General & Others Oda's Worst Writing: Creation of Fraud Guild
- Thread starter Xione
- Start date
Over the years, I've defended Oda's writing on many aspects. Whether it be post-TS in general being better than pre-TS (which to me grossly overrated) whether it be specific character choices with characters like Oden. But I've also been very critical of certain things regard Oda's writing, primarily his over usage of the same gags throughout the series, rather than developing. And other things like bad writing with the Scabbards during Onigashima. However, post-Onigashima... some of my favorite things happened, we had the flame emperor/Boa & Teach/ Shanks & GB/ Borsalino & Akainu/etc, loved all of that. However among all those great things, he did his most atrocious piece of fucking writing so far, with the Fraud Guild. So let's get right into it.
(And I really wanted to get this outta the way, since I'm making a thread or two on Oda's best written works in the series, so best to get the negative criticism outta the way first.)
What is an emperor of the seas?
During chapter 432, Garp explains to us what emperors are. They're the 4 greatest pirates in the world, who live in the 2nd half of the grandline... and the key part here... "They rule the lands there with an iron grip".. These are individuals who are essentially "monarchs" but without formal titles of a king or w.e, and due to their control over vast land people call them emperors. Something Oda establishes with the original 4:
Shanks - having many islands under him, with them bearing his flag.
Newgate - having many islands under him
Big Mom - having a whole Kingdom essentially
Kaido - ruling over a country with a massive army + other territories.
Then he also further doubles down on this concept of ruling over massive land making somebody an emperor, and not just being powerful or having powerful crew... with:
Let's look at everything Blackbeard had to do to become "Emperor":
-> He got the strongest logia + gura gura that made WB the "WSM"
-> He got Shiryuu, somebody who alongside Magellan made impel down impenetrable. Shiryuu who Teach treated akin to Kuzan during Dressrosa.
-> He raids ID and attained 3 individuals who right now in their primes with 1 of them having a mythical DF, considered to be "legendary pirates" who "shook the world" by Ivankov, who is YC1-3 equivalent.
-> He also attained Pizzaro, a person akin to those legendary pirates.
-> Then in an overwhelming fashion he destroyed the remnants of WB pirates.
-> AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, he took over most of Whitebeard's territories.
So now we have established what Oda going into Wano, had established as an emperor of the sea. Strong pirates with armadas who rule vast amounts of territory in the New World. Now this is part of the reason why many of us in the past said, Luffy wouldn't be a Yonko, he's gonna be Great Pirate and then PK. But of course, Oda did what he did... which leads us to the topic of the thread... the newest Yonko crew, Cross Guild aka Fraud Guild.
FRAUD GUILD:
Let's look at how this faction came to be. Crocodile hits up Mihawk and asks him to join up with him. Mihawk thinks for few minutes and joins up, then proceeds to leave to where Buggy and co were. Then while Buggy and his bums are surrounded by a Marine fleet. The Bumodile and Bum Bonez come in with with their gimmick fruits. But since Buggy took a loan to start his little organization, he now had to pay Crocodile back, but being the bum that Buggy is, he of course ain't have that money. Now he's under Crocodile's control. Then Dracule comes in as well.
So resulting in an organization with: 1 GOATED Top Tier + 2 Bums, as their main leaders.
Now let's head over to how they came to be recognized as emperors. Shall we take a look at the genius behind them becoming emperors, that doesn't involve taking a giant dump on the entire World Government & Marines as a faction, along with destroying all credibility of Dracule Mihawk:
#1. Buggy and the genius Marines/World Government: So we have here is the marines with their vast intel network, still after 2 years worth of time to research deeply, still believing that Buggy was the ringleader of the impel down mass breakout, and not Luffy or Ivankov. After Buggy had been under the World Government as a warlord for 2 years, ample time to judge his prowess. The marines truly believed that he once stood shoulder to shoulder with Shanks.
