Questions & Mysteries M3 - Shattered ... ? ?
- Thread starter Rukusho
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On the bolded bit fair enuff I must've missed that. Also maybe our definitions of tanking are different, but imo tanking doesn't mean taking an attack without damage. I acknowledge that Ulti took significant damage from that attack but she was still very much fit for battle.
Also I don't see how you can put Yamato significantly above Ulti if what was most likely one her higher end attacks, potentially even her strongest attack in "Raimei Hakei" was unable to put Ulti down even with her guard down. Also there was no fight between Yamato and Ulti, Ulti was fighting Luffy and Yamato caught her off guard with a powerful attack.
Also the Yamato/Page One situation is not comparable. Luffy used a combination of his insane speed and G3 on Page One (i.e. Luffy used sheer speed to blind side Page One and caught him straight on the Jaw in his least mobile Zoan form whereas he attacked Yamato directly from the front). Still even with no guard Page One took that attack to the Jaw like a champ.
Don't get me wrong Yamato parrying Luffy's EG type attack and then the new style armamnet attack with a shield IIRC are good feats, but I don't think you can make a direct comparison of that with Page One and those feats imo do not clearly establish her above Sanji. Sanji was able to block a named attack from a Yonkou WCI with Luffy without his Raid Suit PU and that attack should be a lot stronger than what ever Luffy dished out to Yamato.
Also I don't see how you can put Yamato significantly above Ulti if what was most likely one her higher end attacks, potentially even her strongest attack in "Raimei Hakei" was unable to put Ulti down even with her guard down. Also there was no fight between Yamato and Ulti, Ulti was fighting Luffy and Yamato caught her off guard with a powerful attack.
Also the Yamato/Page One situation is not comparable. Luffy used a combination of his insane speed and G3 on Page One (i.e. Luffy used sheer speed to blind side Page One and caught him straight on the Jaw in his least mobile Zoan form whereas he attacked Yamato directly from the front). Still even with no guard Page One took that attack to the Jaw like a champ.
Don't get me wrong Yamato parrying Luffy's EG type attack and then the new style armamnet attack with a shield IIRC are good feats, but I don't think you can make a direct comparison of that with Page One and those feats imo do not clearly establish her above Sanji. Sanji was able to block a named attack from a Yonkou WCI with Luffy without his Raid Suit PU and that attack should be a lot stronger than what ever Luffy dished out to Yamato.
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How do you want it to be shown ? By direct comparison?
I think their Portrayals are quite clear cut that in strength, one piece world places Jinbei above Sanji.
How does bounty indicate superiority if Jinbei when they aren't in the same crew? Your same point can be used against you here by stating that it doesn't show any relation to Jinbei.
But that regardless, the Dukes do not have the hype of Jinbei so Jack drawing with them isn't a case of superior portrayal. Would you say that Luffy holds the Dukes highly than he does Jinbei?
Blood loss is not an endurance cap though. I don't even know how you would use that to measure endurance. Endurance is about the amount of damage one can take and still keep going. the bite was the only damage Luffy took.
Luffy didn't go through anything worse between FI and DR? If so you can provide an instance.
Also the point was about equating Sanji's endurance to Jinbei's endurance just from a single punch those characters took....which is too shallow and argument.
Such an argument does not work. Just because chopper did doesn't mean Sanji can.
You would be saying that the BM slap is weaker than the Vergo kick which did damage to Sanji which would be completely wrong.
If that was the case, how did Brook end up behind BM with Zeus cut in half when BM was in the mid air?
Luffy took damage from the athlete kick.
I'm using the blocking to measure the AP of the attack.
The attack which stunned Sanji is far weaker than a manga punch. And Jinbei took 3 of those. 1 was the one he took with his palm, the other went through his chest when he was carrying Luffy. So from an endurance standpoint, it is a non contest.
Well we shall see
I think their Portrayals are quite clear cut that in strength, one piece world places Jinbei above Sanji.
How does bounty indicate superiority if Jinbei when they aren't in the same crew? Your same point can be used against you here by stating that it doesn't show any relation to Jinbei.
But that regardless, the Dukes do not have the hype of Jinbei so Jack drawing with them isn't a case of superior portrayal. Would you say that Luffy holds the Dukes highly than he does Jinbei?
Blood loss is not an endurance cap though. I don't even know how you would use that to measure endurance. Endurance is about the amount of damage one can take and still keep going. the bite was the only damage Luffy took.
Luffy didn't go through anything worse between FI and DR? If so you can provide an instance.
Also the point was about equating Sanji's endurance to Jinbei's endurance just from a single punch those characters took....which is too shallow and argument.
