General & Others Monster Trio will stay
- Thread starter Kishido
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Not the same thing. Oda used that term as simply a reference to Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji no more than a handful of times, if that. It was just a way to talk about them.
Fans took that took that and turned it into something entirely different, and ironclad construct to group the three. They turned it into something it’s never been, a rule of power scaling, so that they could rank Sanji closer to Luffy and Zoro and Zoro closer to Luffy. It’s been used to say that Sanji is equal to Zoro’s contemporaries because he’s in the Monster Trio and Zoro is equal to Luffy’s for the same reason. The fan construct has also been used to say that Jinbe can’t or won’t join he crew because it would break the monster trio due to him being probably stronger than Zoro and definitely stronger than Sanji.
What Oda used is not the same things that fans use, and what fans use doesn’t exist.
Lol rich, coming from you.
Fans took that took that and turned it into something entirely different, and ironclad construct to group the three. They turned it into something it’s never been, a rule of power scaling, so that they could rank Sanji closer to Luffy and Zoro and Zoro closer to Luffy. It’s been used to say that Sanji is equal to Zoro’s contemporaries because he’s in the Monster Trio and Zoro is equal to Luffy’s for the same reason. The fan construct has also been used to say that Jinbe can’t or won’t join he crew because it would break the monster trio due to him being probably stronger than Zoro and definitely stronger than Sanji.
What Oda used is not the same things that fans use, and what fans use doesn’t exist.
Lol rich, coming from you.
I think that Jinbe will be in the Monster trio when he joins, he's too much stronger to be with Franky and Robin. After Wano, Luffy will leave the Monster Trio to be at his own level, Zoro and Sanji will stay in the Monster Trio, with Jinbe replacing Luffy as the new third member. Then we will end up with Luffy as the captain, and Zoro, Sanji and Jinbe as his top 3 fighters, just like the yonkos.
That's the way I see it going forward post Wano.
That's the way I see it going forward post Wano.
The fact that he lumped them together and felt the need to distinguish their individual power in respect to the rest of the crew, first and foremost, indicates that these three are closer together than they are to the rest of the crew.
Everything else beyond that comes from additional information (Enies Lobby and Douriki for example).
So yes, it is a power thing, but it´s not the end of all in itself.
And it lost meaning when 1) the gap between the members of the trio became increasingly bigger and bigger and more importantly 2) the gap was bigger between the members of the trio than the gap between the weakest of the trio and the rest of the crew, in particular Sanji and Franky/Robin coming out of the timeskip. So you had Luffy >> Zoro >>> Sanji > Franky/Robin.
Now with the Raid Suit that might have changed (though you can still make the argument that the gap between Luffy and Zoro/Sanji and the latter to the rest of the crew is somewhat similar) but with Jinbe, the term monster trio still makes no sense, since Jinbe, even assuming he is weaker than Zoro and RS Sanji (at least durability-wise he is miles ahead), is way closer to Sanji and Zoro than these two are to Luffy.
Everything else beyond that comes from additional information (Enies Lobby and Douriki for example).
So yes, it is a power thing, but it´s not the end of all in itself.
And it lost meaning when 1) the gap between the members of the trio became increasingly bigger and bigger and more importantly 2) the gap was bigger between the members of the trio than the gap between the weakest of the trio and the rest of the crew, in particular Sanji and Franky/Robin coming out of the timeskip. So you had Luffy >> Zoro >>> Sanji > Franky/Robin.
Now with the Raid Suit that might have changed (though you can still make the argument that the gap between Luffy and Zoro/Sanji and the latter to the rest of the crew is somewhat similar) but with Jinbe, the term monster trio still makes no sense, since Jinbe, even assuming he is weaker than Zoro and RS Sanji (at least durability-wise he is miles ahead), is way closer to Sanji and Zoro than these two are to Luffy.
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Luffy has been on his own level for the past few arcs, so why should we consider him leaving the trio only now after Wano? Plus it doesn't make sense in the long run because there will be more than one person on the crew who will reach top tier sooner or later, not only Luffy, so things are bound to balance out eventually
It wasn’t that though, where Oda felt the need to distinguish their individual power, it was just Nami (iirc) calling them monsters. Everything after that really just became stuff the fans used to continually stick them in a box. In fact, to your last point about the indicator that they were closer together than they were to the rest of the crew, the douriki actually refuted that because the douriki of the enemies Zoro and Sanji faced were actually closer to the enemies the rest of the crew faced than they were to Lucci.
Agreed with the end sentence there, with the caveat that the “power thing” was more of a reference to Nami thinking they’re just freaks. It wasn’t the be-all-end-all, but fans took it and tried to make it so.
