Character Discussion Mihawk is not Zoro (and vice versa); Why all the theorists get it wrong

Where will Mihawk and Zoro have their final duel?


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Finalbeta

Hero of Albion
#42
What's left for Mihawk then? BB pirates pick him up? or marines just gonna keep chasing him
What's left for Mihawk?

First of all WSS is Zoro's final goal, this notion allegedly entails a lot of significance for what it regards the way his story role shall proceed. I mean why is he not meant to be Zoro's final opponent?

The conjecture of Shiryu killing him and Zoro avenging Mihawk looks extensively weak, it's less weak to say that Zoro v Mihawk would not happen at all and yet given the huge portrayal between the two it would constitute quite the bad writing.
 
#44
A lot of OP theorists come up with Mihawk/Shanks theories that, simply put, make no sense whatsoever. For example, Morj, who many people in the community inexplicably see as a reliable theorist, believes that Mihawk will fight Zoro at Elbaf while Luffy and the Straw Hats face Shanks and the Red Haired Pirates in a Davy Back AT THE SAME TIME. This obviously shits on Zoro's dream and is brain dead in the sense that there is 0 chance of Luffy winning a Davy Back without Zoro. This is also entirely inconsistent with Mihawk's character. The man has no ties to Elbaf and has no reason to be there. There is also no reason why Zoro would have his final duel there of all places since it's more arguably Big Mom or Shanks' arc.

The main reason for these illogical theories is that most people see Zoro and Luffy's relationship as a direct parallel to Mihawk and Shanks. Not only is this a grave misunderstanding of all 4 characters, this makes the assumption that Zoro and Mihawk are, for some reason, essentially the same character. They are not, and their relationships with other characters are based on fundamentally different principles.

Zoro's Relationship With Luffy
  • Luffy is Zoro's Captain
  • Zoro was willing to throw away his ambition and dream for Luffy's
  • Zoro places Luffy's life in higher regard than his own
  • Zoro is Luffy's Partner
  • Zoro's relationship with Luffy is that of captain-vice captain.

Mihawk's Relationship With Shanks
  • Shanks is Mihawk's Rival
  • Mihawk did not abandon his ambition for Shanks
  • Mihawk cares about Shanks, but there's no evidence he would go so far as to lay down his life for Shanks
  • Mihawk and Shanks are not, to our knowledge, formally allied. Mihawk would never become Shanks' subordinate given that he's searching for a rival that's stronger than Shanks
  • Mihawk and Shanks have a friendship based on friendly rivalry, similar to Roger's friendship with Garp

Differences Between Mihawk's Relationship with Zoro and Shanks' Relationship With Luffy
  • Mihawk's Relationship With Zoro
  • Zoro's ambition is to surpass Mihawk and become the new World's Strongest Swordsman.
  • His promise to Kuina is Zoro's greatest motivation to become the World's Strongest Swordsman. Mihawk is just the current bearer of that title.
  • Mihawk was neither and idol nor role model to Zoro. He's just the person Zoro needs to beat to become the strongest.
  • Zoro doesn't directly desire to earn Mihawk's respect and recognition, but instead to best him in combat.
  • Mihawk looks at Zoro as a potential new worthy rival. He's waiting for the appearance of the swordsman that surpasses Shanks, and he hopes that Zoro might be that Swordsman.

Shanks' Relationship With Luffy
  • Luffy seeks to become the Pirate King (a title only Roger attained).
  • Shanks was Luffy's inspiration to become a Pirate.
  • Shanks was Luffy's idol and role model.
  • Luffy seeks Shanks' respect and recognition (he'll meet up with Shanks again after gathering a crew that's even better than his).
  • This is symbolised by Luffy returning his Strawhat to Shanks after becoming a Great Pirate.
  • Shanks bet on Luffy and gave up his arm for him. He has high hopes for Luffy as the successor to Roger. He doesn't hope for Luffy to become a new combat rival for him.

