Powers & Abilities Oden and Kaido surpassed Whitbeard and Roger | full analysis

[MarineHQ]

You guys were saying the same about Kaido's title since it wasn't in a special box. Whitbeard being the strongest wasn't confirmed by the narrator ether so what?

WB was literally introduced with his title in an intro box the first time we saw him, wasn't he?

- Sengoku confirmed it in the manga just like Killer did this chapter. So Killers opinion shall not be questioned, but Sengoku who was 80 years of dealing with the most notorious pirates in the world will?

Furthermore it was confirmed in the volumes ( short character description) and Databook.

 

[Master OF Haki]

Indeed. After hundreds of chapters, Oda decided to give Kaido/Big mom the same impact during their clash as Oldbeard/Shanks while Roger and Primebeard did something never ever seen before.

We don't know what it was? As far as I can say it was a lot armament haki.
Funny enough, we never saw the Yonko use haki In their clash so it is possible that they can do the same.

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2020

WB was literally introduced with his title in an intro box the first time we saw him, wasn't he?

- Sengoku confirmed it in the manga just like Killer did this chapter. So Killers opinion shall not be questioned, but Sengoku who was 80 years of dealing with the most notorious pirates in the world will?

Furthermore it was confirmed in the volumes ( short character description) and Databook.

Wh was The world strongest man while Kaido is the world's strongest creature and the strongest in 1v1 fights. Yes, Whitbeard could destroy the earth with his DF but Kaido is the strongest in 1v1. Nowhere it says that Whitbeard was the "strongest in the world" not by the narrator.

 

[MarineHQ]

We don't know what it was? As far as I can say it was a lot armament haki.
Funny enough, we never saw the Yonko use haki In their clash so it is possible that they can do the same.

It was indeed armament Haki and their clash not only split the sky, but send a shockwave that blasted everything, whether it was the sky, the ocean or the island, away.

I'm just saying. Primebeard and Roger had a superior clash to that of the Yonkou.

 

[Kaido D. Stronger]

Indeed. After hundreds of chapters, Oda decided to give Kaido/Big mom the same impact during their clash as Oldbeard/Shanks while Roger and Primebeard did something never ever seen before.

Kaido being the best of 1v1 he is probably better than Roger and WB ...
Let's try to take this as a fact.
If kaido is the best of 1v1.
why should I think WB and Roger are better than him in 1v1, if nothing has been said about them being the best in an individual fight against kaido?
The genius of 1v1 here is kaido and not WB and Roger.
If I were to say in%, I would say that the chances of kaido is higher than WB and Roger in any 1v1 fight, including between Kaido and Roger, and Kaido and WB.

 

[Master OF Haki]

It was indeed armament Haki and their clash not only split the sky, but send a shockwave that blasted everything, whether it was the sky, the ocean or the island, away.

I'm just saying. Primebeard and Roger had a superior clash to that of the Yonkou.

And I'm saying that Yonko didn't use armament haki in their clash unlike Roger and Whitbeard but it doesn't mean that they can't do the same.

Look, even Big Mom and Kaido don't use armament haki, Oda is hiding their haki.

 

[MarineHQ]

Kaido being the best of 1v1 he is probably better than Roger and WB ...
Let's try to take this as a fact.
If kaido is the best of 1v1.
why should I think WB and Roger are better than him in 1v1, if nothing has been said about them being the best in an individual fight against kaido?
The genius of 1v1 here is kaido and not WB and Roger.

But WB and Roger are dead, they don't count since they can longer fight a 1v1.

Bro, let me ask you, why was there not any mention of Kaido's 1v1 hype or any of that sort before ?
Because WB was alive. He was generally seen as the strongest, we have countless statements from people even close to Kaido confirming that.

Big mom, Doflamingo, Garp, Sengoku, Buggy etc all elevated the name of WB above Kaido. I mean, Big mom literally said that taking down WB is a harder task than beating her rival, Kaido.

That was not a matter of " He is the greater pirate"

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2020

And I'm saying that Yonko didn't use armament haki in their clash unlike Roger and Whitbeard but it doesn't mean that they can't do the same.

Look, even Big Mom and Kaido don't use armament haki, Oda is hiding their haki.

But Primebeard and Roger have that feat. The difference between them is, one has that feat confirmed while we can only speculate that the Yonkou may be able to do the same.

I'm just saying, for now Primebeard and Rogers's clash looks and is superior.
What reason do i have to elevate Kaido and even Oden above Primebeard or Roger?

