General & Others Next Straw Hat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[Rambles]

I don’t really understand how your mind works, man.

On the latest chapter, Lucci just went back on his word by attacking Vegapunk with an obvious intention to kill, even though he promised that he would kill Luffy first before anyone else, including the Vegapunks.

And no, “he killed 500 people because he think he had to” is not a good reason to put him in the redeemable type at all.

You are way too biased, to the point that I believe you are just trolling about Lucci for nakama train - -

I know that it sounds very strange to you, but have you ever been in a situation, in which you 100% knew what would happen? Like: You are flying into the future to note down the lottery-numbers, only to come back and fill out one lottery-ticket? That is how sure I am.


And yes, in a way I do like Lucci as a character, especially now, during the last 10 months, in which I had to defend and did my research on him. However, in my core, I am an analyst and if I latch on to something, then I usually do not let go. I can be very persitent.

Especially, if a situation like this arises: Because, think about the following: Many fans are focussed on the last person, who will join the crew. If you knew, who that was, would you also not just milk the situation? I mean, even if it is a morally grey zone I am walking currently in, I do enjoy it too much as that I would not make so many bets with everyone and would not constantly tell everyone, who will join and who is the traitor, etc. . And I really am looking forward to the time, when Lucci will be revealed as being on the SHP's side. Among other things also because knowing something that is going to happen, but seems unlikely to happen is exhausting - especially if you have to defend your point of view most times, you know?

I don't think, you would believe me if I tried to explain to you the many hints I found, because I know you would probably not attribute the same value to them as I do. I am not sure if you every read one of my analysis for you to understand what I am even thinking: Here you go. and Here as well.

There are much more smaller hints, but I do believe that many would not count them as such, considering they are mostly just little bumbs I happen to come upon. I don't even know if Oda realizes that he is leaving them behind.

I do not believe you are understanding me and I do not want to force my opinion upon you or anybody else. But I hope that I could give you at least a little insight into my thoughs and why I am acting like I do here in the forum.

By the way - You would not like to bet with me about Lucci joining, right?

 

[Devilbat]

The strawhats don't need help being legitimized, especially from someone like Vivi. They are already a yonko crew, and after this saga they'll be the pirate king crew. Vivi is a comparatively unimportant person, since a single country has nowhere near the strength, influence, or fame of someone like Gold Roger.

With all due respect, Vivi is not unimportant, she's a descendant from those 20 royal families from 800 or however years ago. The rest are current WG and turned out to be jerks who must be put in their place, and Vivi is the only okay one. There's Lili's legacy and stuff she has to carry on.

Not saying Vivi is going to rejoin the crew and become a pirate, but she's quite important and will probably play a huge role in building new WG there after Luffy becomes PK.

 

[Supra]

Is it possible for Vivi to get a bounty on her head ? Considering that Im wanted to see her, she could have a bounty where she's only wanted alive (like Sanji in the past).

That would explain why she would join the crew to protect herself.

 

[Monkey D Al]

The strawhats don't need help being legitimized, especially from someone like Vivi. They are already a yonko crew, and after this saga they'll be the pirate king crew. Vivi is a comparatively unimportant person, since a single country has nowhere near the strength, influence, or fame of someone like Gold Roger.

We have seen countries getting bodied by yonkou crews. And not even sending their main forces. Yonkou crews rival the WG and two crews together can shift the balance totally. So completely agree

 

[Rambles]

Well, it's been a long time since I posted in this thread. I think it would be fun to try and write my thoughts:

My personal point of view when looking at a new crew member is looking at the dream and relationship with the crew alongside a few other personal criteria that don't matter that much in the long scheme of things but I think Oda would have to consider in a permanent member. The dream part is important because it needs to be finished at the end of the series, not before.

As a example, I don't think a fighter would be added at this point in the saga simple because Oda can barely deal with the characters as is. However I can see a gag or weak character joining, because he can easily add some scenes without taking much of a chapter, while the monster trio fights. That's one of the reasons why I personally think Franky and Brook don't appear too much compared with the others: their gags are too specific and as fighters they take a backseat to the others. This is also why I believe Brook stole Mr. Prince persona from Sanji.