Completely agreed with this, though honestly you could point to earlier if you wished, EL for example. We always knew that every enemy Luffy faced prior to EL was stronger than the next strongest enemy by a fair margin, but EL was the first time we were definitively able to see just how much because of the douriki. And then it was immediately highlighted in the next arc with Luffy vs Moria, as well as some commentary from the crew themselves in that arc, as well as when they got separated.
Jinbe further breaks it, as you mentioned, though I don’t think assuming he’s weaker than either of them (Zoro is probably debatable, though) is even feasible. But even then assumption doesn’t stand, like you pointed out.
Overall, it’s something that doesn’t mean what the people who champion it want it to mean. It’s largely irrelevant, and always has been.
Agreed with the end sentence there, with the caveat that the “power thing” was more of a reference to Nami thinking they’re just freaks. It wasn’t the be-all-end-all, but fans took it and tried to make it so.
Completely agreed with this, though honestly you could point to earlier if you wished, EL for example. We always knew that every enemy Luffy faced prior to EL was stronger than the next strongest enemy by a fair margin, but EL was the first time we were definitively able to see just how much because of the douriki. And then it was immediately highlighted in the next arc with Luffy vs Moria, as well as some commentary from the crew themselves in that arc, as well as when they got separated.
Jinbe further breaks it, as you mentioned, though I don’t think assuming he’s weaker than either of them (Zoro is probably debatable, though) is even feasible. But even then assumption doesn’t stand, like you pointed out.
Overall, it’s something that doesn’t mean what the people who champion it want it to mean. It’s largely irrelevant, and always has been.
The fact that Oda felt the need to call them out like that and distinguish the three over the rest of the crew is enough.
The Douriki did not do that actually because 1) Zoro and Sanji high end of mid diffed their opponent, while for Luffy it was actually the most extreme fight he had so far, with both going blow to blow and leaving everything on the table. You can guess what kind of opponent Luffy would same diff as Zoro and Sanji did Kaku and Jabra respectively, but it´s definitely closer than Fukurou and Kumadori were to the latter two (Franky same diffed Fukurou like Zoro and Sanji did their opponents, Chopper extreme diffed Kumadori) and equally important 2) the three strongest of CP9 all had Zoan fruits that significantly increased their physical abilities, which was pointed out several times, compared to Kumadori and Fukurou, who did not have any DFs, and Kalifa and Blueno who had more assistance type DFs. To add, both Lucci and Jabra had predatory type Zoans, which even additionally adds to it.
So yes, the three being closer than the crew are to them has always been true pre-TS, obviously before Franky and Robin even joined, but also after that. I would say around high diff opponents for Luffy.
Post-TS, that obviously changed. Sanji was barely matching opponents who were in the past and still are getting toyed with by the level of Luffy´s opponents, while Zoro was somewhere in-between these two (i would say Luffy was mid high tier, Zoro low high tier or high mid tier, Sanji mid mid tier, and Franky low mid tier). So obviously monster trio did not make much sense anymore.
And then Luffy even went further ahead with FS, high high tier, while everyone else remained the same. And with Jinbe joining, who himself is a low high tier, maybe even more, the concept became utterly meaningless.
With Sanji getting the RS, he jumped significantly up, but it´s debatable if he can advance from Jinbe more than the gap between him and Luffy, which is still really big, especially with Luffy learning another advanced Haki technique and moving up to top tier levels.
So right now, Jinbe, Sanji and Zoro are all pretty close to each other, while Luffy is significantly ahead, and the gap between Sanji/Jinbe and Franky is also very big, hence why it makes more sense to group these three together now.
What is gonna happen in the future can be debated, but i still do not see how Sanji could remain closer to PK level Luffy than to high tier Jinbe.
The Douriki did not do that actually because 1) Zoro and Sanji high end of mid diffed their opponent, while for Luffy it was actually the most extreme fight he had so far, with both going blow to blow and leaving everything on the table. You can guess what kind of opponent Luffy would same diff as Zoro and Sanji did Kaku and Jabra respectively, but it´s definitely closer than Fukurou and Kumadori were to the latter two (Franky same diffed Fukurou like Zoro and Sanji did their opponents, Chopper extreme diffed Kumadori) and equally important 2) the three strongest of CP9 all had Zoan fruits that significantly increased their physical abilities, which was pointed out several times, compared to Kumadori and Fukurou, who did not have any DFs, and Kalifa and Blueno who had more assistance type DFs. To add, both Lucci and Jabra had predatory type Zoans, which even additionally adds to it.
So yes, the three being closer than the crew are to them has always been true pre-TS, obviously before Franky and Robin even joined, but also after that. I would say around high diff opponents for Luffy.
