Powers & Abilities Oda did a deservice to have Sanji and Zoro jump mutiple tiers.

[Sir Yasheen]

I definitely think Oda could have handled the straw hats progression better. Problem is that for most of post-timeskip he only focused on Luffy's growth. Sanji's first actual fight and W in the New World is against a YC2 (I ain't counting ambiguous off-screen stuff like P1), kind of odd. It would have been nice if Oda let him beat a high level vet fighter like Perospero in WCI.
But the worst offender that will cause a shitstorm in the entire is fandom didn't happen yet.
Imagine if the weaklings manage to take down BB's captains in 1 vs 1 when Oda has been refusing to let them beat anybody above fodder level for the entirety of the post-timeskip, an entire decade.

I mean he did beat a high veteran level fighter in Yonji. The only issue is it was off screen and people instantly downplayed Yonji after

 

[Ask D question]

Where and when did he do that? This is exactly what I mean by Sanji fans and their headcannon. We know Zoro trained his haki in Wano off screen because we got glimpses of it same with Luffy.

When did we get anything regarding Sanji training at all in Wano? He fought Page One and wore the RS, then save Tama in the RS which somehow awakened his Germa genetic powers.

The fact that Sanji fans make shit up in order to put him on the level of Zoro actually makes him look weaker.

Post automatically merged: Jan 21, 2022

It’s a reach. Why would Sanji be the only SH to train off screen in Wano without any clear reference to the training?

He said it before using ifrit jambe for the first time

"by combining the exoskeleton with my trained armement haki I should be able to use flammes hotter than before"

 

[DonWick]

He said it before using ifrit jambe for the first time

"by combining the exoskeleton with my trained armement haki I should be able to use flammes hotter than before"

That was referring to his time skip training.

 

[Ask D question]

He said if he pairs his exoskeleton with his armament haki training, he should be able to withstand hotter flames. “Armament haki training” could easily mean what he learned from Iva. Like I said, it’s open to interpretation but I think he meant his 2 year training personally so to me, that line doesn’t prove that he trained it in wano

It depends on the translation

In the fantranslation it's "armement haki training"

The official one has "developed armement haki"

The spoiler translation had "trained armement haki"

Two out of three of these translations imply that he trained off screen

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

I mean he did beat a high veteran level fighter in Yonji. The only issue is it was off screen and people instantly downplayed Yonji after

I... actually forgot this happened.I think many people may not have paid attention because the whole confrontation was entirely off-screen

 

[Finalbeta]

I actually was hoping he would empower the weaker SHs as well, not Zoro and Sanji and a few other alone.

If anything he made the powering up look legitimate for most of them except for the one power creeping Luffy underwent post being defeated the first time on the rooftop which felt kinda forced and defying to me. 🤔

 

[Sir Yasheen]

I... actually forgot this happened.I think many people may not have paid attention because the whole confrontation was entirely off-screen

Yeah most people just forgot. Sanji was portrayed as a low commander level fighter in WCI. But due to Germa downplay people think Sanji went from sub veteran to peak commander tier out of nowhere.

 

[Ask D question]

That was referring to his time skip training.

Why not just call it simply "armement haki", he didn't say "with my trained observation haki I should be able to locate kinemon" during punk hazard

He's clearly not referring to his ts training, and obviously the strawhats train off screen

 

[Z-Saber]

I mean he did beat a high veteran level fighter in Yonji. The only issue is it was off screen and people instantly downplayed Yonji after

Yonji is kinda ass though. Judge lowkey has better feats even though it’s implied all the vinsmoke siblings are stronger than him

 

[Ask D question]

Where and when did he do that? This is exactly what I mean by Sanji fans and their headcannon. We know Zoro trained his haki in Wano off screen because we got glimpses of it same with Luffy.

When did we get anything regarding Sanji training at all in Wano? He fought Page One and wore the RS, then save Tama in the RS which somehow awakened his Germa genetic powers.

The fact that Sanji fans make shit up in order to put him on the level of Zoro actually makes him look weaker.

Post automatically merged: Jan 21, 2022

It’s a reach. Why would Sanji be the only SH to train off screen in Wano without any clear reference to the training?