Now most of this shit is essentially coming from this panel by Buggy where he's broadcasting himself to be a member of Roger's crew & blood brother of Shanks. Which then gets confirmed more with how he talks to Shanks:
Now, if it had ended there and Buggy went away from MF, sure it's understandable. But you see after Sengoku sees this clown broadcasting himself, he orders the marines to take care of him. But after Squardo does his thing on Whitebeard. And the broadcast is still going on, Sengoku immediately orders Kuzan, who essentially insta-blitzes:
And what happens as a result? This:
So the entire marines watching this goofy bum get fodderized. Kuzan doing it personally. Sengoku ordering him to. Then after this he becomes a Warlord. And how does somebody become a warlord? Because the World Government assesses their strength and gives them that title. The World Government/marines even meet with the warlords, so they'd know 1st hand basis how strong that pirate is. Which is how Sengoku respects Hancock's strength. Which is why Moriah got taken out of the warlord system:
But guess what? After 2 fucking years and seeing the MF shit, Marines & World Government were incapable of properly gauging the true strength of one of their "powerful weapons". Instead they simply used the BS he spoke on the den den mushi as the certainty. 10/10 writing on how to make the biggest military faction of your fictional-verse look like complete incompetent dumbfucks. But it doesn't stop there no, these dumbfucks assume who the leader of the faction is based on a got damn poster. WHAT?! An organization like the WG with CP 0-9 at their command couldn't figure out this bum's reality in 2 years despite him being on of their weapons?!? FS Oda.
#2. Crocodile & the Marines/World Government: Oda already stated in the SBS his bounty with everything regarding baroque workers being known about him, his bounty would've been around 250 mil max, this is after decades on the seas. But oh wait a minute, this man's picture is next to Dracule Mihawk!!!!! He's somebody who's strong enough to form a partnership with the strongest swordsman!!!! Oh he's also got connections with criminal organizations?! He's got leadership, DAMN!!! Damn he's strong! He's stronger than Marco The Phoenix, the man who served as WB's right hand man for years!! Superior to the WSC's right hand man!!! Based on? Oh nearly getting K.O'd by a basic diamond shoulder tackle by Jozu. Then being a bum for rest of the war. For the decades he was under our power we couldn't gauge this man's power, but now he's above all the renowned combatants of the world in bounty because his picture is next to the WSS and right under an equal of Shanks!!!!! (For those who think Oda retconned his powers or w.e until there is actual evidence he did I have 0 reason to believe so. His logia powers were extremely deadly in alabasta compared to anything he showed at MF. The issue with crocodile had never been the power of his logia. It had always been CQC.)
#3. Hot dump on Dracule Mihawk:
O: "So instead of making Mihawk the outright leader of a faction, because that'll hurt his "lonewolf" persona. Guess what I'm gonna have him do readers."
O: "Did you guess it yet?"
R: OOoo you're gonna make him join RHP, Oda?! Ohhhh you're gonna make him actually relevant in grand scheme of things and join the RA?!!
O: "..... ahahahhahaa you foolish readers NO!, What i'll do is have him join up with a fodder bum like Crocodile, then have the world think he's an underling to Buggy!!! AHAHAHA GENIUS PLOT TWIST, HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT READERS?!!"
R: "...But why would Mihawk join Crocodile to form an organization, instead of living for the thrill like you implied he wanted to?"
O: "hehehehehe, oh you naive naive readers, that's because from now on Mihawk doesn't seek to fight the strong challenges!! He simply wants to live in peace!"
R: "But just few weeks ago he was excited to be the hunted now?? You told us in the vivre card he's eager to fight somebody stronger than Shanks and is waiting on such an opponent... why does he all of a sudden want to form a marine hunting organization?"
O: "it's a cool twist guys!!!!!! Come on you all love the OP world thinking Buggy is his superior and crocodile is somebody of similar standing as him!!"
Yet what is going on behind the scenes? Everything goes as Mihawk says. Neither crocodile or buggy disobey him. Mihawks wants to keep Buggy alive so he can stay low and live peacefully, cool. He accepts. But then mr.PeaceHawk also forms an organization who call for the witchhunt of individuals who try to protect civilians from criminals. So this mf has essentially gone from being the lonewolf to being the secret head of an organization that can be described as evil.
Let's simply look at the damn hot potato Oda is playing with Buggy's character in the Cross Guild scene. First he's threatening Buggy with the sword, telling him that not killing him is not an option. Why? Cause of what the dumbfucks in the marines assumed based on the poster.