I also think that the character must be know or hinted since part 1. Specially in the last Saga this should be one of the biggest factors to make people accept the new member. As a example, if Bon Clay appeared somehow and joined I think most people would be trilled instead of asking why (and Franky's VA would get extra money). A giant connected to Broggy, Dorry or Saul could also fit the bill.

And last, but not least, Luffy should have asked to join and the person accepts or the person asks to join the crew and is accepted. Basic example: while she wasted pages claiming she wanted to join the crew and stealing the thunder of better characters, when directed asked to join by Luffy Yamato actually denied. Usually Luffy asks at the end of the arc but there's exceptions.

Small detail: I don't believe there's any other character besides Tama that directly asked to join and was accepted by Luffy or that Luffy asked to join and accepted but still is not a permanent crewmember. One more reason why tama=nakama. Frankly, I'm willing to be proven wrong because if this happened it would really be a surprise. And no, Vivi farewell scene is her denying the request to join unfortunately and not like Jinbe.

Putting all this there's very few characters that fit the bill:

>Hancock/S-Snake: Hancock fails because of lack of relationship with the crew and how powerful she is. S-Snake looked like a good compromisse until she was captured in the bubble instead of being left outside to interact with the crew after she freed them. If she was meant to join, the group could have some fun moments with her.

>Lucci: no dream, no interest in interacting with the crew and is actually a antagonist (but without a redeeming flashback or misunderstanding like franky). No reasonable chance of joining.

>Kaku: I mention Kaku just because compared with Lucci he is way more amicable and would have more chances to join (comparable with Lucci). While a cool character he does not have a dream or a good rapport with the crew.

>Bon Clay: stuck in Impel down. However if he somehow appear in the final war he will stay with the crew simple because he's awesome. Sadly this will mean even less Franky scenes but it's a sacrifice that I'm willing to face. However if Flamingo escapes Impel Down for some reason he will not be forgotten and many people will cry manly tears with the reunion.

>Vivi: The issue with Vivi is simple that her position in the world and role in the story does not mix very well with the SH. She works incredible well as a ally but not as a permanent member. And this is even ignoring her lack of dream and role in the ship.

>Tama: There's plenty of reasons why Tama=Nakama, but I already mentioned before in other posts. The only thing to mention is that she was hinted almost 400 chapters before she actually appeared, hinting of her importance in the arc, and actually fitting the bill of a character linked to part 1.

And that's it. Good night folks.

I'm at least glad that ou included Lucci in your list - this is a huge step forward, since no one else is actually including him - or barely. A win for me at last.

Yes, Franky and Brook do not have that much panel time, unfortuantely. Especially Brook has potential and Oda should focus more on the relationship inside the crew, add a few more day-to-day scenes and so on.

Post automatically merged: Sep 7, 2023

With all due respect, Vivi is not unimportant, she's a descendant from those 20 royal families from 800 or however years ago. The rest are current WG and turned out to be jerks who must be put in their place, and Vivi is the only okay one. There's Lili's legacy and stuff she has to carry on.

Not saying Vivi is going to rejoin the crew and become a pirate, but she's quite important and will probably play a huge role in building new WG there after Luffy becomes PK.

Not to mention the pictures Imu was holding. We know that there was Luffy, who has eaten the Nika-fruit and Shirahoshi, who is poseidon. Vivi must hold a comparising value to him/her. She is mor important in the long run than simply being a crew member.

 

[Albino 👑]

The strawhats don't need help being legitimized, especially from someone like Vivi. They are already a yonko crew, and after this saga they'll be the pirate king crew. Vivi is a comparatively unimportant person, since a single country has nowhere near the strength, influence, or fame of someone like Gold Roger.

They’re legit as pirates
Vivi can make them seem more legit as actual allies of the world. Helping other kingdoms realize betting on the strawhats is better than helping the current powers

 

[Rambles]

Is it possible for Vivi to get a bounty on her head ? Considering that Im wanted to see her, she could have a bounty where she's only wanted alive (like Sanji in the past).

That would explain why she would join the crew to protect herself.

It is interesting, that the newspaper wrote that she is missing and not that she is wanted. If the WG wanted her as a criminal, they would put a bounty on her head. But this would also mean that Vivi would become a enemy of the WG. No, that the WG declared Vivi missing, means that they need her to not see them as enemy. They want her symphty, you could say. If she were a simply princess, this would not be the case - she is more important that we know currently. Very important.