Because wano is a long ass arc and sanji didn't need to train with the raid suit like zoro had to train with enma

So obviously something as basic as armement haki training gets off screened

 

[Z-Saber]

It depends on the translation

In the fantranslation it's "armement haki training"

The official one has "developed armement haki"

The spoiler translation had "trained armement haki"

Two out of three of these translations imply that he trained off screen

Spoiler translation doesn’t count
Developed armament haki could also be referring to the fact that he developed it over the timeskip. If anything the official translation hints to it even further in my mind.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Yonji is kinda ass though. Judge lowkey has better feats even though it’s implied all the vinsmoke siblings are stronger than him

It’s implied the opposite. Judge is well above them

 

[Ask D question]

Spoiler translation doesn’t count
Developed armament haki could also be referring to the fact that he developed it over the timeskip. If anything the official translation hints to it even further in my mind.

I guess it depends on your opinion on the topic

Imo there's no point in referring to the training he received if it wasn't recent given how he never mentioned it before when using haki

 

[DonWick]

Why not just call it simply "armement haki", he didn't say "with my trained observation haki I should be able to locate kinemon" during punk hazard

He's clearly not referring to his ts training, and obviously the strawhats train off screen

Because he’s using a new attack and Oda is trying to explainin how it works to the readers. The CoA that he developed during the TS + the exoskeleton + speed.

You can take it like that if you want but I disagree.

 

[Ask D question]

Because he’s using a new attack and Oda is trying to explainin how it works to the readers. The CoA that he developed during the TS + the exoskeleton + speed.

You can take it like that if you want but I disagree.

Like I said, he never mentioned his haki training before

It's the first time he ever mentions it and it's months after the timeskip

 

[Z-Saber]

Because he’s using a new attack and Oda is trying to explainin how it works to the readers. The CoA that he developed during the TS + the exoskeleton + speed.

You can take it like that if you want but I disagree.

Like I said, he never mentioned his haki training before

It's the first time he ever mentions it and it's months after the timeskip

Training in wano specifically aside though, his haki probably is naturally stronger than it was during WCI and other arcs prior because that’s just how one piece works. It’s probably not by a big margin or anything but he should be at least a little stronger in wano than he was in WCI pre exoskeleton.

 

[DonWick]

Like I said, he never mentioned his haki training before

It's the first time he ever mentions it and it's months after the timeskip

Luffy didn’t use Gear 4 or mention it until Dresrossa he still learned it during the time skip.

Post automatically merged: Jan 21, 2022

Training in wano specifically aside though, his haki probably is naturally stronger than it was during WCI and other arcs prior because that’s just how one piece works. It’s probably not by a big margin or anything but he should be at least a little stronger in wano than he was in WCI pre exoskeleton.

If you assume his battle with Yonji BM Pirates & Page One caused it to bloom. I don’t think so just because he didn’t have any real fights to push his haki to bloom. I think the exoskeleton kind of made up for his CoA not being the best.

Maybe your right though Law didn’t do anything and got a buff out of no where.

 

[The White Crane]

I definitely think Oda could have handled the straw hats progression better. Problem is that for most of post-timeskip he only focused on Luffy's growth. Sanji's first actual fight and W in the New World is against a YC2 (I ain't counting ambiguous off-screen stuff like P1), kind of odd. It would have been nice if Oda let him beat a high level vet fighter like Perospero in WCI.
But the worst offender that will cause a shitstorm in the entire is fandom didn't happen yet.
Imagine if the weaklings manage to take down BB's captains in 1 vs 1 when Oda has been refusing to let them beat anybody above fodder level for the entirety of the post-timeskip, an entire decade.

Usopp beating Augur and Nami beating Lafitte would be a shitstorm.

 

[Z-Saber]

Luffy didn’t use Gear 4 or mention it until Dresrossa he still learned it during the time skip.

Post automatically merged: Jan 21, 2022

If you assume his battle with Yonji BM Pirates & Page One caused it to bloom. I don’t think so just because he didn’t have any real fights to push his haki to bloom. I think the exoskeleton kind of made up for his CoA not being the best.

Maybe your right though Law didn’t do anything and got a buff out of no where.

True, I’m mostly referring to what Zoro said in water 7 though about how they’ve gotten stronger with every island they’ve gone to. I think Sanji at the start of wano is only very slightly stronger than WCI Sanji because of that.

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

Usopp beating Augur and Nami beating Lafitte would be a shitstorm.

Them beating any BB commander whoever it is would be a shitstorm. But blame would 100% lie on Oda. as instead of showing they could be able to take such foes, Oda chose to hightlight their weakness in Wano to the point I wonder if we're even getting SHs vs Blackbeard pirates 1 vs 1 .