Chinjao was a Garp rival, for the little we know about him, why shouldn't he have it?
Katakuri is literally the leader and protector of the pack of the Big Mom Pirates.
Ace wanted to defeat Whitebeard and take his throne. He later decided to become a subordinate of him, but he was destined to reach much higher, Whitebeard himself knew it and wanted him to become Pirate King.
Oden was the heir of the Wanokuni, and yet he created by himself his own kingdom inside Wano throught his adventures, throught his free spirit and his willpower, which made people follow him. He defeated criminals, he freed towns and saved people, Oden's story is just like Luffy's.
Again, Ace didn’t want to be the king of anything he wanted Whitebeard to be the king. That’s what this post is saying is all who have CoC need to want to be a king which is purely false.
Oden didn’t wanna lead Kuri not be shogun. Others may have wanted that for him but it’s not what he wanted. He had no Kingly aspiration either.
The desire to rule is not a necessary thing for CoC as we’ve seen those who have it and not have any desire to rule. Whitebeard outright states he just wants a family. We don’t even know what shanks wants.
I think the best definition of CoC would be not caring about the odds and obstacles lying ahead. Not out of pure madness or recklesness but because of an unbreakable will making CoC users think the dangers they have to face are irrelevant and not something to take into consideration during their personal quest. Whereas non CoC users assess the risks and base their actions on that.
At the end of the day it is still just whichever characters Oda wants to give it to. All the users currently shown to have it are very disparate, there's no universal criteria besides basic stuff that a plethora of characters have.
This is rather simple for me, someone who has CoC should be a person with a strong, very strong will and with an important ambition. But the ambition part could easily be changed to stuff like being the ruler of X or Y or even being born in a family of CoC users. This examples might apply to the likes of Ace, Katakuri, Oden, Yamato and Don Chinjao. Some of them had respectable positions in crews o places and some had both while being born from a parent with CoC.
I was really too lazy to put this together, but after seeing another braindead Reddit 'SanJI wILl GeT CoC' thread blow up, I suddenly realised how many people love to cherry pick the manga, but have no idea about what truly points to a character having CoC. So let me clear a few things up.
1. CoC is not (just) charisma
Here's the picture that started it all, a Reddit thread with over 3k upvotes arguing that Sanji will get CoC because he has converted secondary characters into allies:
This is... not accurate. For many reasons.
All the Straw Hats have converted formerly antagonistic characters into allies through heroic deeds. For example, Chiffon chose her loyalty to Nami over fleeing to safety with Capone and Pez. She willingly left her husband and child for a woman she'd only just met a day or two ago. Lola was the same, choosing to protect Nami and turning on her crush Absalom in Thriller Bark. This decision nearly resulted in Chiffon being killed by Oven, but she had no regrets about going back to repay her debt.
Nami also won Tashigi's trust during Punk Hazard by steadfastly insisting on saving the children. Tashigi's respect for Nami was such that she criticised her own subordinates for trash talking pirates later on.
Nami turned Wanda into an ally by stating (contrary to Sanji's hesitance) that the Straw Hats would save every single Mink from Caesar's poison. Note that it was Nami Wanda turned to for help, and not Sanji.
Nami also converted the scientists of Weatheria into her allies, despite them chasing her (after she robbed them) pre-timeskip.
Strangely, I see very few people arguing that Nami will unlock CoC. But going by this particular criterion, why shouldn't she? Nami's connection with Lola is the sole reason she and Luffy were even able to survive in the Seducing Woods, as Nami held off the homies and even turned them against Cracker with her VC, also allowing the Straw Hats to make use of King Baum to escape later.
The Japanese concept of 借り or indebtedness appears many times throughout the course of the story, and most shonen MCs leverage this in various ways. But as shown above, this is not a good reason to give a character CoC. Were this the case, half the cast would be conquerors. Hence, pointing out examples of characters that feel indebted to the characters (Gin, Germa etc) is simply making poor arguments. It's also leaving out the fact that 借り does not always equate to respect; Germa certainly had no kind words for Sanji's capabilities when they rescued him and Luffy.
This argument also ignores the many, many conquerors who don't rely on making allies, but are content to steamroll others and force them into subordination (Doffy, Big Mom, Kaido, Hancock).