Such an argument does not work. Just because chopper did doesn't mean Sanji can.
You would be saying that the BM slap is weaker than the Vergo kick which did damage to Sanji which would be completely wrong.
If that was the case, how did Brook end up behind BM with Zeus cut in half when BM was in the mid air?
Luffy took damage from the athlete kick.
I'm using the blocking to measure the AP of the attack.
The attack which stunned Sanji is far weaker than a manga punch. And Jinbei took 3 of those. 1 was the one he took with his palm, the other went through his chest when he was carrying Luffy. So from an endurance standpoint, it is a non contest.
Well we shall see
Direct or Indirect comparison is fine regardless. The warlord title is awarded based on notoriety(Not saying strength doesn't matter but it isn't the most important aspect of the warlord title). The one piece world would also probably think Moriah and Crocodile are stronger than Sanji that doesn't necessarily make it true. It's kinda like in the beginning Zoro was always mistaken as the captain even though Luffy was easily on the same level and that's my point. Sanji may or may not have the notoriety to be considered a warlord but from a strength perspective he would qualify. However he is already part of someone elses crew so the shicibukai title would be awarded to his captain regardless of his strength. The bounty part wasn't the main part of my argument but bounty is actually a better indicator of strength than just being a warlord. Yes exceptions exist but again bounty has been used time and time again to highlight what strength a person is at. It's all about the context I do not believe that is the same thing as Jine's warlord title.
The Duke definitely do have that hype. Your mistaking relevance with hype. The dukes where able to hold their own against Jack for half a day without any assistance. G2/G3 Luffy was swiftly swept aside by Cracker and even his first usage of G4 was not enough to take down Cracker. Someone Like Jack is at the very least comparable to that Cracker Soldier and the same Luffy was shown to be outclassed yet was not depicted in the same light against Jinbe. It should really put thing into perspective that the feat the Dukes pulled off was extremely insane when you look at Luffy's performance against Cracker.
Why would blood loss not be a measurement of endurance when the blood loss itself is a result of damage dealt? Endurance is the ability to endure an unpleasant or difficult process or situation without giving way. Persevering in spite of losing blood is the definition of endurance. Jinbe can have better endurance than Sanji however that is a indirect comparison of them sustaining similar damage from identical attacks. How can that not be used as an instances to compare their endurance/durability towards another?
True but Sanji has would have the skill set to block it I believe. Why can't that Specific kick be stronger than the slap? Given the fact that every other kick that Vergo used Sanji was able to counter it just fine why wouldn't it be possible for that kick to be stronger than Big moms Slap? Would that not be like saying the kick Sanji used to break the pacifista neck at the start of the time-skip would have no effect on Daz bones cause he blocked Mihawk's slash?
Jinbe hand took the brunt of the damage. I don't want to come off as I'm downplaying as it is impressive and I don't think Sanji would have been able to stop it but it's kinda like Law having his hand cut off. The hand is what takes most of the impact not the body itself and the comparison I make with him and Sanji is something which happens after that ordeal so to an extent it is a comparison of both's abilities.
The Duke definitely do have that hype. Your mistaking relevance with hype. The dukes where able to hold their own against Jack for half a day without any assistance. G2/G3 Luffy was swiftly swept aside by Cracker and even his first usage of G4 was not enough to take down Cracker. Someone Like Jack is at the very least comparable to that Cracker Soldier and the same Luffy was shown to be outclassed yet was not depicted in the same light against Jinbe. It should really put thing into perspective that the feat the Dukes pulled off was extremely insane when you look at Luffy's performance against Cracker.
Why would blood loss not be a measurement of endurance when the blood loss itself is a result of damage dealt? Endurance is the ability to endure an unpleasant or difficult process or situation without giving way. Persevering in spite of losing blood is the definition of endurance. Jinbe can have better endurance than Sanji however that is a indirect comparison of them sustaining similar damage from identical attacks. How can that not be used as an instances to compare their endurance/durability towards another?
True but Sanji has would have the skill set to block it I believe. Why can't that Specific kick be stronger than the slap? Given the fact that every other kick that Vergo used Sanji was able to counter it just fine why wouldn't it be possible for that kick to be stronger than Big moms Slap? Would that not be like saying the kick Sanji used to break the pacifista neck at the start of the time-skip would have no effect on Daz bones cause he blocked Mihawk's slash?
Jinbe hand took the brunt of the damage. I don't want to come off as I'm downplaying as it is impressive and I don't think Sanji would have been able to stop it but it's kinda like Law having his hand cut off. The hand is what takes most of the impact not the body itself and the comparison I make with him and Sanji is something which happens after that ordeal so to an extent it is a comparison of both's abilities.
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