Anime & Manga One Piece Spoilers - The Wailing Room
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I don't think Dio gets enough love in these discussions. I know Dio's motives and backstory is not exactly Shakespeare , he was just a piece of shit out the gate. But he's just too perfect for this series, he has the perfect balance of menacing and bizarre.
And for that I have to say Dio is the goat JoJo villain. His aura in part 3 is unmatched, nobody has come close to that. Kira is my favourite though, I think he's the best villain for some of the reasons you lsited, but Dio is still greater you know?
Pucci is arguably better written than Kira though. I hear great things about the Part 7 villain but I don't want to get spoiled so let's ignore him lol.
And for that I have to say Dio is the goat JoJo villain. His aura in part 3 is unmatched, nobody has come close to that. Kira is my favourite though, I think he's the best villain for some of the reasons you lsited, but Dio is still greater you know?
Pucci is arguably better written than Kira though. I hear great things about the Part 7 villain but I don't want to get spoiled so let's ignore him lol.
Oh God, classic Ghostly essay here again! Normality has been resumed lmao. I'm gonna break this up into spoiler tags to condense it down.
Right?! The anime has such amazing music too, by one of my favourite singers too, hearing her doing the ending for it and somehow missing her BEST song this whole time made me cry so much, especially with how PERFECTLY it fits Part 6 and hearing what happened to hear IRL and why she was so absent for so long and inactive....
I fucking love Jolyne, Ermes, Foo Fighters, Anasui and Weather Report, absolute goats. Each part has characters I really like, but collectively, Parts 3, 5 and 6 have the characters I like the most by far. Even though Part 4 is my fave lol.
BIG FACTS! She is VERY underrated and tragic. A truly innocent, sweet girl turned into a badass warrior out of necessity and fighting
with every "fibre" of her being and being an AMAZING role model for both girls and guys alike.
Our own @Pot Goblin (Wtf I cant tag Pot?) was rocking that Jolyne pfp for a VERY long time for good reason too ofc! (Until the Conejo fever took over once and for all, RIP)
Damn straight! Oda could never! If he wrote Jolyne, she would have a thinner waist than when she did the mobius strip and she'd have boobs far bigger than
After reading and then watching Stone Ocean many years later, much older and apparently "wiser", this was me the whole time after it ended for a LONG time:
Oh absolutely man! Thematically, I think it goes well with Part 1 funnily enough, it was insane that the anime took that panel of Jolyne from the intro and made it return in the anime in its own way! (I will not spoil it/why BUT people who have followed the anime from Part 1 will be EXTREMELY happy and emotional with what they did for the Part 6 finale in the anime.)
Right?! It felt the true full circle of the story, especially once you factored in the fact that the
I can't remember the exact list but I am going to summon my fellow Jojotards for this amazing conversation right now anyway! @NikaInParis @Jaguark101 @Light D Lamperouge (Where the fuck did you go Light?!) @RayanOO @GrandmasterChef Zonji
I think they're all Jojo fans IIRC? I know most of them are, except 1 maybe but I think Zonji is one too? Apologies if you're not Zonji!
Yeah Redon would be shamelessly glazing if it were bad for Admirals or Kidd again, especially if its Shanks related or just- being another Luffy or Shanks glazing chapter generally.
Redon goes quieter when it involves Kidd or Admirals not being portrayed badly.
Jika/Boundless just likes to say that every week, for every chapter regardless, I admire their optimism/dedication, even though it feels fruitless to me at this point. Pun intended.
Right?! It genuinely is therapeutic/catharthic, especially when One Piece worshippers/glazers would send me death threats since the early 2000s for the MILDEST criticisms or even simply liking some of the 4Kids Dub voices and humour!
Before Drizzt, WorstGen and Piratefolk, I had nowhere to truly criticise and talk about how I really felt about One Piece, I felt ostracised, vilified, suffocated, oppressed unironically and yes its ironic too ofc, the ones who LOVE the series the most and are all about "love, empathy, freedom, forgiveness, diversity of feelings and opinions etc" are the ones trying to cancel and hate on others and calling them "toxic" for not being shameless constant glazers and actually having their own unique opinions and feelings whilst they parrot EVERY single content creator and major opinions on the series word for word and have actual GENUINE toxic positivty and behave EXACTLY like a cult!
They call us speed readers, fake fans, "reading comprehension impaired" and such, but they are the ones acting like the Celestial Dragons IRL and EXACTLY OPPOSITE to what Oda is trying make One Piece be about, what he wants to encourage and promote, to what One Piece symbolises!
But you know, freedom of thought and dissent is toxic to any cult/echochamber/bubble of toxic positivity ofc.
Exactly man, I totally undestand, I've followed this series religiously for over 20 years now and I keep regretting it more and more over time, it keeps just constantly breaking my heart and tearing me apart like the most abusive, long term relationship, a marriage even. I can't break free. How ironic right? So much for "FREEDOM PIECE"!
But you know, we're the "bad ones", we're the toxic ones, they are all self righteous, justified and as long as they keep dehumanising and belitting us, they can say and do what they want to us without a shred of remorse, self awareness, guilt etc just like the Celestials do to everyone else and thus every other race in the One Piece world....OOPS!
People sending me DMs on other places, telling me to get cancer, to kill myself etc just because I wasn't happy with the current state of One Piece and showed actual disappointment and emotion. But you know, they are "the good guys" and we're the bad guys. Then they wonder why we become bitter, toxic and such too, just like them. They are miserable and projecting onto us with their "We Happy Few" cult of "Joy" ironically and we're their designated villains to blame their problems on that they can't admit and feel they ironically oppressed into silence about.
Before Drizzt, WorstGen and Piratefolk, I had nowhere to truly criticise and talk about how I really felt about One Piece, I felt ostracised, vilified, suffocated, oppressed unironically and yes its ironic too ofc, the ones who LOVE the series the most and are all about "love, empathy, freedom, forgiveness, diversity of feelings and opinions etc" are the ones trying to cancel and hate on others and calling them "toxic" for not being shameless constant glazers and actually having their own unique opinions and feelings whilst they parrot EVERY single content creator and major opinions on the series word for word and have actual GENUINE toxic positivty and behave EXACTLY like a cult!
