument that King is too strong for Sanji — not when Nami is defeating someone with a much larger combat ability gap.
On thread: there's no reason Sanji vs King can't happen. It would need to be motivated by story reasons though.
It’s not very important to me. Drake and Queen could have started fighting ages ago if this was the way things were going to go, instead him and Apoo have been going at each other for a very long time now. Drake’s use in Wano just doesn’t suggest that he’s going to be the one to beat one of Kaido’s three top men, he’s been very much just fighting along in the background.
On the other hand, Marco has been a massive deal ever since he showed up on Wano, getting him there was a plot point way back on Zou and he’s a fan favourite. Compare how Marco and Drake have been used since the raid started, ask “which one if these seems more built up to be a main figure in the alliance who defeats a Calamity“ and there’s only one answer- Marco. One of them will have to lose out since Sanji’s getting a Calamity and Jack’s getting dealt with separately, and that someone is always going to be Drake. Drake might be backup, but he’s not the main event.
Chopper can help out or he can go fight Perospero, but he’s not really relevant to this. He’s only going to be backup in a fight against someone as strong as Queen, not the main figure. Like Killer on the roof.
Nobody is soloing a fully healthy Queen cause he’s already been kicked around the place a couple of times by Marco.
No it isn’t. It is an absolutely gigantic Chekhov’s Gun yet to be fired. We already know everything about Queen and Drake’s relationship that we need to know- Drake is a traitor, so Queen wants him dead. That’s the long and short of that plotline. It doesn’t really need to be dwelt on anymore than Drake and Who’s Who need to interact again.
But when a main villain is musing about how he needs to defeat our heroes, looks directly at a picture at one of them and talks about how he knew his father- that is a huge deal. The author’s basically going around those panels with bright red ink saying “FUTURE INTERACTION HERE”.
Especially since this is coming off an arc where Sanji’s relationship with his family, and in particular his fathers- birth and chosen- was so important. Sanji repudiating Judge was one of the biggest factors of WCI. The dramatic conclusion of Sanji and Judge’s relationship was Sanji screaming inJudge’s face to never call him his father again, because the only person who can truly be considered Sanji’s father is Zeff. Sanji’s then went on to be pissed off at any mention of him being a Vinsmoke.
It’s then no coincidence that the very next arc- which unlike WCI is a great big fighting one- one of the strongest villains is doing the thing that really, really pisses Sanji off- calling Judge his father. And that villain was talking about this in the context of enemies he wants to defeat. Because, in Sanji’s head, saying that Judge is Sanji’s father is insulting not to Sanji, but to Zeff. And Zeff is the person Sanji loves the most in the world.
Now that‘s a significant plotline that’s yet to be touched on. We’re talking about something that ties into the very core of one of our main characters. Drake’s nothing compared to that. Sanji’s interaction with King is nothing compared to that- the two had a brief fight ages ago and haven’t cared about each other since. Sanji needs to beat someone strong, and he needs to interact with Queen- those two factors are going to intertwine.
On the other hand, Marco has been a massive deal ever since he showed up on Wano, getting him there was a plot point way back on Zou and he’s a fan favourite. Compare how Marco and Drake have been used since the raid started, ask “which one if these seems more built up to be a main figure in the alliance who defeats a Calamity“ and there’s only one answer- Marco. One of them will have to lose out since Sanji’s getting a Calamity and Jack’s getting dealt with separately, and that someone is always going to be Drake. Drake might be backup, but he’s not the main event.
Chopper can help out or he can go fight Perospero, but he’s not really relevant to this. He’s only going to be backup in a fight against someone as strong as Queen, not the main figure. Like Killer on the roof.
Nobody is soloing a fully healthy Queen cause he’s already been kicked around the place a couple of times by Marco.
No it isn’t. It is an absolutely gigantic Chekhov’s Gun yet to be fired. We already know everything about Queen and Drake’s relationship that we need to know- Drake is a traitor, so Queen wants him dead. That’s the long and short of that plotline. It doesn’t really need to be dwelt on anymore than Drake and Who’s Who need to interact again.
But when a main villain is musing about how he needs to defeat our heroes, looks directly at a picture at one of them and talks about how he knew his father- that is a huge deal. The author’s basically going around those panels with bright red ink saying “FUTURE INTERACTION HERE”.
