Oden in his prime was not on the same level as Roger or WB.
The Oden-Kaido scene is one of the most overrated scenes in One Piece. I just watched it recently again. What I see is that a cocky Kaido flies around in his dragon form while Oden goes straight at him and lands a surprise blow which Kaido wasnt prepared for.
Oden basicially had a free shot on a huge target (Dragon Kaido). We also saw that base Kaido with his club was matching Oden.
Oden in his prime was on the same general level as Roger and WB. Kaido is below that level. He was about to be two shotted by Oden if not for the cheap tricks.
A similar end would happen for Kaido if he faced either WB or Roger
@Master OF Haki You're in a futile thread of arguing to walls who refuse to listen to any manner of logic and evidence and choose to stand by their own perceived notions of power when much of the landscape is utterly mired in uncertainty, discontinuity, inconsistency and straight borderline bad writing.
I do not agree with your sentiments regarding Oden but you argue with enough logic and consistency that I would actually put Oden on the same level as Roger as WB the same goes to Kaido and the other Yonko who have nothing stating that they are magically weaker in an era of greater competition.
No matter what you say and how consistent your logic is, the answer will be a "no" "I feel", "This is a joke" "That's impossible" With very little backing such statements. There is nothing in the story that states that Roger and WB are the pinnacle of strength. Strength which cannot be attained by any others before or after them (excluding the MC). They will point to WSM "Title" as proof because Buggy in a panel before Oda has thought this far proclaimed that WB is the "strongest" and only Roger matched him. Yet, we know that this engagement of theirs was nothing but a play fight and that Roger had o victories against his Top Tier rivals and only became PK due to Oden and his luck.
Additionally, if the WSM title they so despartley choose to cling to as a reason to not think past a rudimentary level is truly substantiated by pure strength, the title would belong to another after Newgate's death. There would be a new WSM the moment Newgate died yet, there is no such thing. The same applies to all titles. Also, if we must use "titles" Kaido's title of the strongest creature is above that of strongest man because humans are living creatures thus they fall below Kaido.
It's honestly sad and annoying when people refuse to keep their mind open or actually think because it requires modifying whatever view they currently hold.
@Master OF Haki You're in a futile thread of arguing to walls who refuse to listen to any manner of logic and evidence and choose to stand by their own perceived notions of power when much of the landscape is utterly mired in uncertainty, discontinuity, inconsistency and straight borderline bad writing.
I do not agree with your sentiments regarding Oden but you argue with enough logic and consistency that I would actually put Oden on the same level as Roger as WB the same goes to Kaido and the other Yonko who have nothing stating that they are magically weaker in an era of greater competition.
No matter what you say and how consistent your logic is, the answer will be a "no" "I feel", "This is a joke" "That's impossible" With very little backing such statements. There is nothing in the story that states that Roger and WB are the pinnacle of strength. Strength which cannot be attained by any others before or after them (excluding the MC). They will point to WSM "Title" as proof because Buggy in a panel before Oda has thought this far proclaimed that WB is the "strongest" and only Roger matched him. Yet, we know that this engagement of theirs was nothing but a play fight and that Roger had o victories against his Top Tier rivals and only became PK due to Oden and his luck.
Additionally, if the WSM title they so despartley choose to cling to as a reason to not think past a rudimentary level is truly substantiated by pure strength, the title would belong to another after Newgate's death. There would be a new WSM the moment Newgate died yet, there is no such thing. The same applies to all titles. Also, if we must use "titles" Kaido's title of the strongest creature is above that of strongest man because humans are living creatures thus they fall below Kaido.
It's honestly sad and annoying when people refuse to keep their mind open or actually think because it requires modifying whatever view they currently hold.
You forget he was blackmailed when he was fighting base Kaido with hostages
Luffy didn't look good vs Dragon Kaido. He did absolutely nothing to Dragon Kaido which should be Kaido's durable form. In the end, Oden just jumped up and significantly damaged Kaido with his cut.
Oda will not review Kaido's hybrid in a flashback so moot point. It was 11 v 1000 or 10000 and Kaido still got dominated in that match.
Oden got hit because of a cheap trick and that was the only way Oda could make Oden lose. If Kaido was above Oden, Oda wouldn't have drawn him needing major assistance to land the hit.
It isn't surprising that recent chapter, what Kaido remembers and fears is when Oden was about to land his second hit not the first one...further indicating that he was about to be defeated by the second hit.
Oda destroying your headcanons is always nice to see
All Kaido has over Whitebeard is his tremendous durability. And even then Oden cracked it, with WB and Roger having massively more attack power.
Physical strength? At least comparable. Kizaru addressed young Whitebeard's monstrous physical strength when talking about Weevil. And we saw an old sick Whitebeard on his death bed, with a hole molten into his chest, stopping a Moby dick with a single arm.
