Character Discussion Monster Trio Is Canon
- Thread starter Blother Fertitta
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It’s not how it works, Sanji doesn’t have to be close to either Luffy or Zoro for the Monster Trio to be a thing. It’s just that the idea of Sanji being included in a group/concept that includes Zoro irks some Zoro fans that want to mark a separation between them at any cost so they can discard the idea of them being close in strength.
Luffy fans never really cared about the Monster Trio being a thing or not, despite him being clearly head and shoulders above Sanji since the timeskip. It was always obvious but never really mattered in the Monster Trio debate. It’s always about what Zoro and Sanji do because people make this about Zoro vs Sanji. But it was never about Zoro vs Sanji, that’s another subject entirely.
Luffy fans never really cared about the Monster Trio being a thing or not, despite him being clearly head and shoulders above Sanji since the timeskip. It was always obvious but never really mattered in the Monster Trio debate. It’s always about what Zoro and Sanji do because people make this about Zoro vs Sanji. But it was never about Zoro vs Sanji, that’s another subject entirely.
what irks Zoro fans is when people blatantly say with headcanon Sanji is stronger than Zoro.
Zoro on the roof and Sanji not being on the roof show the far separation
I dont think it will be a monster trio after Wano, I see the rivalry dying down between Zoro and Sanji. I think Zoro and Sanji will be too far apart at this trajectory, the only way they end up close to one another is if Zoro ends up going 1v1 with a calamity.
Zoro on the roof and Sanji not being on the roof show the far separation
I dont think it will be a monster trio after Wano, I see the rivalry dying down between Zoro and Sanji. I think Zoro and Sanji will be too far apart at this trajectory, the only way they end up close to one another is if Zoro ends up going 1v1 with a calamity.
The first sentence is the sentiment of Zoro fans. When people say that Sanji is stronger than Zoro
The rest is me stating my opinion. Which I stand by, at this juncture and the trajectory we are going on Zoro and Luffy and way far apart from Sanji in terms of strength or Sanji would be on the roof as well
The rest is me stating my opinion. Which I stand by, at this juncture and the trajectory we are going on Zoro and Luffy and way far apart from Sanji in terms of strength or Sanji would be on the roof as well
Sanji was never part of every single thing Zoro and Luffy are, the way Zoro never got to do everything Luffy does. The M3 doesn't mean Luffy = Zoro = Sanji, so parts of the M3 getting to do stuff that parts of the M3 don't get to do, doesn't mean there's no longer any M3 or Oda's pushing for something different from the past in terms of strength gaps.
Zoro is up there and Sanji isn't because :
1. Zoro is, and always was second to Luffy, and thus the strongest combatant Luffy can rely on other than himself in the crew, as well as being the closest thing Luffy has to a first mate.
2. Outside of the fact that in general it was always the case that Zoro is stronger, he is much better suited to leave his mark on this particular opponent because of his fighting style and what he is best at. If Kaido's greatest strength was his speed and him being nearly impossible to land an attack on, then maybe Sanji would have been a better choice.
3. Maybe the post important point, we are in Wano. There's build up for Zoro's character in preparation for this arc, and through out Wano.
So in general, it makes sense for Zoro to get to do things that Sanji does not, and this being Wano, it makes even more sense for us to witness one of those moments. Luffy and Zoro > Sanji was always the case, as is Luffy > Zoro and Sanji. Both are true, because at the end of the day Luffy > Zoro > Sanji.
Depending on the arc Oda focuses more on one or the other, but it's not meant to change anything about their overall dynamic.
Zoro is up there and Sanji isn't because :
1. Zoro is, and always was second to Luffy, and thus the strongest combatant Luffy can rely on other than himself in the crew, as well as being the closest thing Luffy has to a first mate.
2. Outside of the fact that in general it was always the case that Zoro is stronger, he is much better suited to leave his mark on this particular opponent because of his fighting style and what he is best at. If Kaido's greatest strength was his speed and him being nearly impossible to land an attack on, then maybe Sanji would have been a better choice.
