Chapter Discussion One Piece Chapter 1194: EVERYTHING CHANGES

[Rootbeer]

The dialogue is horrible, but for Haki as a whole this chapter is amazing..

 

[JEK892]

He rarely kills Zoro/Sanji opponents. Don't ever remember that happening, even in Wano.

Technically Monet died.......but Tashigi was the one ithat nflicted the actual damage that would have killed her (because Zoro was inexplicably being a dipshit in that battle), and Oda even had Caesar finish her off by stabbing her heart (so he couldn't even let the good guys catch a singular body). Lol.

 

[Logiko]

I like this translation. It's interesting. Coc is not simply haki, it is the self that project outward. For this to happen, I interprete that one must understand who they are and who they want to be. I think it is to be also interpreted as the "essence of the understanding of oneself", the alignment between the will and the self, personnality wise. I don't know if I'm very clear.

It's interesting as I can link this to what I was saying about Usopp and Zoro earlier:

The obvious answer is Usopp with conqueror haki.

Usopp is to me, one of the few kings in the crew with Luffy, Sanji and Zoro. All his mind and body screams the desire to be better while proving to others that he is more than just a coward. This desire to rise above his own condition is the reason why Usopp could eventually get conqueror haki at the end of his journey, but I will go farther as Haki as been demonstrated to take some peculiar forms.

Usopp fights with his wits, his snipping skills and with fear (he makes his enemy afraid). I believe this last parameter could take a form in the way his conqueror haki and attack might work.

In One Piece, Haki is far more complex that something you "have" and something you "don't have". In reality, and this chapters shows it very well : Haki is a manifestation of one's will and presence. This means that conqueror Haki can be created if your will is strong enough.

The real question that you must ask yourself is : are will and presences things that characters in One Piece are born with ?

- Presence ? Yes. All things in One Piece have a presence, it is the result of life. But a presence is just a presence, it doesn't means it strong on get go.
- Will ? No. Noone is born with a strong "will" in One Piece (and in real life too).

Does this mean that some people are born with a stronger haki on birth ? From my interpretation, NO. But they are all potentially born with Haki indeed. This also means that all characters are born with the POTENTIAL to develop said Haki and make it stronger.

But not all people live a life that can unlock it.

For most characters, a strong will and presence (Haki) requires pure confidence. So.. Why do you think Aisa developped a strong observation haki ? The answer is in the details:

Aisa is a children of war. She lived all her life worrying about her people going to war and said war impacting her own safety. When a child live in a context where conflict (hardcore or just interpersonnal) is omnipresent, they develop a form of hyper perception of their environment that can allow them detect any rise of conflictuality and any form of animosity. Sometimes so triggering that it will make them even jump in the middle of the conflict to stop the fight. They might also be better at reading others and sensing their presence through subtle shift of pressure, noise or smell. They will also have an attraction for conflicts themselves. I should know. This is how I grew up.

Haki, in One Piece can be seen a basic form of materialist take on the results of the condition of growth of a person impacted by the idealist belief of the presence of a "will" that trenscends matter. So you'll get - as it is fashion in One Piece - a bit of both. Haki will start to develop outside of the will of the character (Aisa, Koby) BUT it will be impacted the presence of said "will" and "presence". (the Haki of Luffy for ex).

Now, I said that for most people haki (will+presence) required a strong confidence. But I believe that what this chapter proves and overall what Zoro's character arc in One Piece proves... is that presence and will can be impacted by obsination and perserverance too.

Zoro always question himself. Like Sanji, he is always pushing himself down, thinking that he is never enough (I explained why in details in other threads). But he also have spikes of strenght and growth, which is why is Haki is always oscilating. Sometimes strong, sometimes low. As you can see, he will develop King's Haki despite of that. Mostly because his will and presence are not based on his confidence, but his obstination to keep a promise. That's why Zoro could develop Haki so early.

His obstination is overpowering himself is what makes Zoro so strong but also what pushes him in a constant state of anxiety. Something that will probably only be resolved at the end of the story. (melontee made a great video about that)

So no, One Piece is not fascist, that would be a very poor level reading of then story. Characters are not born strong in One Piece (outside of the few random exceptions and evolutionnary anomalies like Big Mom or Oden). Characters are born with the potential for becoming strong and getting strong haki, presence and will in a world that can trigger all of them at any moments.