Endurance? Not even close. Oden inflicting a wound on Kaido's stomach made him crash down into the ground, being at Oden's mercy. Meanwhile Whitebeard walks around with a huge hole molten into his chest and half of his head gone, having dozens if not hundreds of bullets, swords, spears and cannon balls penetrated or damaged his body. Dying standing his feet
Haki? Not even close. His CoO is at the very top. Even at old age and when sick reacting to an ally in his sleep. His CoA is so strong it shocked Oden, with a clash with Roger resulting in the island and seas shaking to a point fodder at the other side of the island were seen flying through the air. Whereas the fodders standing right next to Kaido's and Big Mom's clash, remained on their feet.
And that is not even counting the fact Whitebeard has the strongest paramecia. Which almost makes an island sink just by Whitebeard raising his voice. With Roger having something to counter act that.
Now Jo_Ndule likes to address how base Kaido one shotted Oden. But that basically was a cheap shot with Oden turning around to pay attention to Fake-Momo, with Kaido hitting the back of Oden's head. Does anyone doubt that Whitebeard wouldn't have split Oden's skull if hitting his Bisento with all his physical force into the back of Oden's head? No Haki or Gura needed for that.
>Kaido has surpassed Primebeard
>Gets disarmed by a nerfed YC3.5
>MF WB didn’t get disarmed despite dying
>(also nobody talks about Kaido like they talk about even old WB)
Zoro’s gonna be surpassing Oden at the end of Wano, so unless you think Zoro is gonna be the strongest of all time after Wano...
Thats not how it works.
Oda has made an offical wsm and wss title.
He did not with kaido whose only title was king of beasts.
If you could read at all youd know.
Never did. The entire flashback portrayed Whitebeard / Roger a level above Oden / Kaido
Althroughout his adventures with the Whitebeard pirates, he was awed by Whitebeard's strength who was playing the role of a shield protecting his crewmate(Oden - stay back)
Only thing that was said about Oden when he came back to Wano was that he returned from his pirate journey many times stronger than when he left Wano
But he had a grand total of 5years as a pirate and the time they encountered the Roger pirates, it was already at the 4th year of his pirate journey(with Roger - Whitebeard's equal portrayed to be capable to kill him off anytime during his journey)
Yet he was portrayed totally outclassed in the Whitebeard / Roger duel(and pay in mind, it was in a pure weapon - hardening/coc clash with no overpowered devil fruit involved to potentially increase the gap)
There is a reason why he was portrayed as Whitebeard's "little brother"
Yet this Oden was portrayed capable to defeat Kaido with pure swordsmanship(Whitebeard / Roger's level hardening - COC clash still outclassed anything he ever did) despite fighting at a disadvantage(10 vs 1000) to the point that just thinking of his strength give PTSD to Kaido 20 years after his death
And when looking at how Oden was portrayed as Whitebeard's little brother, how Whitebeard / Roger were portrayed comparatively to Oden, how they are yonko are portrayed as "silver medalists" to Whitebeard / Roger, how fellow yonkos like Big Mom puts Whitebeard on a higher pedestal(evenWhitebeard), it all makes sense
They aren't Roger / Whitebeard level, let alone above
Never did. The entire flashback portrayed Whitebeard / Roger a level above Oden / Kaido
Althroughout his adventures with the Whitebeard pirates, he was awed by Whitebeard's strength who was playing the role of a shield protecting his crewmate(Oden - stay back)
Well, you clearly haven't read what I said in this thread and I don't blame you since the thread is quite long. Oden was portrayed weaker than Whitbeard because he was indeed weaker than Whitbeard at that time.
Yet he was portrayed totally outclassed in the Whitebeard / Roger duel(and pay in mind, it was in a pure weapon - hardening/coc clash with no overpowered devil fruit involved to potentially increase the gap)
There is a reason why he was portrayed as Whitebeard's "little brother"
Back when Oden and Whitbeard first met we can clearly see that Whitbeard's expression tells us that he was straggling little bit with Oden. Please don't take me wrong, I'm not saying that he was a problem for Whitbeard or anything like that, I'm just saying that at least in terms of physical strength he was already at top tier level (compared to Whitbeard) and that's quite impressive since Whitbeard was already the WSM at that time.
Whitebeard also was using two hands just like with Shanks "indicating that he takes Oden seriously" and just the scene is quite similar to a "Yonko Clash" with two minor differences; first, Oden used CoA when all the Yonkos and Whitbeard didn't. Second, Oda didn't show the skies so we can't tell what happened there. Oda also skipped the fight between Whitbeard and Oden just like he did it with Big Mom and Kaido even though it has been said that Oden tried to kill Whitbeard.
Now the haki stuff.