3. Maybe the post important point, we are in Wano. There's build up for Zoro's character in preparation for this arc, and through out Wano.
So in general, it makes sense for Zoro to get to do things that Sanji does not, and this being Wano, it makes even more sense for us to witness one of those moments. Luffy and Zoro > Sanji was always the case, as is Luffy > Zoro and Sanji. Both are true, because at the end of the day Luffy > Zoro > Sanji.
Depending on the arc Oda focuses more on one or the other, but it's not meant to change anything about their overall dynamic.
Nobody in his right mind thinks Sanji is stronger than Zoro, that was never really the issue. That’s too ridiculous a statement to be taken and discussed seriously. What irks Zoro fans is the suggestion that they’re close in strength or even equal. What irks Sanji fans is the suggestion the gap is wide. It’s always been what the debate was about.
And you giving your opinion on the matter illustrates my point. That’s what I was saying earlier too, it’s not about them. It’s where they stand in the crew that decides the Monster Trio, not where they stand comparatively to each other.
And you giving your opinion on the matter illustrates my point. That’s what I was saying earlier too, it’s not about them. It’s where they stand in the crew that decides the Monster Trio, not where they stand comparatively to each other.
People on this forum definitely do believe that. Just look at the Sanji vs Zoro poll as proof, that was the point of yours I was refuting when you mentioned Sanji being close to Zoro irks Zoro fans. I gave my prediction, lets say Im wrong for argument sake right. and Sanji gets an achieve nearly as good as Zoro and is close to him in strength, etc. and the Monster Trio layout is the same as previous arcs. That wouldnt irk myself nor most Zoro fans at all.
At end of Wano i think it'll be Luffy, Zoro and then Sanji, Jimbei, Yamato as the trio. My guess and my headcanon prediction.
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My headcanon guess is Oda throwing us a curve ball and going Luffy, Zoro 1, 2 and then the Trio of Sanji, Jimbei, Yamato. Sanji already been jealous in a couple of panels of Jimbei too
At end of Wano i think it'll be Luffy, Zoro and then Sanji, Jimbei, Yamato as the trio. My guess and my headcanon prediction.
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My headcanon guess is Oda throwing us a curve ball and going Luffy, Zoro 1, 2 and then the Trio of Sanji, Jimbei, Yamato. Sanji already been jealous in a couple of panels of Jimbei too
You do realize that is looks similar to Enies Lobby where Sanji comes around later, right? Plus we both know whether there or not, Luffy will be only one for Kaido to take majority on beating him.
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Nah, he worked on something too much to stop it especially if there is a new one he going for, he now calling Luffy 'Yonko' while Zoro, Sanji, and Jimbei are his YCs. That is about it and we seen Zoro jealous continue even in this arc though too.
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You mean with Zoro being hype tool while Sanji solo YC lvl opponent? Not good reason especially this arc Zoro been hype tool for many of his opponents. He couldn't even beat Apoo in 2 vs 1 fight, so Zoro being up there is the same as Killer they are support and there is no 'Rooftop level' which is dumb headcannon.
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Sounds like someone is headcannon central. Not believing on the side who stated Zoro can beat Thanos or Pica is above YCs and Yonko level 
.
Lol Zoro got hype tool by Hawkins, Kyoshiro, Kamazou, Gyukimaro, and Apoo. He couldn't even beat Apoo with one of his best moves in 2 vs 1 fight while Sanji beaten PO and Drake. Your salt is not helping you be credible at all here.
Also your past arcs isn't good one as wasn't Zoro captured by Hody afterwards their fight and needed help? Sanji handle off Vergo while Zoro with Tashigi 2 vs 1 Monet.
LMAO
. Your talking about him unable to handle Doffy while Zoro couldn't even break his Birdcage and your forcing Zoro could take on admiral? Stupidity is contagious the more I see you post. We all know Zoro sneak attack Pica and needed help in 3 vs 1 to get to him.