They call us speed readers, fake fans, "reading comprehension impaired" and such, but they are the ones acting like the Celestial Dragons IRL and EXACTLY OPPOSITE to what Oda is trying make One Piece be about, what he wants to encourage and promote, to what One Piece symbolises!
But you know, freedom of thought and dissent is toxic to any cult/echochamber/bubble of toxic positivity ofc.
Exactly man, I totally undestand, I've followed this series religiously for over 20 years now and I keep regretting it more and more over time, it keeps just constantly breaking my heart and tearing me apart like the most abusive, long term relationship, a marriage even. I can't break free. How ironic right? So much for "FREEDOM PIECE"!
But you know, we're the "bad ones", we're the toxic ones, they are all self righteous, justified and as long as they keep dehumanising and belitting us, they can say and do what they want to us without a shred of remorse, self awareness, guilt etc just like the Celestials do to everyone else and thus every other race in the One Piece world....OOPS!
People sending me DMs on other places, telling me to get cancer, to kill myself etc just because I wasn't happy with the current state of One Piece and showed actual disappointment and emotion. But you know, they are "the good guys" and we're the bad guys. Then they wonder why we become bitter, toxic and such too, just like them. They are miserable and projecting onto us with their "We Happy Few" cult of "Joy" ironically and we're their designated villains to blame their problems on that they can't admit and feel they ironically oppressed into silence about.
Right?! The anime has such amazing music too, by one of my favourite singers too, hearing her doing the ending for it and somehow missing her BEST song this whole time made me cry so much, especially with how PERFECTLY it fits Part 6 and hearing what happened to hear IRL and why she was so absent for so long and inactive....
She was kidnapped and raped for like 2 months by some wealthy psychopath, forced to be his sex slave apparently.
I fucking love Jolyne, Ermes, Foo Fighters, Anasui and Weather Report, absolute goats. Each part has characters I really like, but collectively, Parts 3, 5 and 6 have the characters I like the most by far. Even though Part 4 is my fave lol.
BIG FACTS! She is VERY underrated and tragic. A truly innocent, sweet girl turned into a badass warrior out of necessity and fighting
an impossible, losing battle
Our own @Pot Goblin (Wtf I cant tag Pot?) was rocking that Jolyne pfp for a VERY long time for good reason too ofc! (Until the Conejo fever took over once and for all, RIP)
Damn straight! Oda could never! If he wrote Jolyne, she would have a thinner waist than when she did the mobius strip and she'd have boobs far bigger than
her future.
After reading and then watching Stone Ocean many years later, much older and apparently "wiser", this was me the whole time after it ended for a LONG time:
Oh absolutely man! Thematically, I think it goes well with Part 1 funnily enough, it was insane that the anime took that panel of Jolyne from the intro and made it return in the anime in its own way! (I will not spoil it/why BUT people who have followed the anime from Part 1 will be EXTREMELY happy and emotional with what they did for the Part 6 finale in the anime.)
Right?! It felt the true full circle of the story, especially once you factored in the fact that the
Jojos although all dead, were no longer bound by generational long curses where countries like Japan, China and such believe in cursing entire future generations of families, even for eternity!
It was far more "grounded" ironically and it really broke the mold so to speak, it took the biggest risks and dared to do something no other author would do, the closest I can think of it is Oda with Sabaody. But that's just series I've seen and known but I've heard Shaman King ends in a very similar way to Part 6 of Jojo or something? I never saw the end of the anime due to Fox Kids being an ass with never showing it on TV here, just repeating the anime without the finale for some dumb reason, maybe due to what happens in the end, they just censored it like how they self righeously BUTCHERED One Piece's anime ofc? (Fucking diabolical bastards! Oi U-E, they done ruined the One Piece anime they have!)
Pucci being so level headed, so rational and just an "ordinary priest" really who was calculating, cunning, composed and stayed calm like 95% of the time was insane, he was like an evil capybara or something! As oxymoronic or ironically heretical as that sounds lmao.
Pucci's backstory is amazing, I cried when it was all revealed and his connection to a certain major other character and thus their shared tragedies and how its all extremely relatable to real life, it was the most humanly relatable story in the series. Especially for me on a personal level for example.
The ending and it being mostly female focused is why Stone Ocean gets most of its hate, but it has such, hot, beautiful, badass female characters, it was well written like other parts and wasn't full of "Mary Sue" nonsense and it has great fanservice for us horny bastards too! Whats not to love?
Plus since its set in Florida, its the PERFECTLY fitting place for the most BIZARRE series ofc!
There's a lot of deep symbolism with this part especially, it feels the most poetic, conceptual, philsophical etc, I found myself trying to deep dive, analyse it so many times over the years and I still do actually. There's so much to think about, so much to take in and understand, its not like the other parts, the other parts feel a lot more straight forward but this one given its direction and ending really left the strongest impression on nme than any other series has done, aside from Attack on Titan and Thriller Bark, to Sabaody and Marineford One Piece.
I'm using spoilers to avoid trying to spoil why the ending is so important here ofc.
I really love Jolynes design, her personality and her cast of allies. The way she uses her fruit (LMAO I MEAN STAND) is like she has a string logia and she would make Doflamingo PROUD ofc! STAND PROUD EVEN!
But seriously, she had such an underrated and "weak" stand but used it in the most creative and coolest ways! Which is even crazier given some of the shit she had to deal with like a FREAKING METEOR SHOWER AND FUCKING INVISIBLE ALLIGATORS!
Part 6 gave us such creative and interesting stand abilities like Marilyn Manson , Jailhouse Lock, Underworld, Weather Report, Diver Down and so on.
Pucci being so level headed, so rational and just an "ordinary priest" really who was calculating, cunning, composed and stayed calm like 95% of the time was insane, he was like an evil capybara or something! As oxymoronic or ironically heretical as that sounds lmao.