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2020

Look, even Big Mom and Kaido don't use armament haki, Oda is hiding their haki.

For what reason?
Big mom already used it.

 

[Master OF Haki]

Big mom literally said that taking down WB is a harder task than beating her rival, Kaido.

She didn't say that, she said that "even Whitbeard" which could be about a lot of things: for example, his legendary status, military strength, crew strength etc. Whitbeard was never hyped in 1v1, fact.

 

[Kaido D. Stronger]

But WB and Roger are dead, they don't count since they can longer fight a 1v1.

Bro, let me ask you, why was there not any mention of Kaido's 1v1 hype or any of that sort before ?
Because WB was alive. He was generally seen as the strongest, we have countless statements from people even close to Kaido confirming that.

Big mom, Doflamingo, Garp, Sengoku, Buggy etc all elevated the name of WB above Kaido. I mean, Big mom literally said that taking down WB is a harder task than beating her rival, Kaido.

That was not a matter of " He is the greater pirate"

Do you know when the popular saying about it came about?
Yes, I believe it was before the death of WB, and when he was becoming an emperor by the individual strength mentioned by Sengoku.
At this time it should be PRIEM WB which is = Roger.

If they doubted that prime WB couldn't beat Kaido in 1v1, Roger couldn't either.
I'm talking about individual strength, 1v1 enters captains, defeating includes a number of things, for example kaido may have a weaker band than the WB.That makes it easier to get knocked down.
But this does not mean that he is weaker.
the gang matters, do you know why? When BIG MOM came to wano, Kaido was not worried about her, but yes, if she brought some of her commanders, soon after he released BIG MOM for 1v1, then the danger and apparently Kaido's fear is that while he is fighting the 1v1 captain, his entire pack can lose and leave him alone.
This looks like a defeat, and your last way is to surrender and let yourself be captured.

 

[LadyVados]

Tho he's the strongest character currently

He’s the strongest pirate currently

Killer also doesn’t know the Shichibukai system was eliminated.

 

[Master OF Haki]

I'm just saying, for now Primebeard and Rogers's clash looks and is superior.

I agree that as of right now their clash looks superior, but you have to, just have to consider the fact that Yonko haven't used Armoment haki in their clash, so it isn't an evidence until proven otherwise.

What reason do i have to elevate Kaido and even Oden above Primebeard or Roger?

All of this and more is in the thread itself.
Btw. Not necessarily above but on their level.

 

[MarineHQ]

She didn't say that, she said that "even Whitbeard" which could be about a lot of things: for example, his legendary status, military strength, crew strength etc. Whitbeard was never hyped in 1v1, fact.

Or it could simply be his individual strength?
Big mom definitely put a gab between the difficulty of taking down WB in comparison to Shanks or Kaido.

We know that Shanks has stronger crew members and from what we saw Big mom's crew has at least equal fire power compared to WB, so what else can it be?

 

[Master OF Haki]

Or it could simply be his individual strength?
Big mom definitely put a gab between the difficulty of taking down WB in comparison to Shanks or Kaido.

We know that Shanks has stronger crew members and from what we saw Big mom's crew has at least equal fire power compared to WB, so what else can it be?

Maybe the DF that can literally destroy the entire earth.

 

[Kaido D. Stronger]

Or it could simply be his individual strength?
Big mom definitely put a gab between the difficulty of taking down WB in comparison to Shanks or Kaido.

We know that Shanks has stronger crew members and from what we saw Big mom's crew has at least equal fire power compared to WB, so what else can it be?

The fall of both includes a number of factors, mainly the difference between the flocks (strength).

 

[MarineHQ]

I agree that as of right now their clash looks superior, but you have to, just have to consider the fact that Yonko haven't used Armoment haki in their clash, so it isn't an evidence until proven otherwise.

All of this and more is in the thread itself.

Oden, about 6 xears before his fight with Kaido was speechless upon witnessing the strength of Primebeard and Roger.
I really dont get how in those 6 years, Oden went from being speechless to surpassing Primebeard and Roger....especially when for 5 out of those 6 years, Oden was busy dancing on the streets.

Obviously, out of every living thing, Kaido is said to be the strongest. WB and Roger are not alive, hence, they don't fall in that category.

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2020

Maybe the DF that can literally destroy the entire earth.

Doesn't that count under an Individuals strength?

The fall of both includes a number of factors, mainly the difference between the flocks (strength).

Well Roger gave himself in and Old/sick Whitebeard fought the strongest military in the world.