Post-TS, that obviously changed. Sanji was barely matching opponents who were in the past and still are getting toyed with by the level of Luffy´s opponents, while Zoro was somewhere in-between these two (i would say Luffy was mid high tier, Zoro low high tier or high mid tier, Sanji mid mid tier, and Franky low mid tier). So obviously monster trio did not make much sense anymore.
And then Luffy even went further ahead with FS, high high tier, while everyone else remained the same. And with Jinbe joining, who himself is a low high tier, maybe even more, the concept became utterly meaningless.
With Sanji getting the RS, he jumped significantly up, but it´s debatable if he can advance from Jinbe more than the gap between him and Luffy, which is still really big, especially with Luffy learning another advanced Haki technique and moving up to top tier levels.
So right now, Jinbe, Sanji and Zoro are all pretty close to each other, while Luffy is significantly ahead, and the gap between Sanji/Jinbe and Franky is also very big, hence why it makes more sense to group these three together now.
What is gonna happen in the future can be debated, but i still do not see how Sanji could remain closer to PK level Luffy than to high tier Jinbe.
What I meant was that Post Wano, the Straw Hat crew's structure could change into that like a Yonko's. With one strongest at the top, and the 3 next strongest ones directly under him. If Luffy is gonna be the biggest contributing factor to beating Kaido, then post Wano Luffy should comfortably be stronger than both zoro and sanji. Until near the end of the series, i don't believe Oda with close the gap to make zoro and sanji on Luffy's level. Granted, neither zoro nor sanji have gone all out yet post time skip, but just considering the opponents luffy have faced in the new world (doffy, cracker, katakuri), Luffy gets stronger each time after beating one of them, while zoro and sanji still haven't be fully tested and lost opportunities to improve themselves and to get stronger. Luffy is gonna need the biggest jump in power in Wano to beat kaido, much bigger than zoro or sanji. So that means that after Wano Luffy will both have the most increases in power and strength and be the biggest contributing factor as well as the one to get the most headlines in the newspapers. Other people will most likely refer to luffy with particularly special interest and attention, on a level that neither sanji nor zoro will get. Besides, outside of the Straw Hats many people in the world don't even know about the monster trio, people might want to think of it as an official thing, but it doesn't receive enough exposure and attention from the outside world for the Monster Trio to stay in place forever to the end of the series. And since the 'Monster Trio' is really just a grouping and nothing more, there isn't a good enough reason for it stay that way, especially with Jinbe later joining and post Wano Luffy beating a Yonko, someone on a powerlevel that neither sanji or zoro will get the chance to beat until near the end of the series (admirals and the Blackbeard pirates). This is pretty normal i think, since there isn't really a Monster Trio 'thing' going on that we see in other groups and organizations in One Piece. Yonkos have their captain and their 3 commanders, Marines have their fleet admiral and their 3 admirals, even the Revos have their supreme commander and his 4 commanders. Dark King Rayleigh however strong he is, was still the vice captain, and even more recently Rocks, the strongest pirate crew with the likes of Kaido and Big Mom who are far stronger than Sanji or Zoro, still had Rocks D Xebec as their captain, and all the others under him.
It has always been only 1 guy at the top, and 3 directly under him. For what good reason would the Monster Trio in the Straw Hat crew stay to be the exception?
It has always been only 1 guy at the top, and 3 directly under him. For what good reason would the Monster Trio in the Straw Hat crew stay to be the exception?
Jinbei will be added to the monster trio and Luffy will be put on his own level.
- Jinbei is too strong to be put in the mid trio.
- Jinbei right now is stronger than both Sanji and Zoro let alone the mid trio. Based on feats and Portrayal.
- Based on feats and portrayal Jinbei is at least YC2 level. If you don't agree re-read his fight vs BM the re-read Queen vs BM.
- Post Wano or when Jinbei officially joins the crew he'll be viewed as either the YC2 or YC3 of the strawhats.
- The way I see it post Wano.
Luffy (Captain) > Zoro (First Mate) > Jinbei >= Sanji
- Jinbei is too strong to be put in the mid trio.
- Jinbei right now is stronger than both Sanji and Zoro let alone the mid trio. Based on feats and Portrayal.
- Based on feats and portrayal Jinbei is at least YC2 level. If you don't agree re-read his fight vs BM the re-read Queen vs BM.
- Post Wano or when Jinbei officially joins the crew he'll be viewed as either the YC2 or YC3 of the strawhats.
- The way I see it post Wano.
Luffy (Captain) > Zoro (First Mate) > Jinbei >= Sanji
