Future Events Mihawk and the ultimate swordsmanship challenge

Bogard

It's over, get over it
.
#1
As the title says, i decided to focus this topic on Mihawk and the ultimate swordsmanship challenge. Before talking about it though, i'd remind some previous events Oda focused in his manga.

Foreshadows around diamond's durability

> At the end of the Zoro vs Daz Bones battle where Zoro ultimately managed to cut through steel, Daz Bones hinted at a future challenge(cutting diamond)

> Fast forward in Enies Lobby, Oda once again hyped the diamond durability by using it as a reference to seastone, and we know even top tiers like Big Mom begged for seastone cuffs to be removed, not to mention Shiki literally having to sacrifice his legs


> Then later on in Marineford, Oda drew a parallel between Mihawk's long range attack and Jozu's diamond defense

That moment didn't really gave us a clear answer though, if Mihawk can actually cut diamond or not, for the simple reason that Mihawk's attack wasn't aimed at Jozu, but Whitebeard and it'd been mentioned that the pinacle of swordsmanship is to cut what you wants to cut depending on it's breath

And thus with Mihawk not aiming at cutting diamond at that point, but rather flesh(Whitebeard), it left it open if he could open it or not, especially since not only long range attacks are weaker than close range attacks in swordsmanship, but they could amplified by hardening(and in devil fruit users's case like Jozu, it even allows you to hit the real body)

> Later on, during Zou, Oda foreshadowed diamond's durability once again through Pekoms, who was surprised someone as carefree as Luffy didn't react to it's durability

This to say then, that Oda at multiple occasions already hyped and foreshadowed the diamond toughness as a great challenge

Potential challenges

But when exactly we'd see that challenge ? :zorothink:

> There had been theories that Shiryu would eat Jozu's diamon devil fruit as a challenge against Mihawk, but Oda decided to give him the suke suke no mi(invisibility df) instead, rendering that possibility null

So now the question is, what is the point in Oda hyping the diamond durability if we never saw it as a challenge in the future ? And Oda isn't the kind of author who makes foreshadows for nothing. For this reason then, i do think the diamond challenge will come back to fruction at one point.

When exactly is unclear, but there has been another weapon that Oda hyped, yet we still don't know what it is exactly. That weapon is SSG, which Fujitora hyped to be so strong, they didn't need the Shichibukais anymore to turn the balance against the emperors


With Mihawk facing the marines at this point


And thus it could be a perfect way for Oda to test out Vegapunk's SSG weapon, and the weapon's properties as mentioned are unknown, but it's possible that they could be composed of diamond material, and thus with Oda using that opportunity to test out Mihawk, and the pinnacle of swordsmanship challenge at the same time.

Thanks for reading :moonwalk:
 
#4
It's interesting how you pointed out Mr.1 comment on Diamond but left out Zoro's reply
Also we already have Kaido as the guy with Toughest Skin, he is the Ultimate Challenge, not Diamond

Actually all the Examples you showed demonstrate how Diamond is something common in One Piece
Oda literally gave Diamond Shell to Pekoms who is not really a Major Character

Also Mihawk really wants someone who can challenge him, so if he was unable to cut Diamond, he would have gained interested in Jozu, but he completely ignored him during the whole War

If Oda really wanted to foreshadow Diamond being important EOS, he would have hinted at it with a Comment from Mihawk, but no, he didn't say anything

Ultimate Swordsman = Top Sword + Top CoA + Top Swordsmanship + Top Physical Stats
Zoro have Top Swords & Top Swordsmanship, he lacks the other two & then he will be able to fight Mihawk
 
#5
It's interesting how you pointed out Mr.1 comment on Diamond but left out Zoro's reply
Zoro's reply to Mr. 1 doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, other than that was his sentiment at the time. What reason would he have to cut diamond? None, and therefore, in his mind it would have been a waste to do so. Zoro never showed any interest in wanting to be able to cut steel until a scenario presented itself, in which, he had no choice but to be able to do so. Either learn to cut steel, or die. Those were his options. The same principle applies to cutting Diamond. It's completely different now with the inclusion of Seastone which is as hard as Diamond, and Haki, which has the potential to be just as hard, if not harder. If Oda's going to have Zoro make a proclamation like "There is nothing I can't cut", then it's a safe bet that he's going to make good on proving it.
 