Especially since this is coming off an arc where Sanji’s relationship with his family, and in particular his fathers- birth and chosen- was so important. Sanji repudiating Judge was one of the biggest factors of WCI. The dramatic conclusion of Sanji and Judge’s relationship was Sanji screaming inJudge’s face to never call him his father again, because the only person who can truly be considered Sanji’s father is Zeff. Sanji’s then went on to be pissed off at any mention of him being a Vinsmoke.
It’s then no coincidence that the very next arc- which unlike WCI is a great big fighting one- one of the strongest villains is doing the thing that really, really pisses Sanji off- calling Judge his father. And that villain was talking about this in the context of enemies he wants to defeat. Because, in Sanji’s head, saying that Judge is Sanji’s father is insulting not to Sanji, but to Zeff. And Zeff is the person Sanji loves the most in the world.
Now that‘s a significant plotline that’s yet to be touched on. We’re talking about something that ties into the very core of one of our main characters. Drake’s nothing compared to that. Sanji’s interaction with King is nothing compared to that- the two had a brief fight ages ago and haven’t cared about each other since. Sanji needs to beat someone strong, and he needs to interact with Queen- those two factors are going to intertwine.
Alright, this is convincing to me.
I am currently leaning towards Sanji and Chopper vs Queen now.
@Ten Yaksha Blother.
I am currently leaning towards Sanji and Chopper vs Queen now.
@Ten Yaksha Blother.
I think a lot of Zoro folk here are accepting Sanji vs King to coax the Sanji fans. Plot doesn’t demand it. It’s not happening. Since when has Sanji taken a serious plot relevant villain.
Sanji is saving Marco from Perospero.
Sanji vs Perospero.
Sanji is saving Chopper from Queen.
Sanji vs Queen
Sanji is fighting Kanjuro maybe.
Sanji is saving Marco from Perospero.
Sanji vs Perospero.
Sanji is saving Chopper from Queen.
Sanji vs Queen
Sanji is fighting Kanjuro maybe.
I can’t see Marco being the one to beat King because it goes against the narrative of the new generation being the key players here if Marco is the one to beat the 3rd strongest enemy. Also, look at who the other executives are fighting:
P1: a SH
Ulti: a SH
Sasaki: a SH
Black Maria: a SH
WsW: a SH
Jack: Inu has no chance of winning, so someone else will finish him off. The most likely candidate is Yamato, a nearly guaranteed SH.
Queen: a SH (whether it is Sanji or Chopper)
King: Marco (according to you)
One of these things is not like the others.
I think King, Queen, and maybe Perospero will exhaust Marco, and Marco will use his remaining stamina to heal the Rooftop Supernova when they inevitably get beaten (which is nearly guaranteed since Zoro is fucked up now, Luffy is probably fucked up after getting smashed by Hybrid Kaido, and the other 3 don’t really stand much of a chance on their own
P1: a SH
Ulti: a SH
Sasaki: a SH
Black Maria: a SH
WsW: a SH
Jack: Inu has no chance of winning, so someone else will finish him off. The most likely candidate is Yamato, a nearly guaranteed SH.
Queen: a SH (whether it is Sanji or Chopper)
King: Marco (according to you)
One of these things is not like the others.
I think King, Queen, and maybe Perospero will exhaust Marco, and Marco will use his remaining stamina to heal the Rooftop Supernova when they inevitably get beaten (which is nearly guaranteed since Zoro is fucked up now, Luffy is probably fucked up after getting smashed by Hybrid Kaido, and the other 3 don’t really stand much of a chance on their own
Wyper went against the theme of Strawhats beating Enel’s priests, Kyros went against Strawhats and Grand Fleet members. One Beast Pirate being beaten by Marco doesn’t change the overall idea of the Strawhats beating the Beast Pirates.
And I think the idea of how important that narrative is is mostly overstated. Jinbei might be in a new generation pirate crew, but as a pirate himself he’s older and more experienced than most of the Beast Pirates. If Yamato beats Jack she’s just as much a Beast Pirate as he is- she’s been in the crew even longer than him, regardless of if she becomes a Strawhat. And if Inu does beat him- and there’s no real reason he shouldn’t, it’s been built up since Zou- then we’ve got a non-Strawhat, former Whitebeard and Roger Purate beating a Beast Pirate, which is the furthest thing from a new generation figure I can think of.