People theorising that Mihawk will join Shanks to fight BB (why tho) and that he will have a major role in the Elbaf arc aren't actually thinking critically about the character. They're just shoehorning him into their headcanons involving Shanks and crafting flimsy reasons for Mihawk to be there as well. Mihawk is not Zoro - where Zoro focuses on whatever problem he's dealing with in the moment, Mihawk is looking to the future, to the implications surrounding current events such as Reverie and planning his next move. While Zoro is undyingly loyal and welcomes suffering and hardship, Mihawk sees even a nick on one's blade as a symbol of disgrace. The two characters are extremely different, and trying to make them the same based on hurr durr sword hurr are misinterpreting both characters entirely.

Why would shanks be a Davy back fight when he has zero connections to it and blackbeard has like a ton. Clearly blackbeard will be the Davy back
 
#46
???
Stop making this about power levels lol.

Luffy becomes Pk on Raftel. Final war is after that. Mihawk and Zoro fighting will come after because Zoro’s goals come secondary to his captains.

It’s not about one being stronger than the other.
It’s not about power levels

It’s about the journey.

the road to pirate king is meant to be harder then road to strongest swordsman
[automerge]1618430662[/automerge]
Says who? Oda or you? :yasu:
The manga which says luffys goal is harder which means it has to come before
[automerge]1618430716[/automerge]
When Brook meets Laboon after Luffy becomes PK, then it will be canon that meeting Laboon is harder than becoming PK
Are you dumb or hard headed?

Mihawk himself said luffy becoming pirate king is harder then Zoros goal which means it’s meant to come after
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
#47
It’s not about power levels

It’s about the journey.

the road to pirate king is meant to be harder then road to strongest swordsman
[automerge]1618430662[/automerge]


The manga which says luffys goal is harder which means it has to come before
[automerge]1618430716[/automerge]


Are you dumb or hard headed?

Mihawk himself said luffy becoming pirate king is harder then Zoros goal which means it’s meant to come after
Nothing Roger did to become pk was harder than beating mihawk

He stole a copy from meme something Brook did

Begged his rival for his crew member

And everything fell into his lap beating NO ONE on the way.
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
#50
yes ... but winning God Valley is winning a world war, a god tier war

pretty sure that was much harder than beating Mihawk
1. We don't know the circumstances on how he won there.

2. Had nothing to do with him actually becoming pk.

Roger could have solod the rox crew at neg diff

If wb didn't crash on wano Roger would never be pk.
 

Gol D. Roger

ȶɦɛ քɨʀǟȶɛ ӄɨռɢ
#51
They send fodders to capture big shots,
but this time its serious they are sending vice admirals and the ssg with buster calls
So if they have to a admiral will be sent, the warlords are getting capture now
Yeah the entire WG with all their intelligence units and marines can't capture the team revolutionary which is a big organization but they can somehow track down a single man, that too a top-tier, no matter where he goes.:sanmoji:

If there are no chances of winning, Mihawk, like any other pirate, will focus more on escaping the marines than fighting them back. And if his primary focus of escape then I am afraid even sending an admiral won't be enough to capture him.
 
#52
A lot of OP theorists come up with Mihawk/Shanks theories that, simply put, make no sense whatsoever. For example, Morj, who many people in the community inexplicably see as a reliable theorist, believes that Mihawk will fight Zoro at Elbaf while Luffy and the Straw Hats face Shanks and the Red Haired Pirates in a Davy Back AT THE SAME TIME. This obviously shits on Zoro's dream and is brain dead in the sense that there is 0 chance of Luffy winning a Davy Back without Zoro. This is also entirely inconsistent with Mihawk's character. The man has no ties to Elbaf and has no reason to be there. There is also no reason why Zoro would have his final duel there of all places since it's more arguably Big Mom or Shanks' arc.

The main reason for these illogical theories is that most people see Zoro and Luffy's relationship as a direct parallel to Mihawk and Shanks. Not only is this a grave misunderstanding of all 4 characters, this makes the assumption that Zoro and Mihawk are, for some reason, essentially the same character. They are not, and their relationships with other characters are based on fundamentally different principles.

Zoro's Relationship With Luffy
  • Luffy is Zoro's Captain
  • Zoro was willing to throw away his ambition and dream for Luffy's
  • Zoro places Luffy's life in higher regard than his own
  • Zoro is Luffy's Partner
  • Zoro's relationship with Luffy is that of captain-vice captain.