In reality, the story shows that Haki developps through pressure, even King's Haki. The story do not completely exclude the possibility for Haki to be favorized through genetic markers passed down generations (after all, Ace developped King's Haki a lot faster than other characters in OP). It's possible that while all characters are born with it, some are born with the capacity to developp it faster than others.

But it is only a potential. If said potential is never triggered, it won't work. There might be some evolutionnary anomalies here and there but the story makes a point (especially in this chapter) in telling us that conqueror Haki can grow with the presence. The more will, the more presence, and the more presence, the more haki.

Ace was already a highly willed boy when he developped Haki. He was already battling with himself and the laugh of others. He had to build condidence at a very early age. At one point, his own brother was about to get murdered. This created an immense pressure and his only solution at the time, was for his will and presence to stop the situation, he had no other alternative. So his Haki bloomed.

Like most things in One Piece, characters are more than just boxes of will, they are the result of their material conditions. Which is why Haki is so interesting. It mixes the idealist right wing idea of the will, with the real life materialists notion of environmental pressure to create something in between.

In One Piece, pressure creates strenght.

Haki is a direct results of the intense environment that is the new world and the strong will for people to survive in said environment. But it is also the result of the idea that those who have enough obstination and will to survive will keep growing, those who don't will not.

Now, you could question the ideology of will itself. "is will real?" and to that a materialist like me will tell you : "No, it is not". It more complex. So there is indeed a point of critic to have of One Piece about this idealistic notion. but this is something that can be said about pretty much all stories on the planet. One Piece is actually on the lower end as it is partly materialist too.

Meritocracy does not exist, we can't really become better because we wish to be, and we don't really have a will. We are the product of our environemental pressure which can be defined as our "material conditions of existence". This is pretty much it. You won't bend matter or make people pass out just with your spirit in this universe, maybe in another, but not ours.

Zoro simply has to acknowledge here that his presence can be worthy of the one of a king. So to push himself to this edge, he puts on the bandana, which tends to trigger his confidence.

In this case, Usopp is indeed on the path to become a conqueror as his entire journey relies on the overcoming of this very "sense of oneself" with what he wants to be. He has this potential to surpass everything he currently thinks he is and he struggled so much in trying to find a path despite his own shortcomings and strengh that the moment he will embrace his fear and project his courage outward (like he is starting to).. might be the moment where we will see him project a form of Coc.

Zoro is similar and Sanji will be too. For the three of them, confidence is not a given. They are full of anxieties. So their confidence as well as their their potentiality for CoC will oscillate.

If Zoro and Sanji manage to stabilize this confidence, see themselves for who they are, in their flaws and greatness, they will both get stronger. As for Usopp, this moment might appear at the end point of his character arc.

 

[Logiko]

And this also makes us understand why Luffy got such strong conqueror so early. Luffy is perfectly aligned with himself, he knows who he is, what he wants and what he does. He knows, understand and sense his own essence as a person almost to perfection and very rarily has internal contradictions. All of that to the point where he doesn't even have to internalize his thought, he simply project all of himself outward.

 

[Cozy Sofa]

The line about "I thought (CoC Haki) was something that only dwelled within those who could be Captain of a crew" is quite telling when you look at the series as a whole.

Katakuri - Actively stunted his own growth due to Big Moms insecurity regarding "measly son"

Marco - Gorosei thought he might have qualities to become a Yonko. Shanks wanted to recruit him. Big Mom respected him. But he only wanted to serve WB.

King - Another one that actively stunted his own growth. Partly because Kaido don't like too many conquerors around, partly because he wanted to make Kaido PK to pay off his debt to his benefactor.

Ace - Was being groomed by WB to replace him, everyone knew but himself who thought he was there to serve Cancer stage 4 WB.

Zoro - Risks his life and ambition over and over to achieve Luffys, only beat King due to for a moment wanting to achieve something himself. And even then it was due to preserving the promise to Kuina and Luffy.