Pucci's backstory is amazing, I cried when it was all revealed and his connection to a certain major other character and thus their shared tragedies and how its all extremely relatable to real life, it was the most humanly relatable story in the series. Especially for me on a personal level for example.
The ending and it being mostly female focused is why Stone Ocean gets most of its hate, but it has such, hot, beautiful, badass female characters, it was well written like other parts and wasn't full of "Mary Sue" nonsense and it has great fanservice for us horny bastards too! Whats not to love?
Plus since its set in Florida, its the PERFECTLY fitting place for the most BIZARRE series ofc!
There's a lot of deep symbolism with this part especially, it feels the most poetic, conceptual, philsophical etc, I found myself trying to deep dive, analyse it so many times over the years and I still do actually. There's so much to think about, so much to take in and understand, its not like the other parts, the other parts feel a lot more straight forward but this one given its direction and ending really left the strongest impression on nme than any other series has done, aside from Attack on Titan and Thriller Bark, to Sabaody and Marineford One Piece.
I'm using spoilers to avoid trying to spoil why the ending is so important here ofc.
I really love Jolynes design, her personality and her cast of allies. The way she uses her fruit (LMAO I MEAN STAND) is like she has a string logia and she would make Doflamingo PROUD ofc! STAND PROUD EVEN!
But seriously, she had such an underrated and "weak" stand but used it in the most creative and coolest ways! Which is even crazier given some of the shit she had to deal with like a FREAKING METEOR SHOWER AND FUCKING INVISIBLE ALLIGATORS!
Part 6 gave us such creative and interesting stand abilities like Marilyn Manson , Jailhouse Lock, Underworld, Weather Report, Diver Down and so on.
Yeah DIO is the ultimate fuck you villain, the one who is iconic and irreplaceable to the series. When I was new to the internet in the earliest 2000s and on Newgrounds constantly, I saw a lot of DIO memes and Heritage For The Future stuff especially with Kakyoin and Jotaro with having NO IDEA what Jojo was until one of my closest friends got me into it finally with the Parts 1 and 2 anime which were FUCKING AMAZING ofc! Changed my life to get into Jojo! Genuinely!
Eh I love Kira but I can probably agree with if not just understand that at least. Part 7s villain is great yeah, this is a HUGE spoiler for it on who he is but I laughed SO FUCKING HARD, when reading your post as my Steam just gave me the notification for a game completing being downloaded and it was a certain game called
This game was made like 8 years ago which is even MORE INSANE RIGHT NOW OFC! LIFE IS FUCKING STRANGE/BIZARRE INDEED!
Eh I love Kira but I can probably agree with if not just understand that at least. Part 7s villain is great yeah, this is a HUGE spoiler for it on who he is but I laughed SO FUCKING HARD, when reading your post as my Steam just gave me the notification for a game completing being downloaded and it was a certain game called
MR PRESIDENT! A game where you gotta prevent the shooting/assasination of a certain FORMER BLONDE PRESIDENT!
I can't remember the exact list but I am going to summon my fellow Jojotards for this amazing conversation right now anyway! @NikaInParis @Jaguark101 @Light D Lamperouge (Where the fuck did you go Light?!) @RayanOO @GrandmasterChef Zonji
I think they're all Jojo fans IIRC? I know most of them are, except 1 maybe but I think Zonji is one too? Apologies if you're not Zonji!
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Yeah Redon would be shamelessly glazing if it were bad for Admirals or Kidd again, especially if its Shanks related or just- being another Luffy or Shanks glazing chapter generally.
Redon goes quieter when it involves Kidd or Admirals not being portrayed badly.
Jika/Boundless just likes to say that every week, for every chapter regardless, I admire their optimism/dedication, even though it feels fruitless to me at this point. Pun intended.
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Dio is greater in the sense that hes more iconic but Kira is the better villain, Pucci is cool but for me Kiras simple motives make him more relatable and also scarier because dudes like him exist. He doesnt want to rule the world or like reset the universe like Pucci or anything like that, he just wants to live in peace while indulging in his sick hobby.
I LOVE a comedic Jojo series spinoff, slice of life and comedy focused but NEVER in THAT art style, not ever ofc LMAO!
Naruto's Rock Lee comedy slice of life spinoff is some of the funniest shit ever! Kinda Pop Team Epic and Gin Tama in vibe/style? Made me lose my absolute shit! Fairy Tail and Bleach have made me absolutely lose my shit with their humour too, especially with their anime stuff too.
I got GPT to help me analyse the themes/symbolism and such of Stone Ocean and this just blew my mind too! Spoilers ofc:
JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure: Stone Ocean (Part 6) contains rich symbolism that enhances its themes, characters, and the narrative's core philosophy. Here are the major symbols and their significance in Stone Ocean:
1. Fate and Free Will
The concept of fate versus free will is central to Stone Ocean, particularly with the antagonists Enrico Pucci and his stand, Made in Heaven. Pucci’s obsession with creating a perfect world is built on the idea that fate is unchangeable, and that humans must accept their destiny to achieve happiness. His goal is to create a world where everyone knows their fate in advance, eliminating the chaos of unpredictability.
However, the protagonist, Jolyne Cujoh, embodies resistance against this deterministic worldview. Her stand, Stone Free, symbolizes her desire for freedom—not just physical, but also freedom from the constraints of fate. The recurring themes of breaking free, both literally and metaphorically, reflect her defiance against Pucci’s fatalistic philosophy.
The ultimate clash between Pucci's desire for control over fate and Jolyne's drive for personal freedom creates a strong philosophical conflict that culminates in the series’ finale.
2. Snakes and Rebirth
Snakes play a significant symbolic role in Stone Ocean, especially in relation to Enrico Pucci. During one of his transformations, Pucci gains the power of C-Moon, which grants him control over gravity. This phase of his transformation references the ouroboros, an ancient symbol of a snake eating its tail, which represents cyclical nature, destruction, and rebirth.