Few seconds later...oh nah let him live, I just want to live a quiet life:
Becoming Emperors:
Now the big issue, and how Oda just took a giant turd and and just rubbed it all over the core factions of his series. So I already explains the buffooneries written for the marines in the scenario. But this Buffoonery continues when they acknowledge this mf Buggy as an emperor of the sea... after how long? Oh just few days. What in the blue... fuck? This bum gets made into an emperor before he even officially introduces Mihawk & Crocodile to his underlings. WHAT?
Teach/Newgate/Shanks/BM/Kaidoetc spents years on years stocking up that territory, attaining military, attaining allies. BUT No... you can now be a Yonko within 7 days, with your only island being Emptee Bluff Island. Absolutely 0 regard for the credibility of other characters, all to pull off a dumbass gag for 2 bum characters, who're getting carried by Peacehawk.
The reason why Buggy being a Warlord was never an issue was because it was a government position being used to deter weaker pirates from joining up with the yonko or eliminating them. And for that all you needed was Buggy's false perception to the world that he put out there before the broadcast got canceled. So basically the World Government could've known Buggy was a bum fodder, but due to his reputation they could've made a usage out of him.
Conclusion:
This is simply the worst thing Oda has written in this manga. Completely destroying the credibility of the Marines and the Yonko, and just murking all over Mihawk's character. And the end result of this faction led by Buggy being what? Yup fed to Blackbeard alongside Buggy's bestie Shanks, so Teach can become the greatest pirate threat in history, since taking down just RHP won't accomplish that. The inevitable clash already pretty much foreshadowed now that all 3 of them are emperors of the sea.
Is the issue Buggy in general becoming an emperor? No. The issue is in the manner he was made an emperor. The writing that was used to create that result of Buggy.
Anywho this is my short little nitpick on Oda's bad writing post-TS. Now moving on to Oda's good writing thread. Oh let me know how y'all feel about Cross Guild, writing wise not cool factor wise. Since I know many of y'all love characters like Buggy and Crocodile, and that some Mihawk fans think it's so cool he's in the Cross Guild. However, from a writing point of view, I'm curious to hear all of y'alls opinion.
(If somebody wants to quote me on something go ahead, but won't be giving any replies, since I have 0 interest in arguing over this).
(And I really wanted to get this outta the way, since I'm making a thread or two on Oda's best written works in the series, so best to get the negative criticism outta the way first.)
What is an emperor of the seas?
During chapter 432, Garp explains to us what emperors are. They're the 4 greatest pirates in the world, who live in the 2nd half of the grandline... and the key part here... "They rule the lands there with an iron grip".. These are individuals who are essentially "monarchs" but without formal titles of a king or w.e, and due to their control over vast land people call them emperors. Something Oda establishes with the original 4:
Shanks - having many islands under him, with them bearing his flag.
Newgate - having many islands under him
Big Mom - having a whole Kingdom essentially
Kaido - ruling over a country with a massive army + other territories.
Then he also further doubles down on this concept of ruling over massive land making somebody an emperor, and not just being powerful or having powerful crew... with:
Let's look at everything Blackbeard had to do to become "Emperor":
-> He got the strongest logia + gura gura that made WB the "WSM"
-> He got Shiryuu, somebody who alongside Magellan made impel down impenetrable. Shiryuu who Teach treated akin to Kuzan during Dressrosa.
-> He raids ID and attained 3 individuals who right now in their primes with 1 of them having a mythical DF, considered to be "legendary pirates" who "shook the world" by Ivankov, who is YC1-3 equivalent.
-> He also attained Pizzaro, a person akin to those legendary pirates.
-> Then in an overwhelming fashion he destroyed the remnants of WB pirates.
-> AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, he took over most of Whitebeard's territories.
So now we have established what Oda going into Wano, had established as an emperor of the sea. Strong pirates with armadas who rule vast amounts of territory in the New World. Now this is part of the reason why many of us in the past said, Luffy wouldn't be a Yonko, he's gonna be Great Pirate and then PK. But of course, Oda did what he did... which leads us to the topic of the thread... the newest Yonko crew, Cross Guild aka Fraud Guild.