Mihawk's Relationship With Shanks
  • Shanks is Mihawk's Rival
  • Mihawk did not abandon his ambition for Shanks
  • Mihawk cares about Shanks, but there's no evidence he would go so far as to lay down his life for Shanks
  • Mihawk and Shanks are not, to our knowledge, formally allied. Mihawk would never become Shanks' subordinate given that he's searching for a rival that's stronger than Shanks
  • Mihawk and Shanks have a friendship based on friendly rivalry, similar to Roger's friendship with Garp

Differences Between Mihawk's Relationship with Zoro and Shanks' Relationship With Luffy
  • Mihawk's Relationship With Zoro
  • Zoro's ambition is to surpass Mihawk and become the new World's Strongest Swordsman.
  • His promise to Kuina is Zoro's greatest motivation to become the World's Strongest Swordsman. Mihawk is just the current bearer of that title.
  • Mihawk was neither and idol nor role model to Zoro. He's just the person Zoro needs to beat to become the strongest.
  • Zoro doesn't directly desire to earn Mihawk's respect and recognition, but instead to best him in combat.
  • Mihawk looks at Zoro as a potential new worthy rival. He's waiting for the appearance of the swordsman that surpasses Shanks, and he hopes that Zoro might be that Swordsman.

Shanks' Relationship With Luffy
  • Luffy seeks to become the Pirate King (a title only Roger attained).
  • Shanks was Luffy's inspiration to become a Pirate.
  • Shanks was Luffy's idol and role model.
  • Luffy seeks Shanks' respect and recognition (he'll meet up with Shanks again after gathering a crew that's even better than his).
  • This is symbolised by Luffy returning his Strawhat to Shanks after becoming a Great Pirate.
  • Shanks bet on Luffy and gave up his arm for him. He has high hopes for Luffy as the successor to Roger. He doesn't hope for Luffy to become a new combat rival for him.

People theorising that Mihawk will join Shanks to fight BB (why tho) and that he will have a major role in the Elbaf arc aren't actually thinking critically about the character. They're just shoehorning him into their headcanons involving Shanks and crafting flimsy reasons for Mihawk to be there as well. Mihawk is not Zoro - where Zoro focuses on whatever problem he's dealing with in the moment, Mihawk is looking to the future, to the implications surrounding current events such as Reverie and planning his next move. While Zoro is undyingly loyal and welcomes suffering and hardship, Mihawk sees even a nick on one's blade as a symbol of disgrace. The two characters are extremely different, and trying to make them the same based on hurr durr sword hurr are misinterpreting both characters entirely.

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

Unless Oda throws a twist that makes Mihawk side with WG during the Final War (highly unlikely), I maintain that Zoro vs Mihawk happens after the Final War, in Red Line if it is yet to be destroyed, and that it becomes the last 1-on-1 fight in the series.

It also brings Zoro's journey full circle: In the SHs journey, Zoro is the first SH to have the chance to fulfill his dream if he had been able to defeat Mihawk back in Baratie, but we all know he (understandably) failed. Zoro becoming the last SH to fulfill his dream brings the SHs journey to a close. Pretty symbolic. :kata:
 
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#53
Yeah the entire WG with all their intelligence units and marines can't capture the team revolutionary which is a big organization but they can somehow track down a single man, that too a top-tier, no matter where he goes.:sanmoji:
The revs are disclosed no one knows their hideout, but they know where mihawk is at which is why you see battleships there

What does top tier have to do with anything? no top tier is survivng a masscare of this sort
the ssg is strong enough to replace the 7 warlords with mihawk strength included, now imagine several of that on the battle ship while buster calling
If there are no chances of winning, Mihawk, like any other pirate, will focus more on escaping the marines than fighting them back. And if his primary focus of escape then I am afraid even sending an admiral won't be enough to capture him.
And they will chase and surround him
 

Gol D. Roger

ȶɦɛ քɨʀǟȶɛ ӄɨռɢ
#54
The revs are disclosed no one knows their hideout, but you know where mihawk is at which is why you see battleships there
And what is stopping Mihawk from disclosing his whereabouts and going to a remote island where no one will be able to find him? If an entire organization hide their location while actively operating, why can't a single man do the same?

