Character Discussion Overall thoughts on Vegapunk?
- Thread starter DarkWitch
- Start date
Was expecting this
Got this
Got this
I've said this before, Shaka is who Vegapunk should've been.
Based on descriptions, silhoutte, prior statements/implications of persona etc.
I would guess Oda knew this, hence the initial tease of Shaka seemingly being the real Vegapunk. To be replaced by a goofy clown, cause "subvert expectations" amirite
KEK
there is a Vegapunk that literally has the title "evil"
so ofc Vegapunk did evil things too, that's the point of his character and why we got the 6 satellites xd
every baby can realize that Oda followed some certain rules with the nature of Vegapunk's character and that's what makes this characterwriting so good xd
so ofc Vegapunk did evil things too, that's the point of his character and why we got the 6 satellites xd
every baby can realize that Oda followed some certain rules with the nature of Vegapunk's character and that's what makes this characterwriting so good xd
Vegapunk was not in charge of those experiments, Ceasar was.
And the Seraphim don't have a conscience, Oda clearly showed that. They are machines. Their behaviors are automatizations. They don't have """free will""" and they do not think.
Trust me, before defending Vegapunk, I made sure of that, because at the beginning of the Arc, I was not liking the guys. But since the Seraphim never displayed any form of conscious behavior (and no, little Hancock being surprised or shy is not a conscious behavior but an automatization due to her Hancock lineage) you can relax on this.
Vegapunk never did something very problematic. At least that's what I remember from the story, maybe I missed something.
But EVEN if it was the case, I did not say I agree with the guy. I think his lack of care for his action is very problematic and a symptom of people who play with scientific fire. I'm not defending him, I'm saying that this is a very interesting character.
Don't put moral into this. You can find a monster interesting and it has nothing to do with sharing his values.
But in this case, I see no reasons to really blame Vegapunk aside the fact that he his flawed like many humans.
And the Seraphim don't have a conscience, Oda clearly showed that. They are machines. Their behaviors are automatizations. They don't have """free will""" and they do not think.
Trust me, before defending Vegapunk, I made sure of that, because at the beginning of the Arc, I was not liking the guys. But since the Seraphim never displayed any form of conscious behavior (and no, little Hancock being surprised or shy is not a conscious behavior but an automatization due to her Hancock lineage) you can relax on this.
Vegapunk never did something very problematic. At least that's what I remember from the story, maybe I missed something.
But EVEN if it was the case, I did not say I agree with the guy. I think his lack of care for his action is very problematic and a symptom of people who play with scientific fire. I'm not defending him, I'm saying that this is a very interesting character.
Don't put moral into this. You can find a monster interesting and it has nothing to do with sharing his values.
But in this case, I see no reasons to really blame Vegapunk aside the fact that he his flawed like many humans.
Read it in Reddit
Every Time Vegapunk Was Dumb or Evil (And It’s Even Worse Than You Think)
Discussion
EVIL
In summary, Vegabum is NOT a case of "he is book smart/wise but not street smart/clever". It's not the typical case of a smart guy with zero social skills. He is just dumb (and evil), making decisions that make no logical sense (reasoning should be Vegapunk's greatest strength). Oda has proven he cannot write a genius character and that he is too used to getting away with an idiot plot. Vegapunk, hyped for over 20 years, has to be one of the most poorly written characters in the entire story.
Every Time Vegapunk Was Dumb or Evil (And It’s Even Worse Than You Think)
Discussion
EVIL
- Worked for MADS alongside Cesar, Judge and Queen
- Stella acknowledges that the Celestial Dragons are evil (1078) yet has no problem receiving a paycheck and funding from them. He would have collaborated with the Nazis if they had allowed him to advance technology, as if technology were neutral and not shaped by external interests
- Invented weapons for an organization he acknowledges as evil. He is directly responsible for genocide
- Outright lies to the world about not knowing who was responsible for the Lulusia genocide, as confirmed in 1123
- Created literal child soldier clones with limited free will, again to serve the WG. Why didn't Nika, the warrior of liberation, call him out for that? What makes him better than Caesar or Judge?
- Put the SHs in danger to test the Seraphim fighting capabilities and get new data
- Put the lives of Sentomaru (+ emotional blackmail), Stussy, every researcher on Egghead and the Straw Hats in jeopardy for no reason, if he was convinced he had to die as claimed in 1123
- Bro forgot to check if he was being spied on when he was still settling on Egghead, which led to Kuma and Bonney suffering a tragic fate
- Lilith tried to steal from a Yonko crew, believing she could deal with the SHs
- Asked Luffy to take him off the island (1067) for no reason if he believed he had to die
- Created satellite clones, some based on negative traits, only a fool would let his greed run amok as vp says (1123)
- Allowed York to steal part of the Mother Flame that powered Uranus, leading to the destruction of Lulusia
- Erased his memory instead of arresting or eliminating York. That wouldn't have had any negative consequences, given that the WG was already coming after him. Instead, by killing or capturing York, Vegapunk could have had leverage to negotiate with the WG or deprived them of an asset that could enable the creation of more weapons of mass destruction. The deaths of several satellites wouldn't have occurred if York had been killed or captured
- Relied on a "plan" that made no sense, much less without the luck of the SH crew showing up
- Why didn't he broadcast the message before dying? If he was going to be chased and killed anyway, why would he wait to be killed under uncertain circumstances to broadcast the message, risking the message being interrupted (as it ended up happening)?