FRAUD GUILD:
Let's look at how this faction came to be. Crocodile hits up Mihawk and asks him to join up with him. Mihawk thinks for few minutes and joins up, then proceeds to leave to where Buggy and co were. Then while Buggy and his bums are surrounded by a Marine fleet. The Bumodile and Bum Bonez come in with with their gimmick fruits. But since Buggy took a loan to start his little organization, he now had to pay Crocodile back, but being the bum that Buggy is, he of course ain't have that money. Now he's under Crocodile's control. Then Dracule comes in as well.
So resulting in an organization with: 1 GOATED Top Tier + 2 Bums, as their main leaders.
Now let's head over to how they came to be recognized as emperors. Shall we take a look at the genius behind them becoming emperors, that doesn't involve taking a giant dump on the entire World Government & Marines as a faction, along with destroying all credibility of Dracule Mihawk:
#1. Buggy and the genius Marines/World Government: So we have here is the marines with their vast intel network, still after 2 years worth of time to research deeply, still believing that Buggy was the ringleader of the impel down mass breakout, and not Luffy or Ivankov. After Buggy had been under the World Government as a warlord for 2 years, ample time to judge his prowess. The marines truly believed that he once stood shoulder to shoulder with Shanks.
Now most of this shit is essentially coming from this panel by Buggy where he's broadcasting himself to be a member of Roger's crew & blood brother of Shanks. Which then gets confirmed more with how he talks to Shanks:
Now, if it had ended there and Buggy went away from MF, sure it's understandable. But you see after Sengoku sees this clown broadcasting himself, he orders the marines to take care of him. But after Squardo does his thing on Whitebeard. And the broadcast is still going on, Sengoku immediately orders Kuzan, who essentially insta-blitzes:
And what happens as a result? This:
So the entire marines watching this goofy bum get fodderized. Kuzan doing it personally. Sengoku ordering him to. Then after this he becomes a Warlord. And how does somebody become a warlord? Because the World Government assesses their strength and gives them that title. The World Government/marines even meet with the warlords, so they'd know 1st hand basis how strong that pirate is. Which is how Sengoku respects Hancock's strength. Which is why Moriah got taken out of the warlord system:
But guess what? After 2 fucking years and seeing the MF shit, Marines & World Government were incapable of properly gauging the true strength of one of their "powerful weapons". Instead they simply used the BS he spoke on the den den mushi as the certainty. 10/10 writing on how to make the biggest military faction of your fictional-verse look like complete incompetent dumbfucks. But it doesn't stop there no, these dumbfucks assume who the leader of the faction is based on a got damn poster. WHAT?! An organization like the WG with CP 0-9 at their command couldn't figure out this bum's reality in 2 years despite him being on of their weapons?!? FS Oda.
#2. Crocodile & the Marines/World Government: Oda already stated in the SBS his bounty with everything regarding baroque workers being known about him, his bounty would've been around 250 mil max, this is after decades on the seas. But oh wait a minute, this man's picture is next to Dracule Mihawk!!!!! He's somebody who's strong enough to form a partnership with the strongest swordsman!!!! Oh he's also got connections with criminal organizations?! He's got leadership, DAMN!!! Damn he's strong! He's stronger than Marco The Phoenix, the man who served as WB's right hand man for years!! Superior to the WSC's right hand man!!! Based on? Oh nearly getting K.O'd by a basic diamond shoulder tackle by Jozu. Then being a bum for rest of the war. For the decades he was under our power we couldn't gauge this man's power, but now he's above all the renowned combatants of the world in bounty because his picture is next to the WSS and right under an equal of Shanks!!!!! (For those who think Oda retconned his powers or w.e until there is actual evidence he did I have 0 reason to believe so. His logia powers were extremely deadly in alabasta compared to anything he showed at MF. The issue with crocodile had never been the power of his logia. It had always been CQC.)
#3. Hot dump on Dracule Mihawk:
O: "So instead of making Mihawk the outright leader of a faction, because that'll hurt his "lonewolf" persona. Guess what I'm gonna have him do readers."
O: "Did you guess it yet?"
R: OOoo you're gonna make him join RHP, Oda?! Ohhhh you're gonna make him actually relevant in grand scheme of things and join the RA?!!