The only deference between Yonko clash and clash between Whitbeard and Roger is that Yonko didn't use CoA while Roger and Whitbeard did. Can we use that and say that the Yonkos don't have the most advanced haki on the same level as Whitbeard? No, a Big, Big no! Unfortunately we've never seen a Yonko using a lot of haki and that's made deliberately since Oda doesn't wanna revile top level haki before Luffy learns it. The only time we've seen a Yonko using advanced haki of any type was WCI arc when Big Mom used it against Luffy
And in Anime Big Mom used it to destroy the door of her treasury.
Kaido=>Prime Whitbeard=Roger
We've already seen Kaido's introduction and the hype so I'm not going post it here and instead let's find out whether what was said about Kaido is true.
In Ace's novel we found out this...
First thing is that the author of this novel says that it's not easy to define the word "Strongest" which means that all the "strength titles" are under Big Question.
Second, Skull who is a big pairet fan boy says that "Kaido is the strongest in 1v1 fights" and that's what I've been talking about all this time in this thread, that most of the Whitebeard's hype (not all) are about his military strength, Military might and not about his personal fighting strength while most of the Kaido and Oden's hype (not all) are about their individual strength and not their military strength and again not all, both Kaido and Oden have a lot of military strength hype.
Skull also adds that Kaido is indeed "the strongest creature in the world" and that you can't kill him even if you try.
Third, Skull confirms that Whitbeard wasn't the strongest pirate at that time and that's another example that the strength titles are not about fighting power but for specific thing like; WSS has the best skill, WSM has the highest physical strength and endurance, the world strongest creature has the strongest physical strength and endurance overall etc.
You could say that's because Whitbeard was sick and old I agree but that also means that Prime Whitbeard=Kaido.
And if you are suspicious about the ligitemacy of Ace's novel and whether it's canon or not then look at this
This means that ether Ace's novel is 100% canon or Oda straight up lying to us which is quite possible since Oda is the biggest lier in the world.
And Oda himself proves in SBS that Kaido's title is legit.
And Kaido being unkillable is not a new thing, Kaido was unkillable 20 years ago hence the gap between Kaido 20 years ago and now can't be big. I also think that Kaido has become stronger since then but not by much, not considerably the gap between him then and now is irrelevant. Oden takes Kaido quite seriously and says that if can't kill him no one can, so he basically puts himself above Whitbeard who was healthy at that time.
And Oden easily defeated Kaido who was already top tier at that time, meaning that Oden=Whitbeard.
Btw, it's never been stated that Whitbeard and Roger where the strongest of their generation it's just the fans who expect them to be, but as mater of fact Garp has been put on the same pedestal as Roger.
Shiki was also hyped to be on the same tier (I'm not saying he was as strong as them) as Roger and Whitbeard.
And it took both Sengoku and Garp to defeat him quickly
I'm not saying they couldn't defeat him in 1v1 I'm sure Garp could it's just that it took both of them to defeat him quickly.
Did Oden have haki on the same level as Whitbeard? Well, not necessarily since Enma easily replaced it.
@Master OF Haki You're in a futile thread of arguing to walls who refuse to listen to any manner of logic and evidence and choose to stand by their own perceived notions of power when much of the landscape is utterly mired in uncertainty, discontinuity, inconsistency and straight borderline bad writing.
I do not agree with your sentiments regarding Oden but you argue with enough logic and consistency that I would actually put Oden on the same level as Roger as WB the same goes to Kaido and the other Yonko who have nothing stating that they are magically weaker in an era of greater competition.
No matter what you say and how consistent your logic is, the answer will be a "no" "I feel", "This is a joke" "That's impossible" With very little backing such statements. There is nothing in the story that states that Roger and WB are the pinnacle of strength. Strength which cannot be attained by any others before or after them (excluding the MC). They will point to WSM "Title" as proof because Buggy in a panel before Oda has thought this far proclaimed that WB is the "strongest" and only Roger matched him. Yet, we know that this engagement of theirs was nothing but a play fight and that Roger had o victories against his Top Tier rivals and only became PK due to Oden and his luck.
Additionally, if the WSM title they so despartley choose to cling to as a reason to not think past a rudimentary level is truly substantiated by pure strength, the title would belong to another after Newgate's death. There would be a new WSM the moment Newgate died yet, there is no such thing. The same applies to all titles. Also, if we must use "titles" Kaido's title of the strongest creature is above that of strongest man because humans are living creatures thus they fall below Kaido.
It's honestly sad and annoying when people refuse to keep their mind open or actually think because it requires modifying whatever view they currently hold.
Ok guys, Use your brains.
Why would Oda have Roger beat these characters unconditionally when he's going to have Luffy beat them and unconditionally surpass them. It's saying well if Roger beat them then it's no big deal when Luffy does it.
Thats not how it works.