This imagery is reinforced by Pucci's use of Made in Heaven to reset the universe, metaphorically "destroying" the old world to create a new one. The snake imagery, therefore, ties into themes of cycles, reincarnation, and the eternal recurrence of events, echoing Pucci's desire for a "reborn" universe where fate is predetermined.
3. Stands as Reflections of Inner Character
Stands in JoJo's Bizarre Adventure often reflect the inner psyche of their users, and Stone Ocean is no exception. Jolyne's Stone Free represents her resilience and desire to break free from the forces that try to constrain her, like her wrongful imprisonment and Pucci’s manipulation of fate. The ability of her stand to unravel like strings represents Jolyne’s ability to deconstruct obstacles and rebuild herself stronger.
Pucci’s stand evolution—Whitesnake, C-Moon, and finally Made in Heaven—represents his spiritual ascension. Whitesnake’s ability to steal memories and stands parallels Pucci’s manipulation of both people’s minds and their destinies. C-Moon symbolizes his control over the forces of nature, and Made in Heaven, with its ability to accelerate time, represents his ultimate aspiration to control the very fabric of reality and destiny.
4. Dio’s Legacy and Heaven
Pucci’s motivation is deeply intertwined with his relationship with Dio, the overarching antagonist of the JoJo series. Dio’s concept of "Heaven" is a metaphorical symbol for achieving ultimate power and control, which Pucci seeks to realize. His desire to attain "Heaven" stems from Dio’s teachings, as Dio saw Heaven as a place where he could overcome fate and rule over all.
The idea of "Heaven" in Stone Ocean is not merely religious but philosophical, representing an ideal world where the powerful dictate the fate of others. It’s symbolic of Pucci’s delusion and Dio’s megalomania. This Heaven is not one of peace, but rather one of authoritarian control and domination, underlining the dark nature of their ambitions.
5. The Ocean and Water Symbolism
Water, particularly the ocean, appears throughout Stone Ocean as a symbol of change and the unknown. The ocean can represent vast possibilities and freedom, but it is also a place of danger, highlighting the duality of Jolyne’s journey. As the series unfolds, the ocean becomes a battleground for Jolyne’s confrontation with fate and Pucci.
Additionally, water often symbolizes purification and rebirth in literature. The various battles that take place near or involve water, especially towards the climax, reflect the characters’ struggles to wash away the past and emerge renewed or destroyed in the face of an unstoppable fate.
6. The Full Circle: JoJo’s Cyclical Nature
The ending of Stone Ocean is perhaps the most symbolic moment in the JoJo series. The universe is reset, but with notable differences, especially in the characters. This event symbolizes the cyclical nature of time and fate, a recurring theme in the series. The idea that even in a new world, echoes of the past remain, suggests that while circumstances may change, some aspects of destiny are unavoidable.
However, in this new universe, characters like Emporio find a way to break free of the tragic cycle. Emporio, in particular, symbolizes hope and the idea that even in a universe that seems deterministic, there is still a possibility of defying fate and creating a new path forward.
Conclusion
Stone Ocean is a narrative rich in symbolism, with themes of fate, freedom, cycles, and rebirth permeating the story. The stands reflect inner desires and struggles, while Pucci and Jolyne’s conflict embodies the clash between control and liberation. The ocean, snakes, and Heaven all serve to deepen the philosophical stakes of the story, making Stone Ocean a deeply layered and symbolically profound entry in the JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure series.
The concept of fate versus free will is central to Stone Ocean, particularly with the antagonists Enrico Pucci and his stand, Made in Heaven. Pucci’s obsession with creating a perfect world is built on the idea that fate is unchangeable, and that humans must accept their destiny to achieve happiness. His goal is to create a world where everyone knows their fate in advance, eliminating the chaos of unpredictability.
However, the protagonist, Jolyne Cujoh, embodies resistance against this deterministic worldview. Her stand, Stone Free, symbolizes her desire for freedom—not just physical, but also freedom from the constraints of fate. The recurring themes of breaking free, both literally and metaphorically, reflect her defiance against Pucci’s fatalistic philosophy.
The ultimate clash between Pucci's desire for control over fate and Jolyne's drive for personal freedom creates a strong philosophical conflict that culminates in the series’ finale.
2. Snakes and Rebirth
Snakes play a significant symbolic role in Stone Ocean, especially in relation to Enrico Pucci. During one of his transformations, Pucci gains the power of C-Moon, which grants him control over gravity. This phase of his transformation references the ouroboros, an ancient symbol of a snake eating its tail, which represents cyclical nature, destruction, and rebirth.
This imagery is reinforced by Pucci's use of Made in Heaven to reset the universe, metaphorically "destroying" the old world to create a new one. The snake imagery, therefore, ties into themes of cycles, reincarnation, and the eternal recurrence of events, echoing Pucci's desire for a "reborn" universe where fate is predetermined.
3. Stands as Reflections of Inner Character
Stands in JoJo's Bizarre Adventure often reflect the inner psyche of their users, and Stone Ocean is no exception. Jolyne's Stone Free represents her resilience and desire to break free from the forces that try to constrain her, like her wrongful imprisonment and Pucci’s manipulation of fate. The ability of her stand to unravel like strings represents Jolyne’s ability to deconstruct obstacles and rebuild herself stronger.
Pucci’s stand evolution—Whitesnake, C-Moon, and finally Made in Heaven—represents his spiritual ascension. Whitesnake’s ability to steal memories and stands parallels Pucci’s manipulation of both people’s minds and their destinies. C-Moon symbolizes his control over the forces of nature, and Made in Heaven, with its ability to accelerate time, represents his ultimate aspiration to control the very fabric of reality and destiny.
4. Dio’s Legacy and Heaven
Pucci’s motivation is deeply intertwined with his relationship with Dio, the overarching antagonist of the JoJo series. Dio’s concept of "Heaven" is a metaphorical symbol for achieving ultimate power and control, which Pucci seeks to realize. His desire to attain "Heaven" stems from Dio’s teachings, as Dio saw Heaven as a place where he could overcome fate and rule over all.