#6
And thus with Mihawk not aiming at cutting diamond at that point, but rather flesh(Whitebeard), it left it open if he could open it or not, especially since not only long range attacks are weaker than close range attacks in swordsmanship, but they could amplified by hardening(and in devil fruit users's case like Jozu, it even allows you to hit the real body)
I don't think that's a good argument as in Marineford only, Mihawk tried to cut Luffy (flesh) with an attack but instead cut an entire iceberg behind him which he shouldn't have.
 

Bogard

It's over, get over it
.
#9
It's interesting how you pointed out Mr.1 comment on Diamond but left out Zoro's reply
Because
- Zoro isn't the focus of the thread as the title says itself
- The focus is around the foreshadow around diamond's durability as the bold statement covering that part suggested
Also we already have Kaido as the guy with Toughest Skin, he is the Ultimate Challenge, not Diamond
No he isn't. We already saw Oden leaving him a permanent scar in one attack, hell a swordsman on the level of Okiku could literally pierce through Kaido's skin just because of Oden's will. On the other hand, even top tiers never managed to break seastone, with Shiki literally having to severe his legs to escape, and diamond is used as a reference to seastone's durability(so could potentially even be harder). Diamond has better durability hype than Kaido's skin, especially since unlike Kaido's skin, diamond has yet to be damaged in the manga

Furthermore, none of the swordsmen who damaged Kaido's skin even had a black blade, which is implied to be extremely hard to forge, and thus making the challenge of bypassing Kaido's skin irrelevant compared to that.
Actually all the Examples you showed demonstrate how Diamond is something common in One Piece
Oda literally gave Diamond Shell to Pekoms who is not really a Major Character
There has literally only been only 2 things that have been compared to diamond in the manga, seastone and Pekoms' turtle shell(
that's not something that is common), with the former literally being undamaged even by top tiers. Pekoms' relevancy in the manga is irrelevant as well, the focus Oda wanted to emphasize on was the durability of his shell compared to diamond as a way to once again use diamond as a measuring stick in terms of durability, hence his shock at Luffy's carefree attitude when revealing it, that was the point.

If Oda really wanted to foreshadow Diamond being important EOS, he would have hinted at it with a Comment from Mihawk, but no, he didn't say anything
Mihawk is a stoic character in the first place. He didn't even react when Ace was mentioned to be Roger's son. Doesn't mean that news didn't shock everyone else who heard it. So Mihawk's reaction at that point was a character trait, which is literally irrelevant compared to the point Oda wanted to focus on, which was Jozu's diamond devil fruit stopping the "world most powerful sword slash", which automatically portrayed diamond as a challenge to swordsmanship from that very instance
 
#12
Zoro never showed any interest in wanting to be able to cut steel until a scenario presented itself, in which, he had no choice but to be able to do so.
Actually that is wrong since the flashback shows that Zoro was interested in cutting steel since he was a child
Post automatically merged:

No he isn't. We already saw Oden leaving him a permanent scar in one attack, hell a swordsman on the level of Okiku could literally pierce through Kaido's skin just because of Oden's will. On the other hand, even top tiers never managed to break seastone, with Shiki literally having to severe his legs to escape, and diamond is used as a reference to seastone's durability(so could potentially even be harder). Diamond has better durability hype than Kaido's skin, especially since unlike Kaido's skin, diamond has yet to be damaged in the manga
Well Oden was able to cut Poneglyph so this point doesn't really invalidate his argument of Kaido being the toughest.
 