2. Having CoC makes you a prodigy
Among some of the stranger arguments against Zoro getting CoC is that it supposedly undermines his hard work, since being born with CoC means you are a genius. This is untrue for multiple reasons. Luffy is a CoC user, but got smacked around by Higuma and the likes of Bluejam. He was not a natural born destroyer like Big Mom, and neither was Doflamingo, who for all intents and purposes was a normal child strength wise.
Putting that aside, all the Straw Hats are prodigies in their fields. Robin became a scholar at 8, Franky's background in shipwrighting somehow also allows him to be an expert in cybernetics and robotics, and Chopper became a doctor at 15. Usopp invented the Clima-Tact and Nami was a child prodigy at cartography and the second smartest person in East Blue. If genius was an indicator of CoC, pretty much all the Straw Hats should have it.
3. You don't need to want to become a king
Yes, you do. You need a strong will but more specifically, you may actually need to want to become a king.
Fan translations had King ask Zoro if he had 'kingly ambitions' which is more open to interpretation, but the raws and Viz specifically state that Zoro wants to become a King. Given that King asked Zoro this question the moment he saw his CoC, it's safe to say that CoC may well require the actual desire to become a king of some sort, whether the character actually acknowledges it or not. To Luffy, being PK means being the freest man, but a king is a king nevertheless.
「王」- king. Not 'kingly ambitions', but king. Full stop, end of story. Odd given characters like Yamahoe and Latakuri, but this is what we've been given. Even right hand men can be kings in their own right (Rayleigh), so this should not preclude them from CoC either.
Before anyone asks, yes, characters like Mihawk do (or did) want to become kings. When addressing Zoro, Mihawk states that he will await him at the top, using language that portrays himself as a king on his throne:
この世界最強の座にて貴様を待つ
この世界最強の座に - at the top
座 - seat
If Oda decides to give Sanji CoC, he better get the ball rolling now. Zoro's CoC has been foreshadowed since Punk Hazard and even multiple times within this arc. Oda will not dish out CoC to the Straw Hats willy nilly. They are not Rocks' crew, nor are they Roger's, and I highly doubt that Luffy considers his crew having or not having CoC as a prerequisite to surpassing the Red Haired Pirates.
I think it requires the drive to be something great, not necessarily a King per se. Be it the perfect big brother to be able to protect his family ( Katakuri) or the desire to free Wano, even though you have to go against your Father, as well as making out to the sea and become someone as legendary as Oden,etc.
I liked your post, but I would have enjoyed it more if you didn't use those terms when refering to Kat and Yamato. I feel like there is no need to do so and is basically insulting to the author as well as their fanbase.
I believe that there are multiple Conditions for someone to have Haoshoku Haki:
1. Leadership (Doesn't have to be a Leader but must have Qualities of a Leader)
2. Kingly Ambition (Must have Big Ambition even if shared by others, and it must involve becoming better than most People)
3. The Bravery to Protect your People (Even if it means making the whole World as your Enemy)
4. Unyielding (They do fall but their Willpower is among the best there is)
5. Not afraid of Death
6. Not afraid to Sacrifice anything for their Ambition or Morals
... etc
So CoC User = Having Qualities of a Leader + Kingly Ambition + Stand above Others + Top Bravery + Protect their People + Unyielding Will + Not afraid of Death + Not afraid of Sacrifice ... etc
I think it requires the drive to be something great, not necessarily a King per se. Be it the perfect big brother to be able to protect his family ( Katakuri) or the desire to free Wano, even though you have to go against your Father, as well as making out to the sea and become someone as legendary as Oden,etc.
I liked your post, but I would have enjoyed it more if you didn't use those terms when refering to Kat and Yamato. I feel like there is no need to do so and is basically insulting to the author as well as their fanbase.
I was really too lazy to put this together, but after seeing another braindead Reddit 'SanJI wILl GeT CoC' thread blow up, I suddenly realised how many people love to cherry pick the manga, but have no idea about what truly points to a character having CoC. So let me clear a few things up.
1. CoC is not (just) charisma
Here's the picture that started it all, a Reddit thread with over 3k upvotes arguing that Sanji will get CoC because he has converted secondary characters into allies:
This is... not accurate. For many reasons.