The idea of "Heaven" in Stone Ocean is not merely religious but philosophical, representing an ideal world where the powerful dictate the fate of others. It’s symbolic of Pucci’s delusion and Dio’s megalomania. This Heaven is not one of peace, but rather one of authoritarian control and domination, underlining the dark nature of their ambitions.
5. The Ocean and Water Symbolism
Water, particularly the ocean, appears throughout Stone Ocean as a symbol of change and the unknown. The ocean can represent vast possibilities and freedom, but it is also a place of danger, highlighting the duality of Jolyne’s journey. As the series unfolds, the ocean becomes a battleground for Jolyne’s confrontation with fate and Pucci.
Additionally, water often symbolizes purification and rebirth in literature. The various battles that take place near or involve water, especially towards the climax, reflect the characters’ struggles to wash away the past and emerge renewed or destroyed in the face of an unstoppable fate.
6. The Full Circle: JoJo’s Cyclical Nature
The ending of Stone Ocean is perhaps the most symbolic moment in the JoJo series. The universe is reset, but with notable differences, especially in the characters. This event symbolizes the cyclical nature of time and fate, a recurring theme in the series. The idea that even in a new world, echoes of the past remain, suggests that while circumstances may change, some aspects of destiny are unavoidable.
However, in this new universe, characters like Emporio find a way to break free of the tragic cycle. Emporio, in particular, symbolizes hope and the idea that even in a universe that seems deterministic, there is still a possibility of defying fate and creating a new path forward.
Conclusion
Stone Ocean is a narrative rich in symbolism, with themes of fate, freedom, cycles, and rebirth permeating the story. The stands reflect inner desires and struggles, while Pucci and Jolyne’s conflict embodies the clash between control and liberation. The ocean, snakes, and Heaven all serve to deepen the philosophical stakes of the story, making Stone Ocean a deeply layered and symbolically profound entry in the JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure series.
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I always got that vibe from him, Dio was "very gay" especially from Part 3 onwards and everyone thought he and Pucci were "boning"/very gay for each other and Jojo is known for being a VERY gay series with a lot of "Baras" and "Twinks" too ofc.
Being bisexual/bromantic myself, (LMAO I MEAN BIROMANTIC BUT THAT WORKS JUST LIKE KING CRIMSON), it does give me that vibe massively too and helped me with my own "awakenings" too.
Its even funnier as Pucci really wanted "Dio's bone" too.
Part 6 was the "Lesbian part" too and Anasui was originally a girl before Araki immediately retconned it because it was already difficult for him to convince Shuiesha to let him have a female MC and female focused direction for Part 6 apparently but to add Anasui as a woman being in love with Jolyne and wanting to marry her? RIP Lmao.
One of my closest friends is a lesbian and I'm sure she'd back up some of the stuff I'm saying too. She's kinda like an IRL Jolyne for me too, heh, maybe more so Ermes too.
Not to mention how blatantly gay the Pillar Men were but Kira was more like the Metrosexual gay stereotype, very Patrick Bateman especially even though neither Kira and Patrick are known to be gay (a lot of evidence against it ofc) BUT Patrick at least was completely narcissistic to the extreme including his 30 minute at least facial skincare routine and admiring himself in the mirror as he was uuuhhhh, well banging a woman lol.
Not to mention Wamuu seemed very close to Joseph, in a sort of "deep admiration" way despite being enemies and fighting to the literal death. Joseph was VERY close with his twink BFF and tsundere friend Caesar and cried over what happened to him, wearing his bandana as a a memento of him
GPT can explain this beter than me as usual:
Regarding the similarities of Yoshikage Kira and Patrick Bateman too:
Being bisexual/bromantic myself, (LMAO I MEAN BIROMANTIC BUT THAT WORKS JUST LIKE KING CRIMSON), it does give me that vibe massively too and helped me with my own "awakenings" too.
Its even funnier as Pucci really wanted "Dio's bone" too.
Part 6 was the "Lesbian part" too and Anasui was originally a girl before Araki immediately retconned it because it was already difficult for him to convince Shuiesha to let him have a female MC and female focused direction for Part 6 apparently but to add Anasui as a woman being in love with Jolyne and wanting to marry her? RIP Lmao.
One of my closest friends is a lesbian and I'm sure she'd back up some of the stuff I'm saying too. She's kinda like an IRL Jolyne for me too, heh, maybe more so Ermes too.
Not to mention how blatantly gay the Pillar Men were but Kira was more like the Metrosexual gay stereotype, very Patrick Bateman especially even though neither Kira and Patrick are known to be gay (a lot of evidence against it ofc) BUT Patrick at least was completely narcissistic to the extreme including his 30 minute at least facial skincare routine and admiring himself in the mirror as he was uuuhhhh, well banging a woman lol.
Not to mention Wamuu seemed very close to Joseph, in a sort of "deep admiration" way despite being enemies and fighting to the literal death. Joseph was VERY close with his twink BFF and tsundere friend Caesar and cried over what happened to him, wearing his bandana as a a memento of him
GPT can explain this beter than me as usual:
Both JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (JJBA) and American Psycho explore homoerotic undertones, though in different contexts and with unique approaches. These themes can be interpreted from a variety of angles, and discussing them requires sensitivity to the nuances of storytelling, character relationships, and underlying social commentary.
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (JJBA)
In JJBA, particularly from the third part (Stardust Crusaders) onwards, there is notable subtext of male bonding and intimacy that can be interpreted as homoerotic. The series, written by Hirohiko Araki, frequently portrays strong emotional and physical connections between male characters. These bonds are often explored through close physical proximity, stylized poses, and dramatic displays of affection and loyalty.
1. Masculinity and Ambiguity
The characters in JJBA are hyper-masculine in their physicality yet subvert traditional expectations of masculinity with their exaggerated fashion and flamboyant poses. This combination of muscular figures and stylized, at times effeminate aesthetics opens the door for homoerotic interpretations. For example, the relationship between Jotaro and Kakyoin in Stardust Crusaders and the dynamics between Dio and his subordinates often hint at deeper bonds that go beyond traditional camaraderie.