- If he knew WG agents were coming after him, why would he wait on Egghead instead of fleeing before they arrived? Again, he could have just killed or imprisoned York, broadcast the message, and fled when there were no enemies around.
- Why didn't Vegapunk tell the world the most important thing he had to say and knew by that time—that the WG is evil?
- If he wanted to die, why resist or why didn't he want Luffy or Sanji to move him after Saturn stabbed him, when he says he knew he would die from bleeding if he was moved (1107)?
- As Brook once said, what kind of fool regards his own death as part of a plan?
In summary, Vegabum is NOT a case of "he is book smart/wise but not street smart/clever". It's not the typical case of a smart guy with zero social skills. He is just dumb (and evil), making decisions that make no logical sense (reasoning should be Vegapunk's greatest strength). Oda has proven he cannot write a genius character and that he is too used to getting away with an idiot plot. Vegapunk, hyped for over 20 years, has to be one of the most poorly written characters in the entire story.
This.
It's Oda's fault for keeping a lab rat like this as some big mystery character who is running the world. Once again, Oda's addiction to silhouettes and fake hype/mysteries resulted in a massive disappointment.
Oda could have shown us Vegapunk ages ago, what tf did Oda think hiding this character even does? Oh yea....building fake hype and getting people talking.
It's Oda's fault for keeping a lab rat like this as some big mystery character who is running the world. Once again, Oda's addiction to silhouettes and fake hype/mysteries resulted in a massive disappointment.
Oda could have shown us Vegapunk ages ago, what tf did Oda think hiding this character even does? Oh yea....building fake hype and getting people talking.
I just don't understand the memory wipe thing...how did it minimise anything when they recovered most of it instantly by reading the paper they wrote for themselves ?
How is anyone supposed to root for Vegapunk when all he did for years was helping kill, enslave and not care about anything but his little belly button.
No one cares he created clones of himself but somehow it's the only thing that bothered him so if he hadn't been betrayed he would have continued producing weapons for the WG ?
I'm guessing Oda wanted to convey the same thing he did with Cutty Flam, ie. Weapons are neutral and only the people using them can have morality which is fair, but Franky did it for himself, VP did it for an evil organisation and cannot be surprised, they used them for bad stuff...somehow he was surprised though 😵
How is anyone supposed to root for Vegapunk when all he did for years was helping kill, enslave and not care about anything but his little belly button.
No one cares he created clones of himself but somehow it's the only thing that bothered him so if he hadn't been betrayed he would have continued producing weapons for the WG ?
I'm guessing Oda wanted to convey the same thing he did with Cutty Flam, ie. Weapons are neutral and only the people using them can have morality which is fair, but Franky did it for himself, VP did it for an evil organisation and cannot be surprised, they used them for bad stuff...somehow he was surprised though 😵
T
If they did not erase the memory York would have know where the snail is and that Vegapunk planned to broadcast what he found out.
Vegapunk is neutral. He does not care (that much) what the WG does as long as he gets to persue knowledge.
He did not even care for the WGs own rules and tried to find out about VC.
He could not have done so much research without the WGs resources so he kind of needed them.
VP did not give the WG the mother flame. It got stolen/misused.
Its an analogy to Einsteins research leading to the atomic bombs.
Vegapunk is neutral. He does not care (that much) what the WG does as long as he gets to persue knowledge.
He did not even care for the WGs own rules and tried to find out about VC.
He could not have done so much research without the WGs resources so he kind of needed them.
VP did not give the WG the mother flame. It got stolen/misused.
Its an analogy to Einsteins research leading to the atomic bombs.
Same thoughts.
I expected someone much seriously and dangerously on the thin line of morally gray
Weighting morality and technological advancement.
Vegapunk is just a nice guy scientist, with short understand of long term consequences, he creates something, but don't put much stock on how it can be abused
I expected someone much seriously and dangerously on the thin line of morally gray
Weighting morality and technological advancement.
Vegapunk is just a nice guy scientist, with short understand of long term consequences, he creates something, but don't put much stock on how it can be abused
York can’t know anything if she’s dead or imprisoned, so that excuse doesn’t work. In fact, end her beforehand would save so much trouble and prevent the WG from having her power their genocide weapon.
Vegapunk himself was lamenting the destruction of Lulusia and begged for forgiveness, so clearly he wasn’t neutral in that regard.
If pursuing knowledge was his desire, then obviously the WG should be evil in relation to him since they planned to kill him for that…yet he still didn’t call them out.
Oda just made a mess by trying to incorporate contradictory traits into the character. It’s partly to avoid throwing shade on the Strawhats for associating with him, but he can’t have it both ways.
He couldn’t even have the Strawhats hold him accountable for the terrible parts of his character.
Vegapunk himself was lamenting the destruction of Lulusia and begged for forgiveness, so clearly he wasn’t neutral in that regard.
If pursuing knowledge was his desire, then obviously the WG should be evil in relation to him since they planned to kill him for that…yet he still didn’t call them out.
Oda just made a mess by trying to incorporate contradictory traits into the character. It’s partly to avoid throwing shade on the Strawhats for associating with him, but he can’t have it both ways.
He couldn’t even have the Strawhats hold him accountable for the terrible parts of his character.