--

Oden, and even Jinbei, were exceptions. They played #2 for different reasons but had no issues stepping up to lead. Teach actively kept himself on ground floor rather than become #2 because he wanted #1 all along.

With Rayleighs God Valley portrayal compared to his present day portrayal I wouldn't be surprised if he went through the exact same thing as Zoro, never imagining himself as a CoC King because he believed so much in Rogers leadership.

 

[ImuTop1]

I really hope the Hellfire flames dont actually function as fire.

Zoro and Sanji might as well be the same fighter at that point. Both using flames + black lightning ACoC, with the only difference being Zoro using magic swords and Sanji using genetic exoskeleton enhancements conduits

 

[Kiiro]

Dont know why, But I knew that Zoro at Gyojin island had something to do.

But its still hard to understand what it takes to use CoC as an attack.

Zoro when he used CoC at Wano, for me it seemed he acceptted to be a King...

Emma is a cursed sword and all cursed swords puts its wielder on test, it needed Zoro to accept to be a king.

Reason here, the knight god said he disnt have the traits lf a King... But Mihawk words, he just said CoC users just know they are kings or something like that.

You dont need to control your power, you need to believe in yourself?

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

@Elder Lee Hung
Let me show you what an actual W Looks like since I have to speed out basic shit for you at this point, I guess I don't completely blame you, Admiral's Resume legit is that Piss Poor.

An Opponent is fully focused on you
An Opponent lands his final move on you
You destroy that move
You obliterate him
Mutilate him
Knock his ass out

Here is one more example

Show me an Admiral ACTUALLY defeating a Non-Injured YC1 level or even YC2 Level opponent without distraction

You can't cuz the cucks have zero actual Ws
Weak as piss
Glorified Pokemon Commanders

I can’t show you Admirals being pushed hard because nobody is capable of pushing them hard. Lol

For example Gigabull’s finger tips are stronger than King of Hell:

http://imgur.com/ZRnaJ93

How can we expect commanders to push Admirals hard when they simply aren’t relative to Admirals? Extreme diff fights are for pirates, the Admirals mog every pirate in this manga mid diff at worst.

When Admirals actually get serious, the whole planet freezes and watches in awe:

When pirates fight extreme diff, it’s just a Tuesday. Two Yawnco were defeated and the people on the very island of Wano didn’t even know a Yawnco level battle was taking place less than a mile away from them, they had to actually be told that Kaido was defeated, because the strongest Pirate in the world being defeated was just that unimpressive.

Why didn’t Akainu hit Whitebeard with Daifunka instead of a puny magma fist?

http://imgur.com/AdVi831

A magma fist punched a tiny hole in his heart, Daifunka would have simply erased him. The answer is Oda constantly gives pirates plot armor when they face the Admirals, otherwise Whitebeard would have been killed in just one blow by hands in pocket Akainu. Either that, or they just get straight up negged

Btw, the Marines didn’t send an Admiral for Mihawk because they knew a bunch of Vice Admirals were enough to send him running into Crocodile’s arms. They watched him stalemate Vista at Marineford and determined that no Admirals were needed to uproot him from his home, which is factual. Mihawk packed up and ran as soon as some warships showed up lmfao.

The Zolo vs Lucci example is hilarious when Zolo factually did not knock Lucci out, and the only reason he even landed a hit on him at all was because of Sanji giving him a plot induced buff. Otherwise Lucci’s finger nails were stalling out Zolo’s smile Haki no problem.

I love how you cropped that panel of Zolo attacking Lucci, because immediately after Zolo attacked him, Lucci is still conscious and Jimbe had to punch him because Zolo couldn’t get the job done on his own.

Allow me to show you the full panel your lying ass cropped out:

“Show me a panel of an Admiral KOing someone!!” ^^^ can’t even show an example of Zolo cleanly knocking out someone Luffy low diffed. Lmfao the sheer shamelessness Shillshillo

There was once a time you would never make an argument without posting panels to back it up, now you’ve been reduced to lying and crying about how utterly terrible Zolo’s post TS portrayal has been. Imu took Hajrudin and Sanji both more seriously than he took Zolo, and Oda is once again reinforcing Zolo and Sanji as equals, Zolo will never be special, just some side quest commander tier character with absolute garbage portrayal outside of miniscule moments where Oda turns on his plot Haki since Zolo is to trash to solve any of his problems without Lolda holding his hand lmfao.