2. Intense Male Friendships
In Golden Wind, the intense relationships between characters like Giorno and Bucciarati are marked by extreme loyalty and emotional vulnerability. These close bonds can be viewed as an exploration of deep friendship, but the way Araki frames these relationships—with lingering, intimate gazes and gestures—can be interpreted as homoerotic by viewers.
3. Japanese Cultural Context
It’s essential to consider the context of Japanese media. Manga and anime often blur the lines between platonic male relationships and something more intimate. This is reflected in JoJo’s by how these relationships defy simple categorization. While Araki has never explicitly stated that any of his characters are queer, the openness to interpretation is significant, and many fans have found homoerotic subtext throughout the series.
American Psycho
American Psycho by Bret Easton Ellis, and its film adaptation, also contains potential homoerotic themes, but they are approached from a much darker, satirical angle. The protagonist, Patrick Bateman, a narcissistic and deeply disturbed Wall Street banker, exhibits a twisted view of masculinity, which intersects with both violence and sexuality.
1. Repressed Desires
Bateman's relationships with women are devoid of emotional connection, focused purely on domination and control. However, his interactions with other men, particularly in the book, hint at repressed desires. His obsession with the appearance and success of other men—such as his intense envy of Paul Allen’s business card or his admiration for another character’s physique—can be read as masked homoerotic desire, filtered through Bateman’s violent, consumerist worldview.
2. Hypermasculinity and Identity
Bateman’s hypermasculinity and need for domination extend into his sexual encounters, which blur the lines between heterosexuality and homoeroticism. In some scenes, particularly when he's in a state of detachment, his fascination with male bodies and superiority takes on an erotic dimension. The culture of Wall Street as depicted in American Psycho emphasizes competition and dominance, where Bateman’s homoerotic impulses are intertwined with his violent outbursts.
3. Satire of Capitalism and Narcissism
Ellis uses homoeroticism in American Psycho to further satirize the emptiness of 1980s consumer culture. Bateman’s relationships, whether sexual or platonic, are ultimately devoid of authentic emotion. His apparent homoerotic attraction to other men could be interpreted not as genuine but as a reflection of his narcissism—he is drawn to men who represent the idealized version of himself that he wishes to embody.
Common Themes
Both JJBA and American Psycho explore homoeroticism, but from different perspectives:
Masculinity and Homoeroticism: Both works challenge traditional notions of masculinity, but while JoJo often celebrates male bonding and intimacy, American Psycho critiques the toxic extremes of masculinity.
Aesthetic vs. Satire: Araki’s JoJo is filled with flamboyant, aesthetically charged scenes that invite interpretations of homoeroticism as part of the artistic expression. In contrast, American Psycho uses homoerotic themes to highlight the hollowness of Bateman’s identity and his warped view of human relationships.
Power and Desire: Both works tie homoerotic subtext to power dynamics. In JoJo, these dynamics are often tied to mutual respect and friendship, while in American Psycho, they are distorted into tools for dominance and control.
Conclusion
In both JJBA and American Psycho, homoerotic themes are present but take on different forms. In JoJo's, they emerge through stylized expressions of male camaraderie, intimate relationships, and Araki’s subversion of masculine ideals. In American Psycho, they are embedded within a satirical critique of masculinity, consumerism, and identity, where homoerotic desire is tangled with violence and narcissism.
Both works, in their unique ways, challenge the audience to rethink traditional boundaries of male relationships and the ways in which masculinity can be expressed.
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (JJBA)
In JJBA, particularly from the third part (Stardust Crusaders) onwards, there is notable subtext of male bonding and intimacy that can be interpreted as homoerotic. The series, written by Hirohiko Araki, frequently portrays strong emotional and physical connections between male characters. These bonds are often explored through close physical proximity, stylized poses, and dramatic displays of affection and loyalty.
1. Masculinity and Ambiguity
The characters in JJBA are hyper-masculine in their physicality yet subvert traditional expectations of masculinity with their exaggerated fashion and flamboyant poses. This combination of muscular figures and stylized, at times effeminate aesthetics opens the door for homoerotic interpretations. For example, the relationship between Jotaro and Kakyoin in Stardust Crusaders and the dynamics between Dio and his subordinates often hint at deeper bonds that go beyond traditional camaraderie.
2. Intense Male Friendships
In Golden Wind, the intense relationships between characters like Giorno and Bucciarati are marked by extreme loyalty and emotional vulnerability. These close bonds can be viewed as an exploration of deep friendship, but the way Araki frames these relationships—with lingering, intimate gazes and gestures—can be interpreted as homoerotic by viewers.
3. Japanese Cultural Context
It’s essential to consider the context of Japanese media. Manga and anime often blur the lines between platonic male relationships and something more intimate. This is reflected in JoJo’s by how these relationships defy simple categorization. While Araki has never explicitly stated that any of his characters are queer, the openness to interpretation is significant, and many fans have found homoerotic subtext throughout the series.
American Psycho
American Psycho by Bret Easton Ellis, and its film adaptation, also contains potential homoerotic themes, but they are approached from a much darker, satirical angle. The protagonist, Patrick Bateman, a narcissistic and deeply disturbed Wall Street banker, exhibits a twisted view of masculinity, which intersects with both violence and sexuality.
1. Repressed Desires
Bateman's relationships with women are devoid of emotional connection, focused purely on domination and control. However, his interactions with other men, particularly in the book, hint at repressed desires. His obsession with the appearance and success of other men—such as his intense envy of Paul Allen’s business card or his admiration for another character’s physique—can be read as masked homoerotic desire, filtered through Bateman’s violent, consumerist worldview.