It is got Enies Lobby Route and not really true as Zoro did attack Lucci prior and got No-Diff by him and then by Kaku before fighting. Zoro facing Kaido doesn't mean much when we all know he isn't beating Big Mom and Kaido and being stupid doesn't help on forcing it. Sanji facing YC lvl compare to a guy who asking help from his side and need Enma to compete in 5 vs 1 after just unable to beat 'Hundred Feats Apoo' who is back on his feet like nothing doesn't give hype to Zoro. It is more hype to Apoo.
Monster Trio still there, but would say Sanji in terms on handling his fights more than Zoro unable on his especially fainting took it out of him to boot.
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Nah, he worked on something too much to stop it especially if there is a new one he going for, he now calling Luffy 'Yonko' while Zoro, Sanji, and Jimbei are his YCs. That is about it and we seen Zoro jealous continue even in this arc though too.
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You mean with Zoro being hype tool while Sanji solo YC lvl opponent? Not good reason especially this arc Zoro been hype tool for many of his opponents. He couldn't even beat Apoo in 2 vs 1 fight, so Zoro being up there is the same as Killer they are support and there is no 'Rooftop level' which is dumb headcannon.
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Pretty much this. :cheers:
Oda has established since Post-TS began that what was once a M3 is no longer a thing. The last time they shared a spotlight together was dealing with Kraken (even then, the damage output was different since Sanji could only brand the kraken while Zoro outright severed his arm and Luffy outright knocked him out).
Even in Fishman Island, Sanji shared a role with Jinbei while Luffy & Zoro were individually taking care of Hody, Hyouzou, and Decken.
In Punk Hazard, Sanji lost to Vergo while Luffy & Zoro dealt with Caesar & Monet individually.
In Dressrosa, Sanji easily lost to Doflamingo while Luffy dealt with the same guy (albeit with Law's help) and Chinjao individually. Zoro at least loldiffed Pica and didn't embaras himself against an admiral.
I don't need to talk about WCI.
Zoro dealt with three Supernovas in Wano while Luffy improved his haki in Udon. Sanji's only brief fight is against P1 whose result was not shown by Oda.
Zoro and Luffy are on the rooftop dealing with Yonkos. Sanji stays down to take care of fodders.
Oda wrote it plainly for all to see, really.
That's why everybody who is still holding out hope for Sanji lived in the past and kept repeating "Remember Enies Lobby!", because that was the last time Sanji held any relevance at all: when MCU was not even a thing. Now it's the biggest film franchise of all time and the World's Strongest Duo are still relevant.
I remember Enies Lobby. I don't remember Luffy and Zoro fighting against the two main opponents then, but they do now. Because Enies Lobby and Wano virtually have no resemblance at all aside from *check notes* Sanji getting wrecked by a woman because of his "chivalry".
He's staying down to help Chopper against a YC, if he's lucky.
Oda has established since Post-TS began that what was once a M3 is no longer a thing. The last time they shared a spotlight together was dealing with Kraken (even then, the damage output was different since Sanji could only brand the kraken while Zoro outright severed his arm and Luffy outright knocked him out).
Even in Fishman Island, Sanji shared a role with Jinbei while Luffy & Zoro were individually taking care of Hody, Hyouzou, and Decken.
In Punk Hazard, Sanji lost to Vergo while Luffy & Zoro dealt with Caesar & Monet individually.
In Dressrosa, Sanji easily lost to Doflamingo while Luffy dealt with the same guy (albeit with Law's help) and Chinjao individually. Zoro at least loldiffed Pica and didn't embaras himself against an admiral.
I don't need to talk about WCI.
Zoro dealt with three Supernovas in Wano while Luffy improved his haki in Udon. Sanji's only brief fight is against P1 whose result was not shown by Oda.
Zoro and Luffy are on the rooftop dealing with Yonkos. Sanji stays down to take care of fodders.
Oda wrote it plainly for all to see, really.