I mean, their deaths were so amazing that Kaido himself is jealous of it.

 

[Kaido D. Stronger]

Oden, about 6 xears before his fight with Kaido was speechless upon witnessing the strength of Primebeard and Roger.
I really dont get how in those 6 years, Oden went from being speechless to surpassing Primebeard and Roger....especially when for 5 out of those 6 years, Oden was busy dancing on the streets.

Obviously, out of every living thing, Kaido is said to be the strongest. WB and Roger are not alive, hence, they don't fall in that category.

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2020

Doesn't that count under an Individuals strength?

Well Roger gave himself in and Old/sick Whitebeard fought the strongest military in the world.

I mean, their deaths were so amazing that Kaido himself is jealous of it.

I'm talking about the big mom. And your speech.
the gang matters, do you know why? When BIG MOM came to wano, Kaido was not worried about her, but yes, if she brought some of her commanders, soon after he released BIG MOM for 1v1, then the danger and apparently Kaido's fear is that while he is fighting the 1v1 captain, his entire pack can lose and leave him alone.
This looks like a defeat, and your last way is to surrender and let yourself be captured.
o, like it or not, even if you are the strongest in 1v1, the strength of your group is important, your military power is important. All of this influences setting the level after all and not who is the strongest in 1v1 ( individually.)

 

[Master OF Haki]

I really dont get how in those 6 years, Oden went from being speechless to surpassing Primebeard and Roger

Again, not necessarily superior or stronger, the name of the thread is a clickbait. At the very minimum Kaido and Oden were equal to Whitbeard (I'm not sure about Roger cuz I believe that he was a bit stronger than Whitbeard, by a small margin).

especially when for 5 out of those 6 years, Oden was busy dancing on the streets.

Luffy needed only two years to evolve this much, so there's a lot of room for growth. We also found out that during that time Oden was trying to teach his subordinates about Ryu, so we don't really know what he was doing outside of dancing, I'm sure there's more to come. Btw, Whitbeard reached to his prime in a period of 1/2 years only.

Doesn't that count under an Individuals strength?

No, that's the destructive power, individual strength is all about physical strength, durability, endurance etc. Otherwise Blackbeard right now is the strongest in the world.

 

[LemonadeCandy]

We know that Shanks has stronger crew members and from what we saw Big mom's crew has at least equal fire power compared to WB, so what else can it be?

Shanks might have stronger crew members but if he himself isn't as strong as WB, taking him down could still be an easier endeavor. But that still wouldn't exclude the strength of WB's crew from why managing to take him down was considered a greater feat by BM.

Anyway, if Oda really wants to tell us that Oden surpassed WB and Roger by the end of his journey, he's done a pretty sloppy job. The only direct comparison between his strength and theirs we have, is him getting blown off by Roger's strike and left speechless by the power of their clash. We do have the direct statement that he came out of his adventures several times stronger and his own belief (after witnessing Roger and WB's strength firsthand) that no one of that time would be able to beat Kaido if he fails but its all pretty hard to just accept considering we were never really shown how much he evolved. The only thing he have is a couple of lines...

 

[Master OF Haki]

Anyway, if Oda really wants to tell us that Oden surpassed WB and Roger by the end of his journey, he's done a pretty sloppy job. The only direct comparison between his strength and theirs we have, is him getting blown off by Roger's strike and left speechless by the power of their clash. We do have the direct statement that he came out of his adventures several times stronger and his own belief (after witnessing Roger and WB's strength firsthand) that no one of that time would be able to beat Kaido if he fails but its all pretty hard to just accept considering we were never really shown how much he evolved. The only thing he have is a couple of lines...

Well, to be honest the same situation is with Roger and Whitbeard being stronger than the others. The only thing we have is couple of lines.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Chapter 996, another evidence on my side, Kaido is officially "the strongest pirate" in the world/strongest creature.

Bro they just won't take the evidence. All they do is ignore it because the story doesn't have their favorite characters has current strongest. Some of these guys taught the sccabards were doing something.

 

[LemonadeCandy]

Well, to be honest the same situation is with Roger and Whitbeard being stronger than the others. The only thing we have is couple of lines.

That's true but they have had that kinda portrayal for practically the entire series while Oden is only a recent addition that Oda wants to squeeze into the upper echellon of characters that he's been building up and hyping for ages. I'm not denying that those simple lines are a solid enough proof, just saying that they are not really the most effective or impactful way of portraying Oden as one of the absolute strongest guys in the verse. It could have been handled much better...