What does top tier have to do with anything? no top tier is survivng a masscare of this sort
the ssg is strong enough to replace the 7 warlords with mihawk strength included, now imagine several of that on the battle ship while buster calling
Being a top-tier means you can do things that normal people can't; lesser people managed to escape marines and are roaming the seas freely. Sure, Mihawk may or may not survive armies of marines but he can definitely escape them.

And they will chase him he will get surround him
Once again, When was the last time marines captured a big shot after a chase? They gotta capture Buggy first before thinking about Mihawk.
 
#55
And what is stopping Mihawk from disclosing his whereabouts and going to a remote island where no one will be able to find him? If an entire organization hide their location while actively operating, why can't a single man do the same?
They already found mihawk location


Being a top-tier means you can do things that normal people can't; lesser people managed to escape marines and are roaming the seas freely. Sure, Mihawk may or may not survive armies of marines but he can definitely escape them.


Once again, When was the last time marines captured a big shot after a chase? They gotta capture Buggy first before thinking about Mihawk.
Do you mean as in a fight or escape? It's very likely mihawk won't be dumb enough to fight, all im saying is where will he go if he escapes?
 
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Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#56
Mihawk is more than strong enough and smart enough to hide from the Marines. Rayleigh has done it for 22 years and he’s more wanted than Mihawk ever was. Mihawk joined them because it was useful to him, free meals, no bounty and he can come and go through Mariejoa to access the New World.
Rayleigh doesn’t hide from the Marines, they know exactly where he is, they just leave him alone since he is retired. The Marines choose not to pursue him. Rayleigh lives a comfortable life in retirement doing whatever he wants.

But the Marines have chosen to pursue Mihawk, and he can’t stay safe from them on his own. He could go hide in a jungle island somewhere, or he could be one an undercover hermit in some unheard of island...or he could just go to Shanks and he wouldn’t have to become an undercover hobo just to hide from the Navy.

And btw, “free meals”? Lol, when did Mihawk get free food from the WG aside from before Marineford?

There’s simply no making the argument that Mihawk dreads being pursued, the man is even excited to see that he’s become wanted again.
Probably more of a surprised excitement tbh, do you really think the Navy will keep Mihawk entertained for long? He is looking for powerful swordsmen.

Elbaf has no relation to either Zoro or Mihawk
What island does have a relation to Zoro and Mihawk?



Zoro views being Luffy's right hand as a lesser task to becoming the WSS. Why should the fight happen before Raftel? After all, if Zoro can't even help his captain become pirate king, what shot does he have at beating Mihawk?

:choppawhat:

So like I said, where do you think Zoro vs Mihawk fits in narratively? Raftel is going to be the Straw Hats vs the Blackbeard Pirates most likely. Is Mihawk going to show up out of nowhere and challenge Zoro then?

And when the final war happens, the entire world is most likely going to be fighting against the Government. Is Mihawk going to show up out of the Blue and fight Zoro when Luffy is carrying all of history on his back to defeat the Government? lol
 
#57
A lot of OP theorists come up with Mihawk/Shanks theories that, simply put, make no sense whatsoever. For example, Morj, who many people in the community inexplicably see as a reliable theorist, believes that Mihawk will fight Zoro at Elbaf while Luffy and the Straw Hats face Shanks and the Red Haired Pirates in a Davy Back AT THE SAME TIME. This obviously shits on Zoro's dream and is brain dead in the sense that there is 0 chance of Luffy winning a Davy Back without Zoro. This is also entirely inconsistent with Mihawk's character. The man has no ties to Elbaf and has no reason to be there. There is also no reason why Zoro would have his final duel there of all places since it's more arguably Big Mom or Shanks' arc.

The main reason for these illogical theories is that most people see Zoro and Luffy's relationship as a direct parallel to Mihawk and Shanks. Not only is this a grave misunderstanding of all 4 characters, this makes the assumption that Zoro and Mihawk are, for some reason, essentially the same character. They are not, and their relationships with other characters are based on fundamentally different principles.