That's why everybody who is still holding out hope for Sanji lived in the past and kept repeating "Remember Enies Lobby!", because that was the last time Sanji held any relevance at all: when MCU was not even a thing. Now it's the biggest film franchise of all time and the World's Strongest Duo are still relevant.
I remember Enies Lobby. I don't remember Luffy and Zoro fighting against the two main opponents then, but they do now. Because Enies Lobby and Wano virtually have no resemblance at all aside from *check notes* Sanji getting wrecked by a woman because of his "chivalry".
He's staying down to help Chopper against a YC, if he's lucky.
.Lol Zoro got hype tool by Hawkins, Kyoshiro, Kamazou, Gyukimaro, and Apoo. He couldn't even beat Apoo with one of his best moves in 2 vs 1 fight while Sanji beaten PO and Drake. Your salt is not helping you be credible at all here.
Also your past arcs isn't good one as wasn't Zoro captured by Hody afterwards their fight and needed help? Sanji handle off Vergo while Zoro with Tashigi 2 vs 1 Monet.
LMAO
. Your talking about him unable to handle Doffy while Zoro couldn't even break his Birdcage and your forcing Zoro could take on admiral? Stupidity is contagious the more I see you post. We all know Zoro sneak attack Pica and needed help in 3 vs 1 to get to him.It is got Enies Lobby Route and not really true as Zoro did attack Lucci prior and got No-Diff by him and then by Kaku before fighting. Zoro facing Kaido doesn't mean much when we all know he isn't beating Big Mom and Kaido and being stupid doesn't help on forcing it. Sanji facing YC lvl compare to a guy who asking help from his side and need Enma to compete in 5 vs 1 after just unable to beat 'Hundred Feats Apoo' who is back on his feet like nothing doesn't give hype to Zoro. It is more hype to Apoo.
Monster Trio still there, but would say Sanji in terms on handling his fights more than Zoro unable on his especially fainting took it out of him to boot.
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You do realize that is looks similar to Enies Lobby where Sanji comes around later, right? Plus we both know whether there or not, Luffy will be only one for Kaido to take majority on beating him.
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Nah, he worked on something too much to stop it especially if there is a new one he going for, he now calling Luffy 'Yonko' while Zoro, Sanji, and Jimbei are his YCs. That is about it and we seen Zoro jealous continue even in this arc though too.
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You mean with Zoro being hype tool while Sanji solo YC lvl opponent? Not good reason especially this arc Zoro been hype tool for many of his opponents. He couldn't even beat Apoo in 2 vs 1 fight, so Zoro being up there is the same as Killer they are support and there is no 'Rooftop level' which is dumb headcannon.
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Sounds like someone is headcannon central. Not believing on the side who stated Zoro can beat Thanos or Pica is above YCs and Yonko level.
Lol Zoro got hype tool by Hawkins, Kyoshiro, Kamazou, Gyukimaro, and Apoo. He couldn't even beat Apoo with one of his best moves in 2 vs 1 fight while Sanji beaten PO and Drake. Your salt is not helping you be credible at all here.
Also your past arcs isn't good one as wasn't Zoro captured by Hody afterwards their fight and needed help? Sanji handle off Vergo while Zoro with Tashigi 2 vs 1 Monet.
LMAO. Your talking about him unable to handle Doffy while Zoro couldn't even break his Birdcage and your forcing Zoro could take on admiral? Stupidity is contagious the more I see you post. We all know Zoro sneak attack Pica and needed help in 3 vs 1 to get to him.
It is got Enies Lobby Route and not really true as Zoro did attack Lucci prior and got No-Diff by him and then by Kaku before fighting. Zoro facing Kaido doesn't mean much when we all know he isn't beating Big Mom and Kaido and being stupid doesn't help on forcing it. Sanji facing YC lvl compare to a guy who asking help from his side and need Enma to compete in 5 vs 1 after just unable to beat 'Hundred Feats Apoo' who is back on his feet like nothing doesn't give hype to Zoro. It is more hype to Apoo.