 

[Sigran101]

With all due respect, Vivi is not unimportant, she's a descendant from those 20 royal families from 800 or however years ago. The rest are current WG and turned out to be jerks who must be put in their place, and Vivi is the only okay one. There's Lili's legacy and stuff she has to carry on.

Not saying Vivi is going to rejoin the crew and become a pirate, but she's quite important and will probably play a huge role in building new WG there after Luffy becomes PK.

I said COMPARATIVELY unimportant. Vivi is unimportant compared to the strawhats and many of their existing allies.

They’re legit as pirates
Vivi can make them seem more legit as actual allies of the world. Helping other kingdoms realize betting on the strawhats is better than helping the current powers

They already have the kings of Fishman Island and Dressrosa and the shogun of Wano for this, and they're actual monarchs, not a princess on the run. Also, Whitebeard was seen as an ally of the world without a princess on his crew. Vivi can even help with this just fine without joining. In fact, joining would only lessen her credibility because she would abandon her kingdom and become a pirate.

 

[Supra]

It is interesting, that the newspaper wrote that she is missing and not that she is wanted. If the WG wanted her as a criminal, they would put a bounty on her head. But this would also mean that Vivi would become a enemy of the WG. No, that the WG declared Vivi missing, means that they need her to not see them as enemy. They want her symphty, you could say. If she were a simply princess, this would not be the case - she is more important that we know currently. Very important.

That's why I say she maybe can have a bounty with the mention "Only Alive". She can be wanted by the WG, not as a criminal, but as a missing and influent person.

 

[Devilbat]

I said COMPARATIVELY unimportant. Vivi is unimportant compared to the strawhats and many of their existing allies.

I would say Vivi is as important as any SH except Luffy. And definitely more important than GF members. Even story-wise she has more focus than GF.

Vivi can even help with this just fine without joining. In fact, joining would only lessen her credibility because she would abandon her kingdom and become a pirate.

Absolutely agree!

 

[Sigran101]

I would say Vivi is as important as any SH except Luffy. And definitely more important than GF members. Even story-wise she has more focus than GF.



Absolutely agree!

Definitely more important than the grand fleet members, but I'm gonna need evidence that she's more important than the likes of Zoro and Robin beyond "she's a princess" and headcannon theories.

 

[Carrota Guco]

Joyboy was prophesied to one day return to Wano. When that day was to come, the borders were claimed to must be open so Pluto was ready for it's captain. Joyboy did return to Wano, and defeated Kaido. His promise compared to most others was the truth. When Luffy smuggly said he didn't need Pluton, I think he may have some weight there.

Looking at lies and truths among the cast, Carrot was in the liars group that got what she wanted. The real question is, what does she want?

 

[Devilbat]

Definitely more important than the grand fleet members, but I'm gonna need evidence that she's more important than the likes of Zoro and Robin beyond "she's a princess" and headcannon theories.

- Will of D
- Descendant of one of 20 legendary families, whose ancestor spread poneglyphs and sent a letter with her legacy (albeit it's unclear if Vivi is aware of that letter, her father was, but did he share anything with her? or could she have found out on her own? possibly no to both questions)

since Vivi didn't travel with SHP and was out of the focus for a bigger part of the story, we need more facts to confirm her importance, but I think she is at least as important as Shirahoshi who is also an ancient weapon, but other than that didn't have that much of an impact on overall story so far, and quite likely as important as, say, Brook. She doesn't have a ship role, but she's not an honorary nakama for no reason ;)

 

[Sigran101]

- Will of D
- Descendant of one of 20 legendary families, whose ancestor spread poneglyphs and sent a letter with her legacy (albeit it's unclear if Vivi is aware of that letter, her father was, but did he share anything with her? or could she have found out on her own? possibly no to both questions)

since Vivi didn't travel with SHP and was out of the focus for a bigger part of the story, we need more facts to confirm her importance, but I think she is at least as important as Shirahoshi who is also an ancient weapon, but other than that didn't have that much of an impact on overall story so far, and quite likely as important as, say, Brook. She doesn't have a ship role, but she's not an honorary nakama for no reason ;)

Vivi is not a D, her ancestor was. And even if she was, so are characters like Saul. And again, being royalty doesn't make her more important. Who cares if she's decended from the original 20 kingdoms? You'll have to explain why this makes her important.