Meanwhile Oda won’t ever let the Admirals show their full strength because they would literally end the manga. What was that quote about how Oda couldn’t let Luffy be as strong as Akainu again?

 

[OykotsTreasure]

On the cover page, Blackbeard is learning calligraphy! Everyone needs to try a new hobby every once in a while! BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?! Hmmm...well, Blackbeard is learning a new skill from a "Monkey"....would it be too on the nose to say Blackbeard might have picked up a new skill from capturing Garp? Has Blackbeard "stolen" Garp's Galaxy Impact? I feel like there could be a clue in the kanji that Blackbeard's working on, too. But, I don't know enough (or any) Japanese to say what he's actually writing. Although, I will mention again, that calligraphy brush reminds me a lot of Imu's naginata, so that's another connection between Imu and artwork.

Sommers is really relieved that Zoro hasn't figured out Conqueror's Coating, yet. Just give it a few pages. The way Summers acts, it should come as second nature? Which is interesting, since no one else has figured it out. Is it something that gets taught to God's Knights early on?

But, Zoro is nothing if not persistant...and not above stabbing someone in the back, it seems. "Wounds on your back are a swordsman shame" is NOT his problem, when it comes to his opponent. As long as it's not HIS back, it don't matter. Not his back, not his shame.

It's kind of amusing watching Zoro try to figure this out so academically. Trying different hypotheses. Treating Sommers like a pincushion.

We see Sommers using Thorn Gram, which has black flames on it. Is THAT Conqueror's Coating, or not? It could just be because he's using his Family Weapon, or maybe all the God's Knights DO have Conquerors...I really can't tell, honestly.

Zoro assumed Conquerors was just something only Captains could have. So, he HAS been underestimating himself, a bit. And we also start to see little clouds forming around his swords. And Sommers mentioned heat before. Heat producing clouds....kind of like a volcano that produces Island Clouds? Or like a Dragon with fire breath that can also produce similar clouds. Hmm...

"Dragon's Fang!" A God's Knight using a attack with "Dragon" in the name. Interesting. It makes sense since they are "Celestial Dragons", after all, but it feels like there's going to be more to it than that, to me. (The Dragons are coming! Slow but sure.)

And Zoro hits the ship. It's not sunk yet, but it's not looking good for Sommers' plan to escape with the Giant Kids.

...This fight is pretty one-sided. Sommers isn't even really putting up much of a fight. Totally relying on his Regeneration. Kind of embarrassing for Sommers, really.

And we finally learn the key to gaining Conqueror's Haki. It's...one's sense of self! Whatever that means! I guess...if you BELIEVE you can be a king, you ARE a king? So...we're working under Popeye rules? "I 'yam what I 'yam, and that's all that I 'yam"?! But, hey, Haki Lightning AND Haki Clouds surrounding those swords DO look pretty cool!

So, I'm guessing next time we'll be switching over to Sanji to see how he's doing? Seems like Zoro has this pretty well settled at this point.

Though...I don't know if I see Zoro actually killing Sommers. He definitely WOULD. I just don't know if Oda (or Shonen Jump) would let a main character straight up kill a named character on screen. Maybe stabbing the Iron Heart doesn't kill the God's Knight, maybe it just "frees" them from Imu's contract, and renders them powerless? We'll see, I guess.