Monster Trio still there, but would say Sanji in terms on handling his fights more than Zoro unable on his especially fainting took it out of him to boot.
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Nah, he worked on something too much to stop it especially if there is a new one he going for, he now calling Luffy 'Yonko' while Zoro, Sanji, and Jimbei are his YCs. That is about it and we seen Zoro jealous continue even in this arc though too.
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You mean with Zoro being hype tool while Sanji solo YC lvl opponent? Not good reason especially this arc Zoro been hype tool for many of his opponents. He couldn't even beat Apoo in 2 vs 1 fight, so Zoro being up there is the same as Killer they are support and there is no 'Rooftop level' which is dumb headcannon.
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Sounds like someone is headcannon central. Not believing on the side who stated Zoro can beat Thanos or Pica is above YCs and Yonko level
.Lol Zoro got hype tool by Hawkins, Kyoshiro, Kamazou, Gyukimaro, and Apoo. He couldn't even beat Apoo with one of his best moves in 2 vs 1 fight while Sanji beaten PO and Drake. Your salt is not helping you be credible at all here.
Also your past arcs isn't good one as wasn't Zoro captured by Hody afterwards their fight and needed help? Sanji handle off Vergo while Zoro with Tashigi 2 vs 1 Monet.
LMAO
. Your talking about him unable to handle Doffy while Zoro couldn't even break his Birdcage and your forcing Zoro could take on admiral? Stupidity is contagious the more I see you post. We all know Zoro sneak attack Pica and needed help in 3 vs 1 to get to him.It is got Enies Lobby Route and not really true as Zoro did attack Lucci prior and got No-Diff by him and then by Kaku before fighting. Zoro facing Kaido doesn't mean much when we all know he isn't beating Big Mom and Kaido and being stupid doesn't help on forcing it. Sanji facing YC lvl compare to a guy who asking help from his side and need Enma to compete in 5 vs 1 after just unable to beat 'Hundred Feats Apoo' who is back on his feet like nothing doesn't give hype to Zoro. It is more hype to Apoo.
Monster Trio still there, but would say Sanji in terms on handling his fights more than Zoro unable on his especially fainting took it out of him to boot.
Not necessarily as I remember he did face Lucci in fight, but got defeated, so just because he is there with Kaido doesn't mean he won't be defeated again. He can have moment, but we all know Luffy vs Kaido is too hype up just to be change with someone else.
I mean Zoro could get knock off the roof to face back down Queen or King, cause we both know for sure he isn't beating 2 Yonkos at all.
I mean Zoro could get knock off the roof to face back down Queen or King, cause we both know for sure he isn't beating 2 Yonkos at all.
Not in Enies Lobby, they fought in Galley La together, where Zoro also had an encounter with Kaku as well, which also foreshadowed a future matchup.
The trajectory for Sanji in enies Lobby matches Onigashima, the trajectory for Zoro already does not match, Oda has flipped the script for Zoro, regardless of what happens next because Zoro is fighting Kaido at this point.
Zoro could get knocked off the roof. Zoro could also finish the fight with Kaido and BM alongside the SNs. Luffy will not defeat Kaido 1v1, My prediction is Luffy will team up with New Gen or big 3 captains to defeat the Yonko as a stepping stone for a 1v1 vs BB or Shanks
The trajectory for Sanji in enies Lobby matches Onigashima, the trajectory for Zoro already does not match, Oda has flipped the script for Zoro, regardless of what happens next because Zoro is fighting Kaido at this point.
Zoro could get knocked off the roof. Zoro could also finish the fight with Kaido and BM alongside the SNs. Luffy will not defeat Kaido 1v1, My prediction is Luffy will team up with New Gen or big 3 captains to defeat the Yonko as a stepping stone for a 1v1 vs BB or Shanks
F
You do realize that is looks similar to Enies Lobby where Sanji comes around later, right? Plus we both know whether there or not, Luffy will be only one for Kaido to take majority on beating him.