Zoro's Relationship With Luffy
  • Luffy is Zoro's Captain
  • Zoro was willing to throw away his ambition and dream for Luffy's
  • Zoro places Luffy's life in higher regard than his own
  • Zoro is Luffy's Partner
  • Zoro's relationship with Luffy is that of captain-vice captain.

Mihawk's Relationship With Shanks
  • Shanks is Mihawk's Rival
  • Mihawk did not abandon his ambition for Shanks
  • Mihawk cares about Shanks, but there's no evidence he would go so far as to lay down his life for Shanks
  • Mihawk and Shanks are not, to our knowledge, formally allied. Mihawk would never become Shanks' subordinate given that he's searching for a rival that's stronger than Shanks
  • Mihawk and Shanks have a friendship based on friendly rivalry, similar to Roger's friendship with Garp

Differences Between Mihawk's Relationship with Zoro and Shanks' Relationship With Luffy
  • Mihawk's Relationship With Zoro
  • Zoro's ambition is to surpass Mihawk and become the new World's Strongest Swordsman.
  • His promise to Kuina is Zoro's greatest motivation to become the World's Strongest Swordsman. Mihawk is just the current bearer of that title.
  • Mihawk was neither and idol nor role model to Zoro. He's just the person Zoro needs to beat to become the strongest.
  • Zoro doesn't directly desire to earn Mihawk's respect and recognition, but instead to best him in combat.
  • Mihawk looks at Zoro as a potential new worthy rival. He's waiting for the appearance of the swordsman that surpasses Shanks, and he hopes that Zoro might be that Swordsman.

Shanks' Relationship With Luffy
  • Luffy seeks to become the Pirate King (a title only Roger attained).
  • Shanks was Luffy's inspiration to become a Pirate.
  • Shanks was Luffy's idol and role model.
  • Luffy seeks Shanks' respect and recognition (he'll meet up with Shanks again after gathering a crew that's even better than his).
  • This is symbolised by Luffy returning his Strawhat to Shanks after becoming a Great Pirate.
  • Shanks bet on Luffy and gave up his arm for him. He has high hopes for Luffy as the successor to Roger. He doesn't hope for Luffy to become a new combat rival for him.

People theorising that Mihawk will join Shanks to fight BB (why tho) and that he will have a major role in the Elbaf arc aren't actually thinking critically about the character. They're just shoehorning him into their headcanons involving Shanks and crafting flimsy reasons for Mihawk to be there as well. Mihawk is not Zoro - where Zoro focuses on whatever problem he's dealing with in the moment, Mihawk is looking to the future, to the implications surrounding current events such as Reverie and planning his next move. While Zoro is undyingly loyal and welcomes suffering and hardship, Mihawk sees even a nick on one's blade as a symbol of disgrace. The two characters are extremely different, and trying to make them the same based on hurr durr sword hurr are misinterpreting both characters entirely.

Where and when do you see their fight happening? For me it’s when, The Pirate King and Worlds Strongest Swordsman pull up to Marygeoise to tear down the WG.
 
#58
1. We don't know the circumstances on how he won there.

2. Had nothing to do with him actually becoming pk.

Roger could have solod the rox crew at neg diff

If wb didn't crash on wano Roger would never be pk.
even with WORST case ... Roger achievement is more important and epic than Zoro beating Mihawk
come on dude ... I know you have to hype this 2 ... but God Valley hype stand a mile form anything else

more screen time only gonna favor Roger

Roger swinged his sword 2 time and he surpassed Kaido's inhuman off chart screen time

imagine seeing him all out :goyea:
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
#59
even with WORST case ... Roger achievement is more important and epic than Zoro beating Mihawk
come on dude ... I know you have to hype this 2 ... but God Valley hype stand a mile form anything else

more screen time only gonna favor Roger

Roger swinged his sword 2 time and he surpassed Kaido's inhuman off chart screen time

imagine seeing him all out :goyea:
I'm not talking about opinions nor do I care what Roger did on God valley.
The facts are if wb never crashed on wano Roger would never be pirate King and nothing he did on that final voyage was anything of note strength wise.
 
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