O: "..... ahahahhahaa you foolish readers NO!, What i'll do is have him join up with a fodder bum like Crocodile, then have the world think he's an underling to Buggy!!! AHAHAHA GENIUS PLOT TWIST, HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT READERS?!!"
R: "...But why would Mihawk join Crocodile to form an organization, instead of living for the thrill like you implied he wanted to?"
O: "hehehehehe, oh you naive naive readers, that's because from now on Mihawk doesn't seek to fight the strong challenges!! He simply wants to live in peace!"
R: "But just few weeks ago he was excited to be the hunted now?? You told us in the vivre card he's eager to fight somebody stronger than Shanks and is waiting on such an opponent... why does he all of a sudden want to form a marine hunting organization?"
O: "it's a cool twist guys!!!!!! Come on you all love the OP world thinking Buggy is his superior and crocodile is somebody of similar standing as him!!"
Yet what is going on behind the scenes? Everything goes as Mihawk says. Neither crocodile or buggy disobey him. Mihawks wants to keep Buggy alive so he can stay low and live peacefully, cool. He accepts. But then mr.PeaceHawk also forms an organization who call for the witchhunt of individuals who try to protect civilians from criminals. So this mf has essentially gone from being the lonewolf to being the secret head of an organization that can be described as evil.
Let's simply look at the damn hot potato Oda is playing with Buggy's character in the Cross Guild scene. First he's threatening Buggy with the sword, telling him that not killing him is not an option. Why? Cause of what the dumbfucks in the marines assumed based on the poster.
Few seconds later...oh nah let him live, I just want to live a quiet life:
Becoming Emperors:
Now the big issue, and how Oda just took a giant turd and and just rubbed it all over the core factions of his series. So I already explains the buffooneries written for the marines in the scenario. But this Buffoonery continues when they acknowledge this mf Buggy as an emperor of the sea... after how long? Oh just few days. What in the blue... fuck? This bum gets made into an emperor before he even officially introduces Mihawk & Crocodile to his underlings. WHAT?
Teach/Newgate/Shanks/BM/Kaidoetc spents years on years stocking up that territory, attaining military, attaining allies. BUT No... you can now be a Yonko within 7 days, with your only island being Emptee Bluff Island. Absolutely 0 regard for the credibility of other characters, all to pull off a dumbass gag for 2 bum characters, who're getting carried by Peacehawk.
The reason why Buggy being a Warlord was never an issue was because it was a government position being used to deter weaker pirates from joining up with the yonko or eliminating them. And for that all you needed was Buggy's false perception to the world that he put out there before the broadcast got canceled. So basically the World Government could've known Buggy was a bum fodder, but due to his reputation they could've made a usage out of him.
Conclusion:
This is simply the worst thing Oda has written in this manga. Completely destroying the credibility of the Marines and the Yonko, and just murking all over Mihawk's character. And the end result of this faction led by Buggy being what? Yup fed to Blackbeard alongside Buggy's bestie Shanks, so Teach can become the greatest pirate threat in history, since taking down just RHP won't accomplish that. The inevitable clash already pretty much foreshadowed now that all 3 of them are emperors of the sea.
Is the issue Buggy in general becoming an emperor? No. The issue is in the manner he was made an emperor. The writing that was used to create that result of Buggy.
Anywho this is my short little nitpick on Oda's bad writing post-TS. Now moving on to Oda's good writing thread. Oh let me know how y'all feel about Cross Guild, writing wise not cool factor wise. Since I know many of y'all love characters like Buggy and Crocodile, and that some Mihawk fans think it's so cool he's in the Cross Guild. However, from a writing point of view, I'm curious to hear all of y'alls opinion.
(If somebody wants to quote me on something go ahead, but won't be giving any replies, since I have 0 interest in arguing over this).
Yonko system should have been dispanded after wano. I love cross guild but they just are a criminal organisation not a yonko crew due to being to weak. Only have 1 top tier(Mihawk), one yc lvl (Crocodile), one veteran lvl (Daz Bones) and thousands of fodders.