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Nah, he worked on something too much to stop it especially if there is a new one he going for, he now calling Luffy 'Yonko' while Zoro, Sanji, and Jimbei are his YCs. That is about it and we seen Zoro jealous continue even in this arc though too.
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You mean with Zoro being hype tool while Sanji solo YC lvl opponent? Not good reason especially this arc Zoro been hype tool for many of his opponents. He couldn't even beat Apoo in 2 vs 1 fight, so Zoro being up there is the same as Killer they are support and there is no 'Rooftop level' which is dumb headcannon.
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Sounds like someone is headcannon central. Not believing on the side who stated Zoro can beat Thanos or Pica is above YCs and Yonko level.
Lol Zoro got hype tool by Hawkins, Kyoshiro, Kamazou, Gyukimaro, and Apoo. He couldn't even beat Apoo with one of his best moves in 2 vs 1 fight while Sanji beaten PO and Drake. Your salt is not helping you be credible at all here.
Also your past arcs isn't good one as wasn't Zoro captured by Hody afterwards their fight and needed help? Sanji handle off Vergo while Zoro with Tashigi 2 vs 1 Monet.
LMAO. Your talking about him unable to handle Doffy while Zoro couldn't even break his Birdcage and your forcing Zoro could take on admiral? Stupidity is contagious the more I see you post. We all know Zoro sneak attack Pica and needed help in 3 vs 1 to get to him.
It is got Enies Lobby Route and not really true as Zoro did attack Lucci prior and got No-Diff by him and then by Kaku before fighting. Zoro facing Kaido doesn't mean much when we all know he isn't beating Big Mom and Kaido and being stupid doesn't help on forcing it. Sanji facing YC lvl compare to a guy who asking help from his side and need Enma to compete in 5 vs 1 after just unable to beat 'Hundred Feats Apoo' who is back on his feet like nothing doesn't give hype to Zoro. It is more hype to Apoo.
Monster Trio still there, but would say Sanji in terms on handling his fights more than Zoro unable on his especially fainting took it out of him to boot.
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Nah, he worked on something too much to stop it especially if there is a new one he going for, he now calling Luffy 'Yonko' while Zoro, Sanji, and Jimbei are his YCs. That is about it and we seen Zoro jealous continue even in this arc though too.
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You mean with Zoro being hype tool while Sanji solo YC lvl opponent? Not good reason especially this arc Zoro been hype tool for many of his opponents. He couldn't even beat Apoo in 2 vs 1 fight, so Zoro being up there is the same as Killer they are support and there is no 'Rooftop level' which is dumb headcannon.
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Sounds like someone is headcannon central. Not believing on the side who stated Zoro can beat Thanos or Pica is above YCs and Yonko level
.Lol Zoro got hype tool by Hawkins, Kyoshiro, Kamazou, Gyukimaro, and Apoo. He couldn't even beat Apoo with one of his best moves in 2 vs 1 fight while Sanji beaten PO and Drake. Your salt is not helping you be credible at all here.
Also your past arcs isn't good one as wasn't Zoro captured by Hody afterwards their fight and needed help? Sanji handle off Vergo while Zoro with Tashigi 2 vs 1 Monet.
LMAO
. Your talking about him unable to handle Doffy while Zoro couldn't even break his Birdcage and your forcing Zoro could take on admiral? Stupidity is contagious the more I see you post. We all know Zoro sneak attack Pica and needed help in 3 vs 1 to get to him.It is got Enies Lobby Route and not really true as Zoro did attack Lucci prior and got No-Diff by him and then by Kaku before fighting. Zoro facing Kaido doesn't mean much when we all know he isn't beating Big Mom and Kaido and being stupid doesn't help on forcing it. Sanji facing YC lvl compare to a guy who asking help from his side and need Enma to compete in 5 vs 1 after just unable to beat 'Hundred Feats Apoo' who is back on his feet like nothing doesn't give hype to Zoro. It is more hype to Apoo.
Monster Trio still there, but would say Sanji in terms on handling his fights more than Zoro unable on his especially fainting took it out of him to boot.