General & Others One Piece story has become a consumer product rather than an actual story.
- Thread starter lee33
- Start date
"2. Pacing has literally become worse and worse with each passing arc where three of the longest arcs in One Piece happened in the past three arcs: Dressrosa, WCI and Wano. For context, Sabody Arch, Amazon Lily, Impel Down, Marine Ford, Ace/Luffy flashback COMBINED took less chapters and time than Wano alone. "
Ngl.
This is actually what pains me the most.
Ngl.
This is actually what pains me the most.
T
Pretty much every piece of media under capitalism is a consumer product. One piece is still pretty based though because underneath all the "nakama", "friendship" and other lame shonen tropes it's really a story about a retarded manchild whose quest for freedom pits him and his friends against the entire world order, a world order rules by a handful of slave drivers who are responsible for the world's wars, poverty, all social ills. Basically One Piece is really a story about an unfolding revolution which is more than can ever be expected from a Shonen so I'm all for it.
One piece isn't trash at all, you're probably just too stupid to enjoy it
One piece isn't trash at all, you're probably just too stupid to enjoy it
Pretty much every piece of media under capitalism is a consumer product. One piece is still pretty based though because underneath all the "nakama", "friendship" and other lame shonen tropes it's really a story about a retarded manchild whose quest for freedom pits him and his friends against the entire world order, a world order rules by a handful of slave drivers who are responsible for the world's wars, poverty, all social ills. Basically One Piece is really a story about an unfolding revolution which is more than can ever be expected from a Shonen so I'm all for it.
One piece isn't trash at all, you're probably just too stupid to enjoy it
One piece isn't trash at all, you're probably just too stupid to enjoy it
*(maybe Naruto a little bit but no where like One Piece).
This still doesn't explain how it makes it a "Consumer product with the sole purpose to make money".
With preskip, Oda broke his plot points that drive the narrative forward into many arcs. Post skip, he has condensed it down to lesser arcs, while in turn making the arcs longer.
For example, in Dressrosa, not only was the story about stopping Doflamingo, but also it was in order to establish the Grand Fleet. Had he removed the Grand fleet aspect of the Dressrosa arc it could have cut the arc length in half, but then he would have had to incorporate it into either another arc, or multiple smaller arcs. Perhaps even multiple 50+ chapter arcs in order to gather so many characters for the Grand Fleet. By combining that with the Dressrosa arc, he was able to gather all the characters at once, effectively cutting the overall story of One Piece down by a large margin.
Same thing with WCI. The arc was meant to setup Big Mom as a future antagonist, introduce the Germa 66 and whatever future plot points he has for them, finish up Jinbei's plotline with Big Mom, and get him to join the crew, and establish a Future plot point with Capone. It all became apparent once the arc was over. Oda could have done that with multiple different arcs, but by combining it all into one arc, it effectively cut the overall story of One Piece down by a large margin.
I'm sure Wano will be the same deal once everything is said and done, and we get a better understanding of all the plot points as we move into EoS.
If anything, Oda is doing the exact opposite of what you think he's doing because he's cramming so much content into single arcs, rather than spreading all of it out over the course of many arcs like he did preskip. If he followed the preskip formula, we wouldn't even be in Wano yet.
With preskip, Oda broke his plot points that drive the narrative forward into many arcs. Post skip, he has condensed it down to lesser arcs, while in turn making the arcs longer.
For example, in Dressrosa, not only was the story about stopping Doflamingo, but also it was in order to establish the Grand Fleet. Had he removed the Grand fleet aspect of the Dressrosa arc it could have cut the arc length in half, but then he would have had to incorporate it into either another arc, or multiple smaller arcs. Perhaps even multiple 50+ chapter arcs in order to gather so many characters for the Grand Fleet. By combining that with the Dressrosa arc, he was able to gather all the characters at once, effectively cutting the overall story of One Piece down by a large margin.
