Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1034 Spoilers Discussion

Has Queen been defeated?

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duckman

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#5,544
#5,544
pg13 said:
The flawed Enies Lobby doriki is what started all of it. Before Enies lobby arc you cant make any argument for Zoro and Sanji being close. He looked closer to Luffy before Enies Lobby Arc happened. And then Thriller Bark onwards Zoro is closer to Luffy. Zoro powerups too frequently to be closer to Sanji tbh.

The special about Sanji has always been that unlike the other crewmates outside of Luffy, Sanji is the only person Zoro cant just Low Diff.
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People were asking Zoro vs Sanji in SBS of Volume 29 and you’re discussing Enies Lobby Doriki.
 
pg13

pg13

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#5,545
#5,545
Franosuke said:
IMO Luffy vs Lucci was extreme diff, Zoro vs Kaku was high diff but not extreme diff. I agree Sanji vs Jabura was mid diff. But the problem with doriki is that, if Luffy is exactly that much better than they are, logically he should not have had a significantly harder time with his opponent than they did with theirs, idk if I'm saying that right.

Regarding Whiskey Peak, I think it was clear in the panels that both Luffy and Zoro were serious DURING the fight, and they both seriously declared that they wanted to see which of them was stronger.

Other than that, I don't necessarily think there are moments where it's explicitly implied that Luffy = Zoro, but I do think Luffy and Zoro as a DUO appears with similar prevalence in the story as Zoro and Sanji as a duo. Zoro is the only SH to fight shoulder-to-shoulder with Luffy in battle, even being described as Luffy's "partner" by Smoker, etc etc. We can get into supernova stuff and dreams/ambitions and whatever but that stuff is more trivial. I don't want to add too much detail because I don't actually believe Luffy = Zoro, but my point is there are elements in the story that pushes Zoro as Luffy's "partner" more than anyone else in the crew, while he lacks that type of development with Sanji in my opinion

On top of that, we do have direct confirmation from Oda on multiple occasions that describe Zoro as the no. 2 of the crew, which is why I choose to just abide by the logic of Luffy > Zoro > Sanji without digging too deep into the gaps. Obviously Sanji is a beast and IMO neg diffs the other members of the crew besides Jinbe even though he still beats Jinbe by a landslide at this point
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Zoro vs Kaku was not a high diff fight...... It was a Mid Diff fight just like Sanji vs Jabra was. It just had more focus and Usopp also prolonged Zoro's fight with his nonsense.
 
BillSlipton

BillSlipton

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#5,546
#5,546
Yasheen said:
Doriki not taking weaponry into account is the most commonly said misnomer. When doriki was initially mentioned it used men with guns as the benchmark.

You can say since Kaku uses a style he’s utilizing his Doriki well but that can be said for Jabra as well who uses a special martial art along with doriki.
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Boichi is One of the best artists out there right now. Hard to compare him to Odas simplistic art style. They got inspired from different people. Oda was inspired by toriyamas style.
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Oda: here's here's direct powerscale that includes a weapon. Pretty straightforward.

Worst gen idiot: zoro has sword and so do Kaku. Must mean stronger
 
BleakAsh

BleakAsh

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#5,554
#5,554
pg13 said:
Which is a big deal because Kaku even stated he's at full strength with he utilize the 4 sword style. He wasn't just a tiny bit stronger than Jabra he was stronger than Jabra by a good amount.
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how did you even scale them? like how the hell were you able to "depict" that margin between them and completely ignore the manga.. and yea doriki does account for weapons.. the base measurement is gaging a soldier with a rifle which is 10 doriki thats basically an average soldier .. you don't need rocket science to assume one with a sword will be around that caliber as well.. that is safe to assume even if its not accurate coz oda isn't trying to PS the crap out of things there he's putting things into perspective.


pg13 said:
Because You Cant make any debate before enies lobby, What does Sanji accomplish feat wise that's comparable to Zoro before Enies lobby? Zoro Defeated the 100 Bounty Hunters and then Fought on Par with Luffy all in Baroque works Arc, Were just suppose to ignore that for a Dinosaur Hunting Contest? Zoro and Sanji don't even have battles against each other like Dorry and Broggy do lol. The Fight Zoro and Luffy had in Baroque works is more reminiscent of Dorry and Broggy in lil garden then a hunting contest.
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I'm talking about portrayal even if their interactions aren't combat centric.. you can't tell me inconsistent and situational feats puts zoro tiers above sanji before El that's trivial as hell.

Killing 100 fodders is a feat then sanji's feats in Alabasta against mr 2 while being handicapped, and then mr prince stuff where he busted dozens of men in front of Crocs casino and then after m2 fight he and zoro literally teaming up to fight The billions in the plaza..

What was insinuated with theme of dory and brogy was.. that if they were to fight it would be paralleling the rivalry of dory and brogy..
that was direct strength portrayal you are just being dismissive of the comparison

The fight of Luffy and Zoro is irrelevant to the comparison being made.. you are bringing redundant points to prove your option fam
 
Franosuke

Franosuke

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#5,556
#5,556
BillSlipton said:
All that stuff you said is just rhm narrative. Nothing more. It doesn't mean the rhm can't have an equal.

An explicit powerscale from the literal source material created by Loda himself. You cannot disagree with it.

Zoro was literally losing to kaku and was about to be defeated and then he pulled out ashura. Sanji mid diffed. These are the facts.

Either way the gap between luffy and zoro us huge. That was my main point. That's why I brought that up. How anyone can conclude luffy=zoro us beyond me. It's delusions and deserves to be laughed at
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Let me try to think of an analogy for what I was saying about the doriki powerscale.

It's like, if you had 2 professional tennis players. I'm not sure if you know much about tennis matches but in major tournaments it's a best of 5 sets. Let's say one of the tennis players can only barely beat top-20 ranked professionals, always having to take up the whole 5 sets to win. On the other hand, the other guy beats top-50 ranked players comparatively easier, only ever getting pushed to a 4th set. What that means is that just because one guy is competing against a #20 ranked opponent and the other guy is competing against a #50 ranked opponent doesn't make the first guy "30 ranks better" in skill than the second guy.

Of course, you can apply the same logic to Zoro/Sanji and not just Luffy/Zoro. To me, that just means the M3 are not too far apart in strength from each other.

With the RHM narrative, the general portrayal of RHM is that they are the no. 2 of the crew and the only person to be considered a "partner" to the captain. It is, at least in some ways, a general establishment as that person being only inferior to the captain in strength. I can also direct you to the Vivre Cards where Zoro was explicitly stated to be only inferior to Luffy in the whole crew. Doesn't mean Sanji is far behind him, but it means there is some gap.

Yes, the Luffy = Zoro argument is bad. But even now, with the development of Zoro presumably getting ACoC and Kaido's narrative surrounding it suggests that Zoro has entered a tier of strength that puts him alongside the very strongest. We'll see how it actually plays out, and I am in no way suggesting Zoro = Luffy.
 
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