And I've "known" players were town before too without having their full role.
There's the fundamental issue of trust that I do not have for you that you aren't getting.
i do get it, but you keep circuling back
you "knowing" these others roles weren't lie detected, that's what i'm talking about
this one would've been lie detected, i'm not just asking for you to trust my word
and you really can't see the diferrence between lie detecting these two phrases:
1 - "I believe Flower is town"
2 - "I know Flower is town"
The first one would come out true even if Flower was scum or town, just because i believed it
The second one wouldn't come out true if i just believed it, i had to have her actual rolesheet, because even an invest or something like that, wouldn't be 100% garanteed