Same thing with WCI. The arc was meant to setup Big Mom as a future antagonist, introduce the Germa 66 and whatever future plot points he has for them, finish up Jinbei's plotline with Big Mom, and get him to join the crew, and establish a Future plot point with Capone. It all became apparent once the arc was over. Oda could have done that with multiple different arcs, but by combining it all into one arc, it effectively cut the overall story of One Piece down by a large margin.
I'm sure Wano will be the same deal once everything is said and done, and we get a better understanding of all the plot points as we move into EoS.
If anything, Oda is doing the exact opposite of what you think he's doing because he's cramming so much content into single arcs, rather than spreading all of it out over the course of many arcs like he did preskip. If he followed the preskip formula, we wouldn't even be in Wano yet.
Yes it does explain it! Oda is adding unnecessary shit to the story in order to extend it as long as possible. What was the point of Luffy taking five chapters to run up the stairs so that he can reach the top at the roof in chapter 1000? That was a MARKETING DECISION. That was NOT a story decision.
You obviously are having a really hard time understanding what bloated means.
So lets take your example, Dressrosa. Dressrosa was 102 chapters long. And lets take your example of building the grand fleet and compare it to something similar pretime skip which was Impel Down. Impel Down was 25 chapters and it build up a fleet of pirates in order to help with the war in Marine Ford. So lets do some subtracting 102-25 is 77. So what happened in those 77 extra chapters in Dressrosa? This is exactly what I mean by Oda bloating arcs unnecessary.
Again, lets use your example of WCI and compare it to to a similar arc that had similar events like Fishman Island. Fishman Island set up Big Mom as a future antagonist, got Jinbei to join the crew, introduced the Fihsman racism backstory with celestial dragon, provided info the void century via Joy Boy, provided info of Luffy returning back to Fishman ISland where he will end up destorying it, provided Posedion and more and that took all of 50 chapters. WCI was 80 chapters. So lets do some math again, 80-50 = 30. Even though Fishman ISland had way more info dump it still was less than 30 chapters than WCI. You are literally proving my point in your examples.
It won't, because Wano isn't ending until 2023 at the earliest.
You obviously are having a really hard time understanding what bloated means.
So lets take your example, Dressrosa. Dressrosa was 102 chapters long. And lets take your example of building the grand fleet and compare it to something similar pretime skip which was Impel Down. Impel Down was 25 chapters and it build up a fleet of pirates in order to help with the war in Marine Ford. So lets do some subtracting 102-25 is 77. So what happened in those 77 extra chapters in Dressrosa? This is exactly what I mean by Oda bloating arcs unnecessary.
Again, lets use your example of WCI and compare it to to a similar arc that had similar events like Fishman Island. Fishman Island set up Big Mom as a future antagonist, got Jinbei to join the crew, introduced the Fihsman racism backstory with celestial dragon, provided info the void century via Joy Boy, provided info of Luffy returning back to Fishman ISland where he will end up destorying it, provided Posedion and more and that took all of 50 chapters. WCI was 80 chapters. So lets do some math again, 80-50 = 30. Even though Fishman ISland had way more info dump it still was less than 30 chapters than WCI. You are literally proving my point in your examples.
It won't, because Wano isn't ending until 2023 at the earliest.
Who are you to say what is and what isn't necessary?
You're joking right? Oda has done this with Luffy, literally Every. Single. Arc. Pre-skip, Post-skip, doesn't matter, it happens all the time. Quit acting like this is something new, or acting like other stuff isn't happening in that time frame, like it's just Luffy running up stairs and that's it.
I know what bloated means, and I also know what kind of formula and writing style that I've been subjected to with One Piece since I started reading it weekly over 15 years ago. Oda likes his World to feel alive, and to draw scenes outside of just the main protagonists, and to make sure every single character he introduces every arc to have some importance to the story, no matter how little it is. Again, this is not something new. He's been doing it for decades.
People like to bitch and complain about the "Tama plot", but guess what? It's necessary for the story to make taking down an Emperor of the Sea with 30,000 troops under their command believable. You don't hype up a specific group of characters (The Yonko) for decades, and then have the protagonists run into their territory with a handful of allies and have them magically take one of them down like it's no big deal.