Drake doesn’t fit the pattern either because he’s not a pirate, he’s a Marine.
Marco‘s healing is ineffective on others.
And I think the idea of how important that narrative is is mostly overstated. Jinbei might be in a new generation pirate crew, but as a pirate himself he’s older and more experienced than most of the Beast Pirates. If Yamato beats Jack she’s just as much a Beast Pirate as he is- she’s been in the crew even longer than him, regardless of if she becomes a Strawhat. And if Inu does beat him- and there’s no real reason he shouldn’t, it’s been built up since Zou- then we’ve got a non-Strawhat, former Whitebeard and Roger Purate beating a Beast Pirate, which is the furthest thing from a new generation figure I can think of.
Drake doesn’t fit the pattern either because he’s not a pirate, he’s a Marine.
Marco‘s healing is ineffective on others.
Wyper went against the theme of Strawhats beating Enel’s priests, Kyros went against Strawhats and Grand Fleet members. One Beast Pirate being beaten by Marco doesn’t change the overall idea of the Strawhats beating the Beast Pirates.
And I think the idea of how important that narrative is is mostly overstated. Jinbei might be in a new generation pirate crew, but as a pirate himself he’s older and more experienced than most of the Beast Pirates. If Yamato beats Jack she’s just as much a Beast Pirate as he is- she’s been in the crew even longer than him, regardless of if she becomes a Strawhat. And if Inu does beat him- and there’s no real reason he shouldn’t, it’s been built up since Zou- then we’ve got a non-Strawhat, former Whitebeard and Roger Purate beating a Beast Pirate, which is the furthest thing from a new generation figure I can think of.
Drake doesn’t fit the pattern either because he’s not a pirate, he’s a Marine.
Marco‘s healing is ineffective on others.
And I think the idea of how important that narrative is is mostly overstated. Jinbei might be in a new generation pirate crew, but as a pirate himself he’s older and more experienced than most of the Beast Pirates. If Yamato beats Jack she’s just as much a Beast Pirate as he is- she’s been in the crew even longer than him, regardless of if she becomes a Strawhat. And if Inu does beat him- and there’s no real reason he shouldn’t, it’s been built up since Zou- then we’ve got a non-Strawhat, former Whitebeard and Roger Purate beating a Beast Pirate, which is the furthest thing from a new generation figure I can think of.
Drake doesn’t fit the pattern either because he’s not a pirate, he’s a Marine.
Marco‘s healing is ineffective on others.
Yamato beating a BP would be like Franky beating a CP9 agent. Sure they technically weren’t SHs when they beat the enemy, but they essentially were SHs for all intents and purposes since them joining the crew was obvious by then. Inu has approximately a 0.000000001% chance of beating Jack. If Neko was there too with him, I’d think that they have a good shot, but Inu alone? Not happening.
Marco’s fighting as a representative of the pirates Oden befriended in his travels. He and Oden were part of the same ‘family’, Whitebeard’s crew, that’s strong enough narrative reason for him to win. Marco was crying a few chapters ago thinking about the promise he made with Ace to one day free Wano, what more does he need? He can’t go to the Kaido fight- where the next gen theme really is important, given Oden’s prediction about it and because it is the main fight- but there’s no problem with him contributing by beating the next best thing, King.
And it’s inconsistent to say that Marco doesn’t have a strong enough narative reason to beat King, while at the same time saying that Inu has no chance of beating Jack, given the buildup that fight has from Zou. Certainly far more than the so-far non-existent buildup for Yamato vs Jack, with the only person Yamato showing any interest in fighting being her father. We don’t know for what purpose Neko has been separated from the fight for, but that’s no real reason to think that Inu has to fail.
And it’s inconsistent to say that Marco doesn’t have a strong enough narative reason to beat King, while at the same time saying that Inu has no chance of beating Jack, given the buildup that fight has from Zou. Certainly far more than the so-far non-existent buildup for Yamato vs Jack, with the only person Yamato showing any interest in fighting being her father. We don’t know for what purpose Neko has been separated from the fight for, but that’s no real reason to think that Inu has to fail.