2. Hypermasculinity and Identity
Bateman’s hypermasculinity and need for domination extend into his sexual encounters, which blur the lines between heterosexuality and homoeroticism. In some scenes, particularly when he's in a state of detachment, his fascination with male bodies and superiority takes on an erotic dimension. The culture of Wall Street as depicted in American Psycho emphasizes competition and dominance, where Bateman’s homoerotic impulses are intertwined with his violent outbursts.
3. Satire of Capitalism and Narcissism
Ellis uses homoeroticism in American Psycho to further satirize the emptiness of 1980s consumer culture. Bateman’s relationships, whether sexual or platonic, are ultimately devoid of authentic emotion. His apparent homoerotic attraction to other men could be interpreted not as genuine but as a reflection of his narcissism—he is drawn to men who represent the idealized version of himself that he wishes to embody.
Common Themes
Both JJBA and American Psycho explore homoeroticism, but from different perspectives:
Masculinity and Homoeroticism: Both works challenge traditional notions of masculinity, but while JoJo often celebrates male bonding and intimacy, American Psycho critiques the toxic extremes of masculinity.
Aesthetic vs. Satire: Araki’s JoJo is filled with flamboyant, aesthetically charged scenes that invite interpretations of homoeroticism as part of the artistic expression. In contrast, American Psycho uses homoerotic themes to highlight the hollowness of Bateman’s identity and his warped view of human relationships.
Power and Desire: Both works tie homoerotic subtext to power dynamics. In JoJo, these dynamics are often tied to mutual respect and friendship, while in American Psycho, they are distorted into tools for dominance and control.
Conclusion
In both JJBA and American Psycho, homoerotic themes are present but take on different forms. In JoJo's, they emerge through stylized expressions of male camaraderie, intimate relationships, and Araki’s subversion of masculine ideals. In American Psycho, they are embedded within a satirical critique of masculinity, consumerism, and identity, where homoerotic desire is tangled with violence and narcissism.
Both works, in their unique ways, challenge the audience to rethink traditional boundaries of male relationships and the ways in which masculinity can be expressed.
Regarding the similarities of Yoshikage Kira and Patrick Bateman too:
Yoshikage Kira from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Diamond is Unbreakable and Patrick Bateman from American Psycho share several significant similarities that make them compelling counterparts, despite existing in very different contexts. Both characters are deeply disturbed individuals who lead double lives, presenting a façade of normalcy while hiding their violent, obsessive tendencies.
1. Superficial Normalcy
Both Kira and Bateman are obsessed with maintaining the appearance of normal, respectable men in society. Kira, a quiet office worker, is determined to avoid attention and simply "live a quiet life" despite his murderous compulsions. Bateman, a wealthy Wall Street banker, similarly performs the role of a successful and charming man, fitting in with his elite social circle while masking his psychopathic urges. This desire for normalcy and anonymity in their social worlds contrasts with their dark, hidden realities, where they indulge in violence and deviance.
2. Obsession with Perfection and Control
Both characters exhibit an obsessive desire for control and perfection. Kira’s obsession with hands is symbolic of his need for control, as he believes possessing the perfect severed hand grants him comfort and satisfaction. His attention to cleanliness and precision in his crimes mirrors his psychological need to keep his life orderly and undisturbed by external factors.
Bateman, on the other hand, is obsessed with physical appearances, status symbols, and material perfection, whether it’s his fitness routine, designer clothing, or luxurious lifestyle. His fixation on perfection extends to his violent acts, which are portrayed as meticulous, almost ritualistic, displays of power and control. Like Kira, Bateman seeks to dominate others through these acts of violence, which represent a twisted form of control over life and death.
3. Hidden Psychopathy and Dual Identity
Both Kira and Bateman lead double lives, compartmentalizing their psychopathy from their public personas. Kira is outwardly an unassuming, quiet man who goes to great lengths to blend into society, but he harbors a hidden side as a serial killer with a fetish for women’s hands. His ability to go unnoticed by both his colleagues and neighbors in Morioh allows him to continue his killing spree for years undisturbed.
Similarly, Bateman’s psychopathic tendencies are masked by his role as a high-functioning businessman. His colleagues and friends remain oblivious to his horrific murders, largely because of the superficial and narcissistic nature of their relationships. Bateman’s dual identity, much like Kira’s, revolves around the disconnect between how others perceive him and the violence he enacts in secret.
4. Violence as a Means of Self-Satisfaction
For both characters, violence is not just a means to an end but a source of personal gratification. Kira derives a perverse pleasure from collecting and admiring his victims' severed hands, which symbolizes his twisted form of intimacy and dominance. His murders are methodical, reflecting his compulsive need for order and satisfaction in a deeply unsettling way.
Bateman’s killings are often spontaneous, fueled by rage or a desire to release his pent-up frustrations. However, like Kira, Bateman also finds a disturbing sense of pleasure in his violent acts, whether through elaborate, sadistic murders or his power over his victims. Both characters treat violence as a form of expression, revealing their deeply distorted psyches.
5. Isolation and Detachment from Reality
Kira and Bateman both experience a profound sense of isolation, despite being surrounded by people. Kira’s detachment is emotional—he lacks meaningful connections with others and prefers to live in his own world, undisturbed by outside forces. This isolation drives him further into his obsessive and violent tendencies, as he sees his victims and their severed hands as the only form of intimacy he can truly control.
Bateman, too, is deeply isolated, but his detachment is intellectual and existential. He struggles with the meaninglessness of his existence in a shallow, consumerist society. His detachment from reality becomes more pronounced as the novel progresses, and by the end, it is unclear whether his murders are real or a figment of his deteriorating mental state. Both characters’ isolation fuels their respective descents into madness and moral decay.
6. Lack of Remorse and Empathy
Both Kira and Bateman are characterized by a profound lack of empathy. Kira shows no remorse for his victims, treating them as mere objects in his pursuit of satisfaction. His desire for a quiet life supersedes any guilt he might feel for the lives he destroys. Similarly, Bateman is entirely disconnected from the humanity of his victims. He views people as disposable, reflecting the dehumanizing effects of his materialistic world. This lack of empathy highlights their psychopathic tendencies, allowing them to commit heinous acts without emotional consequences.