He brought out the full force of the Marines and half the Shichibukai just to take down one of these guys who was sick and dying, but don't worry, throw the Straw Hats a few ninja's, samurais, and Minks, and they're good to go to take two of them down, amiright?
Maybe Oda should just have Luffy go the fairy tale route and him run in there with the power of friendship on his side, or the Naruto route make him so strong he can solo everyone on Onigashima. That'd be much, much better right? Get rid of all that bloated unnecessary fluff that he puts in there to make the story of going up against not one, but two Yonkos believable.
Two situations, not even remotely comparable. With Impel Down, the common goal between Luffy and everyone else in Impel Down was straight forward and easy. Everyone of those guys wanted to escape the nightmarish prison. There is no legwork there that needs to be done.
That's a hell of a lot different than gathering a group of people on a single island who don't know each other, and establishing a connection between all of them in order to make them allies for life. Again, we are going for believability here.
You starting to get the concept of believability? So then pray tell, how you can compare the Straw Hats as a collective group going into Fishman Island and wrapping that up in 50 chapters, to 4 of the Straw Hats invading a Yonko's territory, and wrapping it up in the same amount of time? WCI already suffers from us as the readers having to massively suspend our disbelief in order for it to have been pulled off despite all the "bloated" (as you put it) content written into it, and you think it could have been done with 30 or less chapters than it already was?
Perhaps you should go read Toriko and see what happens when all the "bloated" content is removed from a story. I love that series, and the entire last half of it ended up being one of the most unsatisfying experiences I've ever had to endure. Wave after wave of nothing but info dump, with no solid build-up for any of it.
If that's the type of story you like to read, then to each his own, but quite acting like you have it all figured out with your constant "IT'S ALL ONE BIG MARKETING PLOY" crusade that we have to sit through week in and week out. The fact of the matter is that Oda isn't doing anything now that he hasn't been doing for decades. The only difference is now is that the stakes are higher so more subsistence is added in order to make the story more believable. I like it. Countless other people like it. You and other people don't. Personal preferences are a bitch.
You're joking right? Oda has done this with Luffy, literally Every. Single. Arc. Pre-skip, Post-skip, doesn't matter, it happens all the time. Quit acting like this is something new, or acting like other stuff isn't happening in that time frame, like it's just Luffy running up stairs and that's it.
I know what bloated means, and I also know what kind of formula and writing style that I've been subjected to with One Piece since I started reading it weekly over 15 years ago. Oda likes his World to feel alive, and to draw scenes outside of just the main protagonists, and to make sure every single character he introduces every arc to have some importance to the story, no matter how little it is. Again, this is not something new. He's been doing it for decades.
People like to bitch and complain about the "Tama plot", but guess what? It's necessary for the story to make taking down an Emperor of the Sea with 30,000 troops under their command believable. You don't hype up a specific group of characters (The Yonko) for decades, and then have the protagonists run into their territory with a handful of allies and have them magically take one of them down like it's no big deal.
He brought out the full force of the Marines and half the Shichibukai just to take down one of these guys who was sick and dying, but don't worry, throw the Straw Hats a few ninja's, samurais, and Minks, and they're good to go to take two of them down, amiright?
Maybe Oda should just have Luffy go the fairy tale route and him run in there with the power of friendship on his side, or the Naruto route make him so strong he can solo everyone on Onigashima. That'd be much, much better right? Get rid of all that bloated unnecessary fluff that he puts in there to make the story of going up against not one, but two Yonkos believable.
Two situations, not even remotely comparable. With Impel Down, the common goal between Luffy and everyone else in Impel Down was straight forward and easy. Everyone of those guys wanted to escape the nightmarish prison. There is no legwork there that needs to be done.
That's a hell of a lot different than gathering a group of people on a single island who don't know each other, and establishing a connection between all of them in order to make them allies for life. Again, we are going for believability here.