 

[Sic Mundus]

Vivi IS important.

But she WON’T join.

 

[Rushwheel]

Vivi is probably Uranus or some shit. Shirahoshi (mermaid princess) is Poseidon, Momo ("prince" of Wano) is most likely Pluton (because who else?), we need a third royal person that is loyal to the Straw Hats to keep the pattern going. So, Vivi.

 

[Sic Mundus]

Vivi is Ur-Anus?

 

[Devilbat]

Vivi is Ur-Anus?

Vivi is not a D, her ancestor was. And even if she was, so are characters like Saul. And again, being royalty doesn't make her more important. Who cares if she's decended from the original 20 kingdoms? You'll have to explain why this makes her important.

Judging by the pattern of the Monkey family, where Garp, Dragon and Luffy are all D's, plus Gol D Roger and Portgas D Rouge giving birth to Portgas D Ace, it is safe to assume that will of D is hereditary and thus, Vivi inherited Lili's D and most likely also her legacy and will. But I agree that we don't know enough to conclude what exactly it means.
To me, why being that one clan out of 20 kingdoms feels important since it's been brought up fairly early in the story, plus with the addition of info drop on Lili who disappeared and on top of that thwarted some of the plans of then newly formed WG, with her letter having her will and probably guidelines how to bring the current WG down, it seems like Vivi will still play a big part of the story. Other princesses I remember are Rebecca (I expect nothing of her), Shirahoshi (probably will awaken her Poseidon powers when needed in the final war), Pudding (have no idea what Oda plans for her tbh) and arguably Momo is a male version of an arc princess (guess he'll use Plutón somehow?). The focus Vivi got during Reverie arc and flashbacks of that arc bumped up her importance to me, he story seems unfinished, and I am sure she will have a bigger impact on the new order than the rest of the princesses.
But I can be wrong, I believed in Yamato joining after all

 

[meho_meho]

Vivi is probably Uranus or some shit. Shirahoshi (mermaid princess) is Poseidon, Momo ("prince" of Wano) is most likely Pluton (because who else?), we need a third royal person that is loyal to the Straw Hats to keep the pattern going. So, Vivi.

the way I see it:
Poseidon = sea princess = mermaid princess = Shirahoshi

Pluton = underworld princess = oni princess = Yamato

Uranus = sky princess = skypiean race princess = I think it's Nami

remember that cover spread where we one piece girls, Shirahoshi was in the sea, Yamato was on the ship, Nami was in the air

Post automatically merged: Sep 8, 2023

ancient weapons are not princesses of countries, but princesses of races

 

[CoC: Color of Clowns]

Yeah. And the worst part is that Yamato initially wanted to stay in Wano to do some exploration because Oden aparently did it too (which is not even true btw).

Oda even had to write a flashback scene to give us a more justified reason. And the reason is that Yamato has to stay to protect Wano. Which is... just strange.

One Piece was always been about young people leaving their home and duty behind them to fulfil their dreams. Those who refused to join the crew when they had the chance to do so were fine with their current situation (like Gaimon or Vivi). But we know Yamato wanted to become a strawhat. The fact that she has to sacrifice her dream to fulfil her duty... that's not One Piece for me.

Let's look at how Wano ends:

"Till we meet again" is telling enough on its own, but "Inherited Will Never Fades". THAT'S why Yamato stayed behind; she inherited part of Oden's Will, just like the Straw Hats and Scabbards inherited the Will to kill Kaido, how Momo inherited the Will to become Shogun, how Hiyori inherited the Will to kill Orochi (fuck you Denjiro you kill stealing fuck, let HIYORI HAVE HER MOMENT ODA).

Yamato inherited Oden's Will, to do what? Open the Borders of Wano.

Yamato cannot leave the country until the borders are open and Pluton is activated.

Yamato wants to sail with the crew, but, deep in her heart, she loves Wano, and wants to make sure it's never taken over again. Wano's freedom, becoming a nation without closed borders, will directly lead to Yamato joining.

Once the Borders are open, Yamato will finally be free, just like Wano. I just wish it had happened before Egghead, but, Oda wanted to bring Vegapunk into the fold before he expanded into ancient techology like the Ancient WEapons.

Yamato's actual words are meant to distract us from her true narrative purpose as the women who "became" Kozuki Oden: to open the borders of Wano, like Oden always wanted.