Oda has made an offical wsm and wss title.
He did not with kaido whose only title was king of beasts.
If you could read at all youd know.
Well, you clearly haven't read what I said in this thread and I don't blame you since the thread is quite long. Oden was portrayed weaker than Whitbeard because he was indeed weaker than Whitbeard at that time.
You forgot to mention that Oden was also called "invincible" though they are different versions of translition but the meaning is almost the same.
Now let's recap what happened, so...
Oden's portrayal:
Back when Oden and Whitbeard first met we can clearly see that Whitbeard's expression tells us that he was straggling little bit with Oden. Please don't take me wrong, I'm not saying that he was a problem for Whitbeard or anything like that, I'm just saying that at least in terms of physical strength he was already at top tier level (compared to Whitbeard) and that's quite impressive since Whitbeard was already the WSM at that time.
Whitebeard also was using two hands just like with Shanks "indicating that he takes Oden seriously" and just the scene is quite similar to a "Yonko Clash" with two minor differences; first, Oden used CoA when all the Yonkos and Whitbeard didn't. Second, Oda didn't show the skies so we can't tell what happened there. Oda also skipped the fight between Whitbeard and Oden just like he did it with Big Mom and Kaido even though it has been said that Oden tried to kill Whitbeard.
Now the haki stuff.
The only deference between Yonko clash and clash between Whitbeard and Roger is that Yonko didn't use CoA while Roger and Whitbeard did. Can we use that and say that the Yonkos don't have the most advanced haki on the same level as Whitbeard? No, a Big, Big no! Unfortunately we've never seen a Yonko using a lot of haki and that's made deliberately since Oda doesn't wanna revile top level haki before Luffy learns it. The only time we've seen a Yonko using advanced haki of any type was WCI arc when Big Mom used it against Luffy
And in Anime Big Mom used it to destroy the door of her treasury.
Kaido=>Prime Whitbeard=Roger
We've already seen Kaido's introduction and the hype so I'm not going post it here and instead let's find out whether what was said about Kaido is true.
In Ace's novel we found out this...
First thing is that the author of this novel says that it's not easy to define the word "Strongest" which means that all the "strength titles" are under Big Question.
Second, Skull who is a big pairet fan boy says that "Kaido is the strongest in 1v1 fights" and that's what I've been talking about all this time in this thread, that most of the Whitebeard's hype (not all) are about his military strength, Military might and not about his personal fighting strength while most of the Kaido and Oden's hype (not all) are about their individual strength and not their military strength and again not all, both Kaido and Oden have a lot of military strength hype.
Skull also adds that Kaido is indeed "the strongest creature in the world" and that you can't kill him even if you try.
Third, Skull confirms that Whitbeard wasn't the strongest pirate at that time and that's another example that the strength titles are not about fighting power but for specific thing like; WSS has the best skill, WSM has the highest physical strength and endurance, the world strongest creature has the strongest physical strength and endurance overall etc.
You could say that's because Whitbeard was sick and old I agree but that also means that Prime Whitbeard=Kaido.
And if you are suspicious about the ligitemacy of Ace's novel and whether it's canon or not then look at this
This means that ether Ace's novel is 100% canon or Oda straight up lying to us which is quite possible since Oda is the biggest lier in the world.
And Oda himself proves in SBS that Kaido's title is legit.
And Kaido being unkillable is not a new thing, Kaido was unkillable 20 years ago hence the gap between Kaido 20 years ago and now can't be big. I also think that Kaido has become stronger since then but not by much, not considerably the gap between him then and now is irrelevant. Oden takes Kaido quite seriously and says that if can't kill him no one can, so he basically puts himself above Whitbeard who was healthy at that time.
And Oden easily defeated Kaido who was already top tier at that time, meaning that Oden=Whitbeard.
Btw, it's never been stated that Whitbeard and Roger where the strongest of their generation it's just the fans who expect them to be, but as mater of fact Garp has been put on the same pedestal as Roger.
Shiki was also hyped to be on the same tier (I'm not saying he was as strong as them) as Roger and Whitbeard.
And it took both Sengoku and Garp to defeat him quickly
I'm not saying they couldn't defeat him in 1v1 I'm sure Garp could it's just that it took both of them to defeat him quickly.
Did Oden have haki on the same level as Whitbeard? Well, not necessarily since Enma easily replaced it.
Post automatically merged:
Well, logic is a crime in one piece so I can very well be wrong.
Post automatically merged:
There's no such thing as Yonko fan boys or Admirals fan boys, both of those groups pushing dipper agenda.
Your post is nonsense.
Literally the next chapter after the oden wb clash theres a panel of oden being in awe of wbs power and realising wb is far above him. This before the roger wb clash where again he was in awe.
And once tamed enma is just like any other sword there is no magic haki booster.
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