Conclusion
Yoshikage Kira and Patrick Bateman are both embodiments of the "civilized" sociopath, individuals who, on the surface, appear normal but harbor deeply violent, obsessive tendencies. Their dual lives, their obsession with control and perfection, and their emotional detachment make them disturbing yet fascinating characters. Both illustrate how dangerous and destructive a person can be when their inner darkness is hidden beneath a carefully constructed façade of normalcy.
1. Superficial Normalcy
Both Kira and Bateman are obsessed with maintaining the appearance of normal, respectable men in society. Kira, a quiet office worker, is determined to avoid attention and simply "live a quiet life" despite his murderous compulsions. Bateman, a wealthy Wall Street banker, similarly performs the role of a successful and charming man, fitting in with his elite social circle while masking his psychopathic urges. This desire for normalcy and anonymity in their social worlds contrasts with their dark, hidden realities, where they indulge in violence and deviance.
2. Obsession with Perfection and Control
Both characters exhibit an obsessive desire for control and perfection. Kira’s obsession with hands is symbolic of his need for control, as he believes possessing the perfect severed hand grants him comfort and satisfaction. His attention to cleanliness and precision in his crimes mirrors his psychological need to keep his life orderly and undisturbed by external factors.
Bateman, on the other hand, is obsessed with physical appearances, status symbols, and material perfection, whether it’s his fitness routine, designer clothing, or luxurious lifestyle. His fixation on perfection extends to his violent acts, which are portrayed as meticulous, almost ritualistic, displays of power and control. Like Kira, Bateman seeks to dominate others through these acts of violence, which represent a twisted form of control over life and death.
3. Hidden Psychopathy and Dual Identity
Both Kira and Bateman lead double lives, compartmentalizing their psychopathy from their public personas. Kira is outwardly an unassuming, quiet man who goes to great lengths to blend into society, but he harbors a hidden side as a serial killer with a fetish for women’s hands. His ability to go unnoticed by both his colleagues and neighbors in Morioh allows him to continue his killing spree for years undisturbed.
Similarly, Bateman’s psychopathic tendencies are masked by his role as a high-functioning businessman. His colleagues and friends remain oblivious to his horrific murders, largely because of the superficial and narcissistic nature of their relationships. Bateman’s dual identity, much like Kira’s, revolves around the disconnect between how others perceive him and the violence he enacts in secret.
4. Violence as a Means of Self-Satisfaction
For both characters, violence is not just a means to an end but a source of personal gratification. Kira derives a perverse pleasure from collecting and admiring his victims' severed hands, which symbolizes his twisted form of intimacy and dominance. His murders are methodical, reflecting his compulsive need for order and satisfaction in a deeply unsettling way.
Bateman’s killings are often spontaneous, fueled by rage or a desire to release his pent-up frustrations. However, like Kira, Bateman also finds a disturbing sense of pleasure in his violent acts, whether through elaborate, sadistic murders or his power over his victims. Both characters treat violence as a form of expression, revealing their deeply distorted psyches.
5. Isolation and Detachment from Reality
Kira and Bateman both experience a profound sense of isolation, despite being surrounded by people. Kira’s detachment is emotional—he lacks meaningful connections with others and prefers to live in his own world, undisturbed by outside forces. This isolation drives him further into his obsessive and violent tendencies, as he sees his victims and their severed hands as the only form of intimacy he can truly control.
Bateman, too, is deeply isolated, but his detachment is intellectual and existential. He struggles with the meaninglessness of his existence in a shallow, consumerist society. His detachment from reality becomes more pronounced as the novel progresses, and by the end, it is unclear whether his murders are real or a figment of his deteriorating mental state. Both characters’ isolation fuels their respective descents into madness and moral decay.
6. Lack of Remorse and Empathy
Both Kira and Bateman are characterized by a profound lack of empathy. Kira shows no remorse for his victims, treating them as mere objects in his pursuit of satisfaction. His desire for a quiet life supersedes any guilt he might feel for the lives he destroys. Similarly, Bateman is entirely disconnected from the humanity of his victims. He views people as disposable, reflecting the dehumanizing effects of his materialistic world. This lack of empathy highlights their psychopathic tendencies, allowing them to commit heinous acts without emotional consequences.
Conclusion
Yoshikage Kira and Patrick Bateman are both embodiments of the "civilized" sociopath, individuals who, on the surface, appear normal but harbor deeply violent, obsessive tendencies. Their dual lives, their obsession with control and perfection, and their emotional detachment make them disturbing yet fascinating characters. Both illustrate how dangerous and destructive a person can be when their inner darkness is hidden beneath a carefully constructed façade of normalcy.
The MC and main villain were such strong parts of the show. Not a lot of people liked Pucci because he wasn’t your typical goofy Jojo villain. He was arguably the best written villain for me though (as an anime only watcher). Jolyne is a great female MC as well which is extremely rare in any anime now that I think about it. It makes me adore the show more.
Sure! Lets put it this way....it truly goes
LMAO, now that would be "FUNNY" indeed! Even better if it happened on Valentine's Day somehow! Designate the day to be about that instead hahaha!
I keep Kira is based on Bowie ofc, its so damn obvious! Bowie meets Queen ofc.
Kakashikage Kira/Hokagekashi Kira/Yoshikage Kakashira or whatever be like:
full Roundabout! To be continued....hehehehe.
Kek honestly I wouldnt doubt it lol.
Dude I cant wait for you to read part 7 lol, Funny Valentine for president instead of either Biden or Harrislol.
Also the fact that Kira was inspired by this legend makes him even more awesome:
Dude I cant wait for you to read part 7 lol, Funny Valentine for president instead of either Biden or Harrislol.
Also the fact that Kira was inspired by this legend makes him even more awesome:
I keep Kira is based on Bowie ofc, its so damn obvious! Bowie meets Queen ofc.
Kakashikage Kira/Hokagekashi Kira/Yoshikage Kakashira or whatever be like:
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