 

[SakazOuki]

Well congratulations to Oda, first chapter I read since Loki killed Harald
Agenda piece do be like that

 

[DemarIkh]

Perona and Mihawk mentioned

 

[GrandmasterChef Zonji]

Turns out Kamusari Air bar haki are Zoro's Pound cannon with AdvCoC
Hakiman and Shanksbros

 

[ShishioIsBack]

Turns out Kamusari Air bar haki are Zoro's Pound cannon with AdvCoC
Hakiman and Shanksbros

Yoooo

 

[PuckTheGreat]

Man Oda's writing is so chaotically inconsistent lol
Zoro's been written to be pretty cocky post-ts which I think brims from confidence in himself of course, which is fine but I think he's suffered a bit from Oda's decision to make all of the SHs charicatures of their pre-ts selves which makes each of them come of across as exterme to a degree. In Zoro's case his cockiness with the intention to make him more edgy and cuul somewhat came across as arrogance at times, which also comes across as very confident. So this pivot to humility this chapter feels a bit forced in all honesty. This is not to say Zoro's not humble by the way for example we saw him quite literally bow to his rival Mihawk to teach him in order to be able to help Luffy but I think the way Oda's written him post-ts doesn't really make this pivot feel organic.

Oda's writing is a bit frustrating tbh as he always wants to eat his cake and have it. I think this development for Zoro, which I think is great and something I think his character has somewhat lacked since the TS doesn't really hit as hard precisely bcoz of Oda trying to cheat with his writing. Zoro using CoC but then not being aware that he's able to coat it is yet another instance of this even though I can the loophole that Oda's taking advantage of. That said I do enjoy seeing characters I like grow so I'm not really mad at the direction per say.

Chapter in general was good ^^.
Mihawk giving us a bit more substance on CoC was also nice, I just hope that all of this buildup with regards to intentionality with CoC and being able to really see yourself for what you are and express it outwardly all leads to something tangible going forward.
Not really on the "Zoro is slow" or "Zoro has taken a step back" bandwagons coz I'm optimistic that all of this talk about "intentionality" is building up to something much bigger in the future. Plus, it's evident that Oda deliberately set up a loophole with Enma on Wano so can't really call this a retcon.


Lastly on Sommers, I mean...what can I say lol he's a bum that's only been able to come this far due to all of daddy Imu's gifts.
He lacks real ability which I think is deliberate in order to give Zoro the leeway to properly master his CoC. He's more of a prop for Zoro's asendency rather than a real opponent that Zoro had to surpass in the likes of King, Mr1 etc.

I'm a bit skeptical about Oda concluding this fight so quickly though, given the impact it's gonna have on Imu's fight given Imu's fight is not really calling for a nerf right now so maybe there is still a plot wist yet to come. Or Oda just has Zoro torture Sommers for as long as he likes in order to preopely get a grasp on how to use his CoC but the latter seems unlikely.

 

[Punk Rotten]

Chapter wasnt nearly as bad as what the spoiler thread was making it out to be. This forum loves to complain if things dont go their way.

I mean it was clear Sommers and Killingham are scrubs compared to Zoro and Sanji. They will lose here as target practice, and be replaced with much more formidable opponents on the Holy Knights side later.

 

[Malio]

A whole lotta deactivated account on twirrer. Does a Mini Mihawk flashback scare you that much?

 

[Blacklegwanderer]

I have no idea how Oda is going to have Sanji instantly unlock kings haki now and make it not seem like an asspull.
its going to be interesting.

 

[JEK892]

I really hope the Hellfire flames dont actually function as fire.

Zoro and Sanji might as well be the same fighter at that point. Both using flames + black lightning ACoC, with the only difference being Zoro using magic swords and Sanji using genetic exoskeleton enhancements conduits

I don't think thats the case. I'm pretty sure that was Sommers just wondering how he cut through the thorns so easily despite seemingly not being able to usr Conquerors at will, so he thought about their natural weakness. His immediate next thought was "Or did he only manage to use Conquerors for that brief moment?", which seems much more in line with how Zoro was shown during the chapter.

 

[M.O]

Since the time skip, Zoro has completely outclassed his opponents.
Hyouzou, Monet, Pika, Hawkins, Kamazo (Killer), Lucci and now Sommers
He dominated these fights from start to finish, took very few hits, and simply steamrolled his opponents without breaking a sweat.

The last time Zoro really struggled was against the baboons.

 

[Patryipe]

This is just useless stuff. Totally unnecessary after King's fight. Moreover the way Zoro gained control over it is laughable. "You just gotta believe you've got Big Dick Energy".