All the Straw Hats have converted formerly antagonistic characters into allies through heroic deeds. For example, Chiffon chose her loyalty to Nami over fleeing to safety with Capone and Pez. She willingly left her husband and child for a woman she'd only just met a day or two ago. Lola was the same, choosing to protect Nami and turning on her crush Absalom in Thriller Bark. This decision nearly resulted in Chiffon being killed by Oven, but she had no regrets about going back to repay her debt.
Nami also won Tashigi's trust during Punk Hazard by steadfastly insisting on saving the children. Tashigi's respect for Nami was such that she criticised her own subordinates for trash talking pirates later on.
Nami turned Wanda into an ally by stating (contrary to Sanji's hesitance) that the Straw Hats would save every single Mink from Caesar's poison. Note that it was Nami Wanda turned to for help, and not Sanji.
Nami also converted the scientists of Weatheria into her allies, despite them chasing her (after she robbed them) pre-timeskip.
Strangely, I see very few people arguing that Nami will unlock CoC. But going by this particular criterion, why shouldn't she? Nami's connection with Lola is the sole reason she and Luffy were even able to survive in the Seducing Woods, as Nami held off the homies and even turned them against Cracker with her VC, also allowing the Straw Hats to make use of King Baum to escape later.
The Japanese concept of 借り or indebtedness appears many times throughout the course of the story, and most shonen MCs leverage this in various ways. But as shown above, this is not a good reason to give a character CoC. Were this the case, half the cast would be conquerors. Hence, pointing out examples of characters that feel indebted to the characters (Gin, Germa etc) is simply making poor arguments. It's also leaving out the fact that 借り does not always equate to respect; Germa certainly had no kind words for Sanji's capabilities when they rescued him and Luffy.
This argument also ignores the many, many conquerors who don't rely on making allies, but are content to steamroll others and force them into subordination (Doffy, Big Mom, Kaido, Hancock).
2. Having CoC makes you a prodigy
Among some of the stranger arguments against Zoro getting CoC is that it supposedly undermines his hard work, since being born with CoC means you are a genius. This is untrue for multiple reasons. Luffy is a CoC user, but got smacked around by Higuma and the likes of Bluejam. He was not a natural born destroyer like Big Mom, and neither was Doflamingo, who for all intents and purposes was a normal child strength wise.
Putting that aside, all the Straw Hats are prodigies in their fields. Robin became a scholar at 8, Franky's background in shipwrighting somehow also allows him to be an expert in cybernetics and robotics, and Chopper became a doctor at 15. Usopp invented the Clima-Tact and Nami was a child prodigy at cartography and the second smartest person in East Blue. If genius was an indicator of CoC, pretty much all the Straw Hats should have it.
3. You don't need to want to become a king
Yes, you do. You need a strong will but more specifically, you may actually need to want to become a king.
Fan translations had King ask Zoro if he had 'kingly ambitions' which is more open to interpretation, but the raws and Viz specifically state that Zoro wants to become a King. Given that King asked Zoro this question the moment he saw his CoC, it's safe to say that CoC may well require the actual desire to become a king of some sort, whether the character actually acknowledges it or not. To Luffy, being PK means being the freest man, but a king is a king nevertheless.
「王」- king. Not 'kingly ambitions', but king. Full stop, end of story. Odd given characters like Yamahoe and Latakuri, but this is what we've been given. Even right hand men can be kings in their own right (Rayleigh), so this should not preclude them from CoC either.
Before anyone asks, yes, characters like Mihawk do (or did) want to become kings. When addressing Zoro, Mihawk states that he will await him at the top, using language that portrays himself as a king on his throne:
この世界最強の座にて貴様を待つ
この世界最強の座に - at the top
座 - seat
If Oda decides to give Sanji CoC, he better get the ball rolling now. Zoro's CoC has been foreshadowed since Punk Hazard and even multiple times within this arc. Oda will not dish out CoC to the Straw Hats willy nilly. They are not Rocks' crew, nor are they Roger's, and I highly doubt that Luffy considers his crew having or not having CoC as a prerequisite to surpassing the Red Haired Pirates.
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who said there's only 20?