2)I disagree about mihawk though. Its been long established that he is a lone wolf who just wants to fight strong swordmen. If marines dont leave him alone, then he should be in an organisation in which he doesnt have much authority and wil be able to use it as a shield against them. Cross guild serves perfectly that purpose and crocodile knew that. Why to go in shanks crew. That would make him look pathetic and would damage his pride.
Mihawk was always a trash character
Claims he is bored:
Claims he is bored:
- Declines a fight from Shanks, after the last time they fought Shanks was just some scrub with less than 1bil bounty
- Doesn't go fight any top tiers
He know East Blue fodder ZoLo will surpass mere Yonko Lhanks 
Is that why he avoided every top tier for over 1000+ chapters but had smoke for fodders such as Krieg? You're probably onto suttn here
What about Krieg, Mr 1, Vista and Crocodile??? Did he know those guys would surpass a mere Yonko in Lhanks
Is that why he avoided every top tier for over 1000+ chapters but had smoke for fodders such as Krieg? You're probably onto suttn here
Is that why he avoided every top tier for over 1000+ chapters but had smoke for fodders such as Krieg? You're probably onto suttn here
Mihawk don't hide in natural fortress Wano or switch islands all times or use armies as buffer.
Why are you expecting "Perfection" in every faction/characters decisions and thoughts? The Marines being competent or incompetent is a part of their organization and has been a theme since East Blue Saga.
What if they had no choice but to accept Buggy as a Warlord because they lost 3 ever since MF "BB Jimbei and Moria".
You are also underestimating Buggy's luck here.. And Luck plays a big part in the story too "Luffy and Ussop kept highlighting Luck as the story kept going".
Mihawk and his "Peaceful/Quieter" Life choice:-
"But then mr.PeaceHawk also forms an organization who call for the witchhunt of individuals who try to protect civilians from criminals "
Well didn't the previous reveal "hunting marines" also explains that what he means by peaceful life is only for himself? his conversations with Perona actually shows that he cares not for anyone else but himself.
Why would they even issue a bounty for him in the 1st place? because he was criminal too.
As for Crocodile :-
Marco's bounty being lower than Crocodile
- Marco is an underling and a strong one with a mythical fruit but has no ambition.
- Crocodile is a dangerous individual who Smoker unveiled to the Marines his association with Robin which means "Dangerous ideals".
- And attempting to take over a country that is associated with WG and him looking for Pluton could have also been revealed to the WG.
- His mindset and him being a strategist is dangerous too and Marco to the WG has no such ideas.
- His fruit has the potential to one shot opponents.
What if they had no choice but to accept Buggy as a Warlord because they lost 3 ever since MF "BB Jimbei and Moria".
You are also underestimating Buggy's luck here.. And Luck plays a big part in the story too "Luffy and Ussop kept highlighting Luck as the story kept going".
Mihawk and his "Peaceful/Quieter" Life choice:-
"But then mr.PeaceHawk also forms an organization who call for the witchhunt of individuals who try to protect civilians from criminals "
Well didn't the previous reveal "hunting marines" also explains that what he means by peaceful life is only for himself? his conversations with Perona actually shows that he cares not for anyone else but himself.
Why would they even issue a bounty for him in the 1st place? because he was criminal too.
As for Crocodile :-
Marco's bounty being lower than Crocodile
- Marco is an underling and a strong one with a mythical fruit but has no ambition.
- Crocodile is a dangerous individual who Smoker unveiled to the Marines his association with Robin which means "Dangerous ideals".
- And attempting to take over a country that is associated with WG and him looking for Pluton could have also been revealed to the WG.
- His mindset and him being a strategist is dangerous too and Marco to the WG has no such ideas.
- His fruit has the potential to one shot opponents.
If this happens I really wanted to see how the community will justify that the thing that is present as the pinnacle of the Pirate world and the goal of the main character turns out to be a gag
Agreed. Mihawk has always been flippant, indifferent, capricious, and a bit lazy. He'll make rational sacrifices for the sake of peace and quiet, like letting Z&P stay with him, or even becoming a Warlord in the first place.
I don't think anything has been ruined. There are plenty of issues in OP, but Cross Guild isn't one of them.
I don't think anything has been ruined. There are plenty of issues in OP, but Cross Guild isn't one of them.