Last edited:

Bogard

It's over, get over it
.
#14
Well Oden was able to cut seastone so this point doesn't really invalidate his argument of Kaido being the toughest.
Panel ?
Alright then, Oden can cut Kaido but he can't cut Jozu
Great
Irrelevant comparison.
- Jozu may have a diamond devil fruit, but haki allows you to damage the real body of a devil fruit user, so a haki user may be able to hurt Jozu's real body without being able to break the diamond itself
- Even if he couldn't, we literally saw on panel the same Oden capable to cut Kaido failing to break Bartolomeo's barrier. Devil fruit durability is a thing
 

Bogard

It's over, get over it
.
#16
We cant they just admit they're agenda
"ZoRo NeVeR WaNTeD to CuT SteeL"
Except he did as a child.
"DaZ BoNeS SaiD He WoUlD CuT DiAmoND NexT"
Except Zoro in the very next panel said it would be a waste
Once again, Zoro isn't the focus of the thread. What Zoro thinks of cutting diamond is literally irrelevant to what Mihawk could think of cutting diamond
 
#18
Alright then, Oden can cut Kaido but he can't cut Jozu
Great
Kaido was cut by Okiku... So much for being the ultimate challenge... Just because he's a top tier doesn't mean he's necessarily the best. Katakuri has better observation than him for example. Don't see why diamond being more durable than Kaido should be a problem.
 
#19
Irrelevant comparison.
- Jozu may have a diamond devil fruit, but haki allows you to damage the real body of a devil fruit user, so a haki user may be able to hurt Jozu's real body without being able to break the diamond itself
- Even if he couldn't, we literally saw on panel the same Oden capable to cut Kaido failing to break Bartolomeo's barrier. Devil fruit durability is a thing
What you guys are failing to understand is that Zoro didn't "Just" learn to cut Iron
Zoro didn't "Learn to Cut Iron", that is a lacking statement because it implies Zoro can only cut Iron
Zoro learned to cut & not cut what he wants, which includes much much more than just Iron

When Zoro remembered Breath of All Things & started feeling it, nothing in him changed, except that he can now feel the Breath of something & can freely choose what to cut

This new Knowledge completely turned Zoro from being unable to give Daz Bones even a single Scratch to one-shotting him, which means Zoro never lacked Power or Technique, he simply lacked the Ability to ignore Material Durability

And Zoro didn't just learn to cut Daz Bones, after that he can cut Normal Iron too which further proves my point

So for a Swordsman to be able to cut Diamond, he needs to have "Breath of All Things", so it doesn't matter how strong you're, you need to apply "Breath Technique" to be able to cut something, as proven when even Mihawk didn't cut Daz Bones because he was attacking Luffy, but afterwards he one-shotted him

Saying Ultimate Swordsmanship Challenge is cutting Diamond means even with "Breath of All Things", you cannot cut Diamond which makes the whole concept of "Breath of All Things "pointless, because apparently you just need to attack harder which we know doesn't work!!

Zoro's Attacks were very powerful against Daz Bones, same for Mihawk, but without "Breath", they are useless completely.
And this "Breath" doesn't make the Attack stronger, it simply makes it "Work"

This is why Zoro replied to Mr.1 like that, because it doesn't matter anymore, when Zoro learned the Breath, cutting Hard Materials isn't a Challenge anymore

For example Big Mom was compared to an Iron Balloon & not Diamond, does that mean Alabasta Zoro can hurt her?
Stop focusing on these Materials

Poneglyphs were stated to be indestructible, to explain why they are preserved, don't think much about it
 
#20
Ultimate Swordsman = Top Sword + Top CoA + Top Swordsmanship + Top Physical Stats
Zoro have Top Swords & Top Swordsmanship, he lacks the other two & then he will be able to fight Mihawk
Correct. There is a misconception that Zoro will demonstrate his readiness to fight Mihawk by cutting something in dramatic fashion. In reality, swordsmanship works like any other fighting style; a swordsman proves his strength by beating a high tier opponent and so on. As demonstrated by the Scabbards vs Kaido, simply having Ryuou and cutting technique isn’t enough. Just as Luffy, Sanji and Jinbe, Zoro needs to bring his other stats up to par with the top tiers. Is he going to surpass Mihawk’s former rival Shanks by having a cutting competition? No. Then what’s all this focus on cutting shit?
 
Top