You starting to get the concept of believability? So then pray tell, how you can compare the Straw Hats as a collective group going into Fishman Island and wrapping that up in 50 chapters, to 4 of the Straw Hats invading a Yonko's territory, and wrapping it up in the same amount of time? WCI already suffers from us as the readers having to massively suspend our disbelief in order for it to have been pulled off despite all the "bloated" (as you put it) content written into it, and you think it could have been done with 30 or less chapters than it already was?
Perhaps you should go read Toriko and see what happens when all the "bloated" content is removed from a story. I love that series, and the entire last half of it ended up being one of the most unsatisfying experiences I've ever had to endure. Wave after wave of nothing but info dump, with no solid build-up for any of it.
If that's the type of story you like to read, then to each his own, but quite acting like you have it all figured out with your constant "IT'S ALL ONE BIG MARKETING PLOY" crusade that we have to sit through week in and week out. The fact of the matter is that Oda isn't doing anything now that he hasn't been doing for decades. The only difference is now is that the stakes are higher so more subsistence is added in order to make the story more believable. I like it. Countless other people like it. You and other people don't. Personal preferences are a bitch.
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There are definitely times when One Piece has a consumer aspect to it.
That being said when Oda choses to give Raizo a one on one fight instead off the much more popular Carrot, it shows that he still writes the story the way he wants to. Same goes for the Sun God Nika plotline, Oda came up with this plotline because it is important not because some corporate board told him to write Sun God Nika into the story LOL.
That being said when Oda choses to give Raizo a one on one fight instead off the much more popular Carrot, it shows that he still writes the story the way he wants to. Same goes for the Sun God Nika plotline, Oda came up with this plotline because it is important not because some corporate board told him to write Sun God Nika into the story LOL.
Time to exit lurking stage to defend the multi million dollar manga franchise.
People need to stop trying to associate poorly written material with some deeper conspiracy to generate money and be nothing more than a corporate product especially a product like OP which is near its end and had a rough outline for the emperor storyline before the warlords and before the series even got an anime announcement. It wasn't because he expected to write this for over 20+ years but he always flesh out his arcs to the fullest. Its why alabasta was more than intended or water 7. Wano and post ts arcs are no different and its simply for the reason that he actually likes the story hes writing and want to tell as much as possible knowing he wont get a chance to in this unique setting and characters he created. Obviously that's not enough to be a quality story but your saying that its just some cash grab because its poorly told but still makes money. Trying to play this sell out narrative for the most mentally and physically draining job an artist can do because you believe the arcs aren't as strong as before is pretty dumb. Its as dumb and blind as those who believe that Oda planned every plotline out from the beginning. You need to start understanding there's a difference between being passionate about something compared to being competent. You can still be passionate about making something and it ends up like shit Just look at Naruto Wano is clearly a passionate arc with tons of jank to its storytelling. Quit trying to spin its short comings with your highschool tier capitalism narrative. Its a delusional mentality that people need to grow out of if they want to seriously critique stories. Ill create a follow up for you talking points later Im taking a nap
People need to stop trying to associate poorly written material with some deeper conspiracy to generate money and be nothing more than a corporate product especially a product like OP which is near its end and had a rough outline for the emperor storyline before the warlords and before the series even got an anime announcement. It wasn't because he expected to write this for over 20+ years but he always flesh out his arcs to the fullest. Its why alabasta was more than intended or water 7. Wano and post ts arcs are no different and its simply for the reason that he actually likes the story hes writing and want to tell as much as possible knowing he wont get a chance to in this unique setting and characters he created. Obviously that's not enough to be a quality story but your saying that its just some cash grab because its poorly told but still makes money. Trying to play this sell out narrative for the most mentally and physically draining job an artist can do because you believe the arcs aren't as strong as before is pretty dumb. Its as dumb and blind as those who believe that Oda planned every plotline out from the beginning. You need to start understanding there's a difference between being passionate about something compared to being competent. You can still be passionate about making something and it ends up like shit Just look at Naruto Wano is clearly a passionate arc with tons of jank to its storytelling. Quit trying to spin its short comings with your highschool tier capitalism narrative. Its a delusional mentality that people need to grow out of if they want to seriously critique stories. Ill create a follow up for you talking points later Im taking a nap